Welcome Jrue Holiday! (Signs Extension: 4yrs/$135M)

[Parliament10]

Pairing these two as opposed to Tatum/White is awesome of course. But I still think we need Holiday out there with the Jaylen lineups.

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Totally Agree. Brown needs Jrue.
Tatum can do it with White, and even Pritchard for stints.

[hugepatsfan]

I'm also telling you that I don't disagree with you about the addition of KP having an impact.

This debate didn't start with much better chance at winning a title, this debate started because I said Smart should've become what Jrue holiday is today.

What I said was the Celtics, when they drafted Smart in 2014, they envisioned him of becoming what Jrue Holiday is today.

That's it!

Nothing to do with clutch, with teammates, etc.

Players fail to reach their pre-draft projections for a variety of reasons. The main one being draft prognosticators get **** wrong all the time. He's not that skilled of a scorer or elite a playmaker to become an all-star. Like I said earlier, high-level role player.

DPOY, multiple all-defense team, starting PG of a Finals team is not too shabby on a resume though.

Yeah, but the Celts didn't draft him because he was considered a high-level role player.

The Celts were a lottery team at that time and wanted the best player available.

So no, if you're saying that the Celts drafted him because they believe he's a high-level role player then that's simply not true.

Check all the articles back in 2014 and there's nothing there that said the Celts drafted Smart because they believed he's a "high-level role player".

I watched the coverage of that 2014 Draft and what the analysts said was Smart just needed to improve his shooting because he has the tools needed to become a star in the NBA.

Best player available isn’t always a star though. Look at the 2014 draft. Jokic obviously was best available but he wasn’t realistically a top of the draft talent at the time. Randle and LaVine have better numbers than Smart but both also have stats on bad/mediocre team tendencies vs truly star players.

[hugepatsfan]

Let's also not make up facts.

The Celtics NEVER asked Smart to do too much.

Smart is the one who always tries to do too much.

Take the case of Game 7 of the east finals in Miami, 2022.

You really think Udoka intentionally drew up a play for Smart to shoot the ball with 22 seconds left and the Celts leading by 2, 98-96?
Smart went off script and tried to win the game by himself by driving to the hoop and missing and getting the offensive rebound and missing again.
But Smart was saved because Jimmy missed the potential game winning 3.

If Jimmy made that 3 and the Cs lost, Smart was the reason why.

How about in Game 6 of last season's east finals, in Miami?
Didn't Smart take the last shot and was saved by White's miraculous putback as time expired?
Why on earth is Smart taking the last shot of potential season ending games?

So no, it's absolutely false when you say Smart is being asked to do too much.

Game 7 2022, the Heat are in a zone, everyone is covered with no cutting lane, and the middle is empty. With 6 seconds left, Marcus drove into the middle as he should. Tatum made the mistake of running to where Jaylen is standing, allowing Strus to cut off the passing angles to both.
Game 6 2023, Jaylen Brown decided the thing the Celtics really needed down 1 in an elimination game was for him to post up Bam Adebayo. Smart had to shoot.

You notice everyone else covered except Smart?

That's not a coincidence, that's by design!

The conundrum with Smart is that he was a weak enough shooter/scorer that other teams are right to leave him open but at the same time he was a respectable enough shooter/scorer that for the offense to flow you need him to take the open looks he’s given. An open Smart 3 isn’t the best play but it’s a good enough play that it doesn’t make sense to pass it up as time is running out. Other teams played to that.

[165bows]

Game 7 2022, the Heat are in a zone, everyone is covered with no cutting lane, and the middle is empty. With 6 seconds left, Marcus drove into the middle as he should. Tatum made the mistake of running to where Jaylen is standing, allowing Strus to cut off the passing angles to both.
Game 6 2023, Jaylen Brown decided the thing the Celtics really needed down 1 in an elimination game was for him to post up Bam Adebayo. Smart had to shoot.

You notice everyone else covered except Smart?

That's not a coincidence, that's by design!

The conundrum with Smart is that he was a weak enough shooter/scorer that other teams are right to leave him open but at the same time he was a respectable enough shooter/scorer that for the offense to flow you need him to take the open looks he’s given. An open Smart 3 isn’t the best play but it’s a good enough play that it doesn’t make sense to pass it up as time is running out. Other teams played to that.

Yeah 100%. One thing I’d add for me is he was streaky enough I always thought he might have a Ron Artest/Lakers hot streak at the right time in him.

Maybe still will some day but getting later in the game unfortunately.

[Fierce1]

Players fail to reach their pre-draft projections for a variety of reasons. The main one being draft prognosticators get **** wrong all the time. He's not that skilled of a scorer or elite a playmaker to become an all-star. Like I said earlier, high-level role player.

DPOY, multiple all-defense team, starting PG of a Finals team is not too shabby on a resume though.

Yeah, but the Celts didn't draft him because he was considered a high-level role player.

The Celts were a lottery team at that time and wanted the best player available.

So no, if you're saying that the Celts drafted him because they believe he's a high-level role player then that's simply not true.

Check all the articles back in 2014 and there's nothing there that said the Celts drafted Smart because they believed he's a "high-level role player".

I watched the coverage of that 2014 Draft and what the analysts said was Smart just needed to improve his shooting because he has the tools needed to become a star in the NBA.

Best player available isn’t always a star though. Look at the 2014 draft. Jokic obviously was best available but he wasn’t realistically a top of the draft talent at the time. Randle and LaVine have better numbers than Smart but both also have stats on bad/mediocre team tendencies vs truly star players.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is the Cs never said they drafted Smart because he's going to be a high level role player.

The Cs viewed Smart as more than just a role player when they drafted him.

[Curmudgeon]

I like the way Jrue has learned to anticipate Jaylen Brown's airballs, so Jrue is in position to catch them under the rim.

[Lalouie]

On both sides of the court?

Offense and defense. I'm assuming that's what he meant.

He's much better than Smart on defense?

EXPLAINED!!! as you can assume i'm a big jrue fan. bestest good guy dude from a good family and upbringing. he had a rep for defense wayyy back in high school, and that is a rare thing. howland was a D coach (too bad howland and jrue had a parting of ways) jrue has loved and been loved at every stop. he's lucky that mil done him good and that the celts got him

the celts have a very good person - he's one of the good guys

Watch on YouTube

[shackles10]

Offense and defense. I'm assuming that's what he meant.

He's much better than Smart on defense?

EXPLAINED!!! as you can assume i'm a big jrue fan. bestest good guy dude from a good family and upbringing. he had a rep for defense wayyy back in high school, and that is a rare thing. howland was a D coach (too bad howland and jrue had a parting of ways) jrue has loved and been loved at every stop. he's lucky that mil done him good and that the celts got him

the celts have a very good person - he's one of the good guys

Watch on YouTube

Great video in a lot of ways. Slightly OT, but I especially liked the part about the media not actually watching games. So many seem to just be good writers (I guess) and just comment on and piggy back off another story that's already gaining attention. They aren't really adding anything new, it's just in their words now, instead of actually providing in depth information like a player or coach can yet those are the guys we're asking to vote on awards because it's like it's recognition for them being a "good writer". I feel sports writing is moving away from that and it's creating smarter fans as well.

[Hal14]

He's much better than Smart on defense?

EXPLAINED!!! as you can assume i'm a big jrue fan. bestest good guy dude from a good family and upbringing. he had a rep for defense wayyy back in high school, and that is a rare thing. howland was a D coach (too bad howland and jrue had a parting of ways) jrue has loved and been loved at every stop. he's lucky that mil done him good and that the celts got him

the celts have a very good person - he's one of the good guys

Watch on YouTube

Great video in a lot of ways. Slightly OT, but I especially liked the part about the media not actually watching games. So many seem to just be good writers (I guess) and just comment on and piggy back off another story that's already gaining attention. They aren't really adding anything new, it's just in their words now, instead of actually providing in depth information like a player or coach can yet those are the guys we're asking to vote on awards because it's like it's recognition for them being a "good writer". I feel sports writing is moving away from that and it's creating smarter fans as well.

I agree. But I kind of feel like part of it might be because these people like Jay Williams, Stephen A, Skip, Perk, Magic Johnson, Barkley, etc. They're so damn famous and rich that they live the celebrity life style, going to all these parties making appearances at events, going on TV, traveling around the country. So they're crazy busy.

Meanwhile there's thousands (maybe millions) of these basketball nerds like us and many others who either don't have a job, are living a boring regular person's life with a 9-5 job, are just a college kid or just working at a pizza shop or something so us normal people have more time on our hands to watch lots of games. And we have less money than these rich people so we just stay home watching hoops instead of traveling the world, going to crazy parties, buying fancy stuff.

[shackles10]

EXPLAINED!!! as you can assume i'm a big jrue fan. bestest good guy dude from a good family and upbringing. he had a rep for defense wayyy back in high school, and that is a rare thing. howland was a D coach (too bad howland and jrue had a parting of ways) jrue has loved and been loved at every stop. he's lucky that mil done him good and that the celts got him

the celts have a very good person - he's one of the good guys

Watch on YouTube

Great video in a lot of ways. Slightly OT, but I especially liked the part about the media not actually watching games. So many seem to just be good writers (I guess) and just comment on and piggy back off another story that's already gaining attention. They aren't really adding anything new, it's just in their words now, instead of actually providing in depth information like a player or coach can yet those are the guys we're asking to vote on awards because it's like it's recognition for them being a "good writer". I feel sports writing is moving away from that and it's creating smarter fans as well.

I agree. But I kind of feel like part of it might be because these people like Jay Williams, Stephen A, Skip, Perk, Magic Johnson, Barkley, etc. They're so damn famous and rich that they live the celebrity life style, going to all these parties making appearances at events, going on TV, traveling around the country. So they're crazy busy.

Meanwhile there's thousands (maybe millions) of these basketball nerds like us and many others who either don't have a job, are living a boring regular person's life with a 9-5 job, are just a college kid or just working at a pizza shop or something so us normal people have more time on our hands to watch lots of games. And we have less money than these rich people so we just stay home watching hoops instead of traveling the world, going to crazy parties, buying fancy stuff.

Fair and good points about the national guys and celebrity lifestyle. With YouTube, Twitter, and Podcasts it seems like everyone is on them so those basketball nerds have a voice and are now getting views and likes. The gap is shrinking at least and whether Steven A realizes it or not (probably not) fans want more basketball nerdism and less talking heads because fans are smarter in general now and that's what they want. There'll always be a place for the loud voice, pretty face, or known name, but regardless of what you think of Zach Lowe can you imagine him being on a national NBA halftime show even 10 years ago? lol. Our own Smitty even worked his way up with his love of the game and not because he latched on to a popular player a la Windhorst or Steven A before making his own name. I think as that gap shrinks even more, and voices saying mistakes were made and guys like Jrue deserve recognition the product and voting will get better as well.

[Parasite]

Jrue is the definition of “professional”. Such a breath of fresh air around here.

[Lalouie]

Great video in a lot of ways. Slightly OT, but I especially liked the part about the media not actually watching games. So many seem to just be good writers (I guess) and just comment on and piggy back off another story that's already gaining attention. They aren't really adding anything new, it's just in their words now, instead of actually providing in depth information like a player or coach can yet those are the guys we're asking to vote on awards because it's like it's recognition for them being a "good writer". I feel sports writing is moving away from that and it's creating smarter fans as well.

I agree. But I kind of feel like part of it might be because these people like Jay Williams, Stephen A, Skip, Perk, Magic Johnson, Barkley, etc. They're so damn famous and rich that they live the celebrity life style, going to all these parties making appearances at events, going on TV, traveling around the country. So they're crazy busy.

Meanwhile there's thousands (maybe millions) of these basketball nerds like us and many others who either don't have a job, are living a boring regular person's life with a 9-5 job, are just a college kid or just working at a pizza shop or something so us normal people have more time on our hands to watch lots of games. And we have less money than these rich people so we just stay home watching hoops instead of traveling the world, going to crazy parties, buying fancy stuff.

Fair and good points about the national guys and celebrity lifestyle. With YouTube, Twitter, and Podcasts it seems like everyone is on them so those basketball nerds have a voice and are now getting views and likes. The gap is shrinking at least and whether Steven A realizes it or not (probably not) fans want more basketball nerdism and less talking heads because fans are smarter in general now and that's what they want. There'll always be a place for the loud voice, pretty face, or known name, but regardless of what you think of Zach Lowe can you imagine him being on a national NBA halftime show even 10 years ago? lol. Our own Smitty even worked his way up with his love of the game and not because he latched on to a popular player a la Windhorst or Steven A before making his own name. I think as that gap shrinks even more, and voices saying mistakes were made and guys like Jrue deserve recognition the product and voting will get better as well.

to me the most obvious dichotomy of nerd/pro insight to national celebrity is how jj has or does change from
"old manand 3" JJ to espn talking head JJ.

when the cameras are on, as a celeb you have to sell. i think fer instance,,,lowe is too nerdy for TV. what he has to say is boring as sh***. tnt otoh IS ALL about selling. i dont follow all these guy enough to know if they turn it off and on. this convo twixt jj and kd is a quiet conversation of sharing - put them in front of a camera on espn and i wonder how they would express themselves then. they have limited time, commercials,,,and prolly follow a scripted outline. on this pod they have time and they can follow wherever the convo leads

part of it is who their audience is. on espn the general public wants the cliff's notes. if you're not engaging the eyes will go to fs1 and watch first things first or speak, which personally,,,i like

[zoyathedestroya]

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[GoCeltics123]

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[ConstableGeneva]

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[ConstableGeneva]

I liked this interview. Jrue seems to be a genuine, kind-hearted, team-first, competitive guy.

Watch on YouTube

[BleedGreen1989]

I liked this interview. Jrue seems to be a genuine, kind-hearted, team-first, competitive guy.

Watch on YouTube

Yup. There's a reason he's won "Teammate of the Year" 3 of the last 4 seasons.

[timpiker]

I was so upset when Marcus was traded. But, to have Jrue is truly a blessing. I cannot think of 1 player in the whole league that I would rather have in that spot.

[TheSheriff]

I liked this interview. Jrue seems to be a genuine, kind-hearted, team-first, competitive guy.

Watch on YouTube

Yup. There's a reason he's won "Teammate of the Year" 3 of the last 4 seasons.

He truly has sacrificed shots more than anyone else on this team. Yet I have not seen any frustration or complaints. Former score first point guards can be a huge asset if they are willing to put the team first (thinking Tiny Archibald and DJ).

[ConstableGeneva]

I don't know when it will happen or if it ever will, but I hope we have Jrue handle the ball more at some point. Right now, it's kind of understandable that they're easing him in as he may not be familiar with the offensive sets we've been running the past few years but I feel his playmaking is being severely under-utilized. His main value on the team right now is being the free safety defender and disruptor Joe asks him to be. On offense, he doesn't already get enough shots (which is totally fine). But look at the huge drop in his assist % -- went from 34.4% as the primary ballhandler on the Bucks to 18.9% as maybe the 5th ballhandler behind White, Tatum, Brown, and Pritchard.

Cs seem really intent on pushing JB as the primary playmaker on non-Tatum units. His assist % is about the same as last season even with the added onball responsibility. His assist:usage ratio is the 2nd worst on the team ahead of Porzingis. Pritchard, to me, is better off as a shooting/spotup guard. White can do whatever you ask of him. His two-man game with Tatum though is a gift that keeps on giving. We're winning so it's hard to complain.

But yeah, more onball Jrue please in the future as he gets familiar with everyone's game/spots. (He'd be better at it than Brogdon was last season.) I also wonder that if privately he's not satisfied with his current role. He's such a good teammate that you probably won't hear him complain but these things factor in when he makes his extension decision in the offseason.