Welcome to Boston, Jaden Springer!

[Hal14]

No need to bring DWhite into this, who was a known quality quantity coming to BOS.

That's besides the point.

Point is, we didn't see the real Derrick until after he had a full offseason and full training camp with the team. Before that, he struggled offensively - was pretty much afraid to shoot the basketball.

We've seen a massive difference between Derrick during his first 25 (or so) games with Boston compared to Derrick after his 1st 25 or so games in Boston. So it's a little bit silly to be so critical of a guy after only playing 38 minutes (all garbage time) for Boston, after being acquired mid-season and coming off an injury.

But keep it simple and look at the two guys acquired at the deadline this year:
Xavier Tillman and he has come in, carved out a role, and is posting some great advanced stats, e.g., W/S per 48 of 0.18, BPM 0.7 (1.8 defensively), TS% of 0.65(!), and PER of 14.8 in 7 games (108 minutes) with Boston. He is 25.2 years old.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tillmxa01.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced

Jaden Springer has come in, looked like Rick Fox with his hair grown out a bit (this intrigues me, I loved BOS Rick Fox), and shown nothing yet. Nine games, just 38 minutes, and he's putting up a *negative* WS/48 (-0.15), a BPM of -16.3 (lol; 'only' -2.1 defensively:), a TS% of 0.27 (ack), and a *negative* PER, that value is -2.2. My friend, newly reformed so as to be less combative, those numbers -- while garbage time, and few -- are pure butt cheeks.

Those numbers are pretty much meaningless on such a small sample size of games and minutes.

So one of them has gotten up to speed quicker than the other. Ok? That's simply stating the obvious. No one on here (or anywhere) has ever claimed Springer is better than Tillman, so posting these numbers isn't very productive.

Of course the guy who is 4 years older, has much more NBA experience and much more playoff experience is going to be better. Does this really need to be said?

It's pointless imo to post a bunch of advanced stats for a guy who has played in only 9 games and a measly 4 minutes per game with literally all of those mins being garbage time. Yes, I consider the wizards game garbage time. Both teams were resting half their team (C's missing 3 starters, Wizards resting all 5 starters) and the C's were up by like 28 before Springer went in the game.

Of course Tillman's numbers will be better. He's actually played with starters and has played a good chunk of mins alongside our other top 8 guys, whereas Springer has mostly just played with our 3rd stringers.

Just because Tillman has started off well early on his Celtics career, it doesn't change the fact that other role players who have been added to the team recently did not start off so well but eventually played much better. You've got White, Kornet, Hauser, Brissett as I mentioned in my previous post. But also Grant (missed his first 25 threes but ended up being a 40% 3 pt shooter. Nesmith (we gave up on him when he was only like 22 but then he ends up being an awesome 3&D guy in Indy. After we acquired him in a mid-season trade, Fournier's numbers were not nearly as good in Boston as they were in Orlando.. because it typically takes time (especially for role players) to get up to speed with a new team.

We all thought Moe Wagner was horrible when he was in Boston..but maybe we just didn't give him enough of a chance? Maybe he was a mid0season acquisition, and still young, still early in his career, still developing? He's done pretty well in Orlando. And he's also a guy who is more of a defensive player - more limited on offense so more of an apples to apples comparison..

Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there? I've got Hal down as likely the first.

I wouldn't say that. I don't think it's necessary to form such a definitive opinion one way or the other. Again, he's 21 yrs old, just got acquired mid-season, has only played garbage time so far. 9 games, only 4 mins per game.

We probably won't have a great idea of how good he is or how impactful he will be for Boston till sometime next season.

This obsession to get instant gratification, see instant production and form a definitive opinion about a player so quickly is counter-productive, IMO. I mean, half this board wanted Udoka fired after 20 games coach. Those people ended up looking silly in the long run. After his first 20 games in boston, lots of people weren't too wild about Jrue either - they were saying Smart was better, or that it wasn't even an upgrade going from Smart to Jrue...no one is saying that now..

[Patsfan1081]

I would have rather kept the Bulls pick somewhere in the 40’s.

[31to6]

Spoiler:

No need to bring DWhite into this, who was a known quality quantity coming to BOS.

That's besides the point.

Point is, we didn't see the real Derrick until after he had a full offseason and full training camp with the team. Before that, he struggled offensively - was pretty much afraid to shoot the basketball.

We've seen a massive difference between Derrick during his first 25 (or so) games with Boston compared to Derrick after his 1st 25 or so games in Boston. So it's a little bit silly to be so critical of a guy after only playing 38 minutes (all garbage time) for Boston, after being acquired mid-season and coming off an injury.

But keep it simple and look at the two guys acquired at the deadline this year:
Xavier Tillman and he has come in, carved out a role, and is posting some great advanced stats, e.g., W/S per 48 of 0.18, BPM 0.7 (1.8 defensively), TS% of 0.65(!), and PER of 14.8 in 7 games (108 minutes) with Boston. He is 25.2 years old.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tillmxa01.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced

Jaden Springer has come in, looked like Rick Fox with his hair grown out a bit (this intrigues me, I loved BOS Rick Fox), and shown nothing yet. Nine games, just 38 minutes, and he's putting up a *negative* WS/48 (-0.15), a BPM of -16.3 (lol; 'only' -2.1 defensively:), a TS% of 0.27 (ack), and a *negative* PER, that value is -2.2. My friend, newly reformed so as to be less combative, those numbers -- while garbage time, and few -- are pure butt cheeks.

Those numbers are pretty much meaningless on such a small sample size of games and minutes.

So one of them has gotten up to speed quicker than the other. Ok? That's simply stating the obvious. No one on here (or anywhere) has ever claimed Springer is better than Tillman, so posting these numbers isn't very productive.

Of course the guy who is 4 years older, has much more NBA experience and much more playoff experience is going to be better. Does this really need to be said?

It's pointless imo to post a bunch of advanced stats for a guy who has played in only 9 games and a measly 4 minutes per game with literally all of those mins being garbage time. Yes, I consider the wizards game garbage time. Both teams were resting half their team (C's missing 3 starters, Wizards resting all 5 starters) and the C's were up by like 28 before Springer went in the game.

Of course Tillman's numbers will be better. He's actually played with starters and has played a good chunk of mins alongside our other top 8 guys, whereas Springer has mostly just played with our 3rd stringers.

Just because Tillman has started off well early on his Celtics career, it doesn't change the fact that other role players who have been added to the team recently did not start off so well but eventually played much better. You've got White, Kornet, Hauser, Brissett as I mentioned in my previous post. But also Grant (missed his first 25 threes but ended up being a 40% 3 pt shooter. Nesmith (we gave up on him when he was only like 22 but then he ends up being an awesome 3&D guy in Indy. After we acquired him in a mid-season trade, Fournier's numbers were not nearly as good in Boston as they were in Orlando.. because it typically takes time (especially for role players) to get up to speed with a new team.

We all thought Moe Wagner was horrible when he was in Boston..but maybe we just didn't give him enough of a chance? Maybe he was a mid0season acquisition, and still young, still early in his career, still developing? He's done pretty well in Orlando. And he's also a guy who is more of a defensive player - more limited on offense so more of an apples to apples comparison..

Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there? I've got Hal down as likely the first.

I wouldn't say that. I don't think it's necessary to form such a definitive opinion one way or the other. Again, he's 21 yrs old, just got acquired mid-season, has only played garbage time so far. 9 games, only 4 mins per game.

We probably won't have a great idea of how good he is or how impactful he will be for Boston till sometime next season.

This obsession to get instant gratification, see instant production and form a definitive opinion about a player so quickly is counter-productive, IMO.

So... Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there?

I was going to put Hal down as likely the first, but it usually just opens up an endless can of worms to engage with that poster, because he can't (for example) hear me say that Springer hasn't impressed me yet, and not turn it into a Whole Tiring Thing.

[sam_I_am]

I don’t see any scenario where the Celtics pay this guy $4 million going forward. He looks to be 2-3 years away from helping this team. Trading his $4 million for a veteran ready to give playoff minutes next year is just a no-brainer.

[Dogen]

Spoiler:

No need to bring DWhite into this, who was a known quality quantity coming to BOS.

That's besides the point.

Point is, we didn't see the real Derrick until after he had a full offseason and full training camp with the team. Before that, he struggled offensively - was pretty much afraid to shoot the basketball.

We've seen a massive difference between Derrick during his first 25 (or so) games with Boston compared to Derrick after his 1st 25 or so games in Boston. So it's a little bit silly to be so critical of a guy after only playing 38 minutes (all garbage time) for Boston, after being acquired mid-season and coming off an injury.

But keep it simple and look at the two guys acquired at the deadline this year:
Xavier Tillman and he has come in, carved out a role, and is posting some great advanced stats, e.g., W/S per 48 of 0.18, BPM 0.7 (1.8 defensively), TS% of 0.65(!), and PER of 14.8 in 7 games (108 minutes) with Boston. He is 25.2 years old.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tillmxa01.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced

Jaden Springer has come in, looked like Rick Fox with his hair grown out a bit (this intrigues me, I loved BOS Rick Fox), and shown nothing yet. Nine games, just 38 minutes, and he's putting up a *negative* WS/48 (-0.15), a BPM of -16.3 (lol; 'only' -2.1 defensively:), a TS% of 0.27 (ack), and a *negative* PER, that value is -2.2. My friend, newly reformed so as to be less combative, those numbers -- while garbage time, and few -- are pure butt cheeks.

Those numbers are pretty much meaningless on such a small sample size of games and minutes.

So one of them has gotten up to speed quicker than the other. Ok? That's simply stating the obvious. No one on here (or anywhere) has ever claimed Springer is better than Tillman, so posting these numbers isn't very productive.

Of course the guy who is 4 years older, has much more NBA experience and much more playoff experience is going to be better. Does this really need to be said?

It's pointless imo to post a bunch of advanced stats for a guy who has played in only 9 games and a measly 4 minutes per game with literally all of those mins being garbage time. Yes, I consider the wizards game garbage time. Both teams were resting half their team (C's missing 3 starters, Wizards resting all 5 starters) and the C's were up by like 28 before Springer went in the game.

Of course Tillman's numbers will be better. He's actually played with starters and has played a good chunk of mins alongside our other top 8 guys, whereas Springer has mostly just played with our 3rd stringers.

Just because Tillman has started off well early on his Celtics career, it doesn't change the fact that other role players who have been added to the team recently did not start off so well but eventually played much better. You've got White, Kornet, Hauser, Brissett as I mentioned in my previous post. But also Grant (missed his first 25 threes but ended up being a 40% 3 pt shooter. Nesmith (we gave up on him when he was only like 22 but then he ends up being an awesome 3&D guy in Indy. After we acquired him in a mid-season trade, Fournier's numbers were not nearly as good in Boston as they were in Orlando.. because it typically takes time (especially for role players) to get up to speed with a new team.

We all thought Moe Wagner was horrible when he was in Boston..but maybe we just didn't give him enough of a chance? Maybe he was a mid0season acquisition, and still young, still early in his career, still developing? He's done pretty well in Orlando. And he's also a guy who is more of a defensive player - more limited on offense so more of an apples to apples comparison..

Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there? I've got Hal down as likely the first.

I wouldn't say that. I don't think it's necessary to form such a definitive opinion one way or the other. Again, he's 21 yrs old, just got acquired mid-season, has only played garbage time so far. 9 games, only 4 mins per game.

We probably won't have a great idea of how good he is or how impactful he will be for Boston till sometime next season.

This obsession to get instant gratification, see instant production and form a definitive opinion about a player so quickly is counter-productive, IMO.

So... Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there?

I was going to put Hal down as likely the first, but it usually just opens up an endless can of worms to engage with that poster, because he can't (for example) hear me say that Springer hasn't impressed me yet, and not turn it into a Whole Tiring Thing.

I like investing in those low market cap gems that fit an upcoming narrative, so yeah, I'm a Springer fan.

I like the way he got into a fairly blown out game in Washington and was into an arm wrestling match within 20 seconds. That's Marcus Smart / Grant Williams type instigator stuff and it's a mentality that nobody else on the team really has. It's good to have a disruptor like that on your team, at least one anyways.

He did some nice things against Detroit and showed more signs when more in open court than half court. The 3 ball is totally not there, but that was why he came cheap. He may never become a great shooter but can definitely improve with good training and increased confidence, the talent is there.

I'm bullish!

[brackdan70]

I don’t see any scenario where the Celtics pay this guy $4 million going forward. He looks to be 2-3 years away from helping this team. Trading his $4 million for a veteran ready to give playoff minutes next year is just a no-brainer.

What vet that makes less than 4 million that could play in the playoffs for the Cs would you be thinking about in a trade scenerio?

There really aren’t any that I would rather have over investing in Springer.

[Memokerobi]

Feels more like an early career Avery Bradley with a little bit of Smart mixed in to me, not Derrick. If he ends up anything close to Bradley, it would be a W

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

[brackdan70]

Feels more like an early career Avery Bradley with a little bit of Smart mixed in to me, not Derrick. If he ends up anything close to Bradley, it would be a W

Body and athleticism closer to Tony Allen…his shot reminds me of Bradley a bit. Defensively he looks a lot more like White to me with the shot contesting/ blocking chops.

[165bows]

Feels more like an early career Avery Bradley with a little bit of Smart mixed in to me, not Derrick. If he ends up anything close to Bradley, it would be a W

Body and athleticism closer to Tony Allen…his shot reminds me of Bradley a bit.

I think there's a Keith Bogans comp to be made here somewhere.

[Homerclease]

Spoiler:

No need to bring DWhite into this, who was a known quality quantity coming to BOS.

That's besides the point.

Point is, we didn't see the real Derrick until after he had a full offseason and full training camp with the team. Before that, he struggled offensively - was pretty much afraid to shoot the basketball.

We've seen a massive difference between Derrick during his first 25 (or so) games with Boston compared to Derrick after his 1st 25 or so games in Boston. So it's a little bit silly to be so critical of a guy after only playing 38 minutes (all garbage time) for Boston, after being acquired mid-season and coming off an injury.

But keep it simple and look at the two guys acquired at the deadline this year:
Xavier Tillman and he has come in, carved out a role, and is posting some great advanced stats, e.g., W/S per 48 of 0.18, BPM 0.7 (1.8 defensively), TS% of 0.65(!), and PER of 14.8 in 7 games (108 minutes) with Boston. He is 25.2 years old.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tillmxa01.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced

Jaden Springer has come in, looked like Rick Fox with his hair grown out a bit (this intrigues me, I loved BOS Rick Fox), and shown nothing yet. Nine games, just 38 minutes, and he's putting up a *negative* WS/48 (-0.15), a BPM of -16.3 (lol; 'only' -2.1 defensively:), a TS% of 0.27 (ack), and a *negative* PER, that value is -2.2. My friend, newly reformed so as to be less combative, those numbers -- while garbage time, and few -- are pure butt cheeks.

Those numbers are pretty much meaningless on such a small sample size of games and minutes.

So one of them has gotten up to speed quicker than the other. Ok? That's simply stating the obvious. No one on here (or anywhere) has ever claimed Springer is better than Tillman, so posting these numbers isn't very productive.

Of course the guy who is 4 years older, has much more NBA experience and much more playoff experience is going to be better. Does this really need to be said?

It's pointless imo to post a bunch of advanced stats for a guy who has played in only 9 games and a measly 4 minutes per game with literally all of those mins being garbage time. Yes, I consider the wizards game garbage time. Both teams were resting half their team (C's missing 3 starters, Wizards resting all 5 starters) and the C's were up by like 28 before Springer went in the game.

Of course Tillman's numbers will be better. He's actually played with starters and has played a good chunk of mins alongside our other top 8 guys, whereas Springer has mostly just played with our 3rd stringers.

Just because Tillman has started off well early on his Celtics career, it doesn't change the fact that other role players who have been added to the team recently did not start off so well but eventually played much better. You've got White, Kornet, Hauser, Brissett as I mentioned in my previous post. But also Grant (missed his first 25 threes but ended up being a 40% 3 pt shooter. Nesmith (we gave up on him when he was only like 22 but then he ends up being an awesome 3&D guy in Indy. After we acquired him in a mid-season trade, Fournier's numbers were not nearly as good in Boston as they were in Orlando.. because it typically takes time (especially for role players) to get up to speed with a new team.

We all thought Moe Wagner was horrible when he was in Boston..but maybe we just didn't give him enough of a chance? Maybe he was a mid0season acquisition, and still young, still early in his career, still developing? He's done pretty well in Orlando. And he's also a guy who is more of a defensive player - more limited on offense so more of an apples to apples comparison..

Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there? I've got Hal down as likely the first.

I wouldn't say that. I don't think it's necessary to form such a definitive opinion one way or the other. Again, he's 21 yrs old, just got acquired mid-season, has only played garbage time so far. 9 games, only 4 mins per game.

We probably won't have a great idea of how good he is or how impactful he will be for Boston till sometime next season.

This obsession to get instant gratification, see instant production and form a definitive opinion about a player so quickly is counter-productive, IMO.

So... Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there?

I was going to put Hal down as likely the first, but it usually just opens up an endless can of worms to engage with that poster, because he can't (for example) hear me say that Springer hasn't impressed me yet, and not turn it into a Whole Tiring Thing.

I see what there is to like for sure, but I also see where Morey was coming from too. Springer is a great deal away, much like Walsh. He’s not a help this year but I see why they bought the scratch ticket and at worst they have a contract that they can use in a trade

[Memokerobi]

His mid range shots and free throws looked clean. Career 82% ft shooter too so there is still some hope for his three. If there is one organization that I would trust to fix someone's 3pt its the Celtics so hopefully they can make it work

[165bows]

His mid range shots and free throws looked clean. Career 82% ft shooter too so there is still some hope for his three. If there is one organization that I would trust to fix someone's 3pt its the Celtics so hopefully they can make it work

Totally agree and it's very cool that this has become the case - no more pining over some other orgs' shooting coach. Al, Brogdon, Jrue, all career years here shooting the three plus Hauser breaking through and just the sheer volume of it.

[playa-hater]

Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there? I've got Hal down as likely the first.
I wouldn't say that. I don't think it's necessary to form such a definitive opinion one way or the other. Again, he's 21 yrs old, just got acquired mid-season, has only played garbage time so far. 9 games, only 4 mins per game.

We probably won't have a great idea of how good he is or how impactful he will be for Boston till sometime next season.

I liked the talent of Springer when he first arrived. and I still do. I feel shooting is the only "real" concern. and yes that is a Big one. But at age 21? and with a good offseason + coaching/training he has time to FOCUS all his BB energies on that one category. If after this summer he still struggles with not just makes, but at least at not bricking his shots, then it may be time to upgrade. But until then nothing has changed for me.

[Dogen]

Feels more like an early career Avery Bradley with a little bit of Smart mixed in to me, not Derrick. If he ends up anything close to Bradley, it would be a W

Body and athleticism closer to Tony Allen…his shot reminds me of Bradley a bit. Defensively he looks a lot more like White to me with the shot contesting/ blocking chops.

Bradley/Smart/Allen/White. That's good company.

Jaden's shooting looks like early AB/TA so far but both those guys became decent after a few years. Springer's shot doesn't look broken, just needs steady work to improve.

[Hal14]

His mid range shots and free throws looked clean. Career 82% ft shooter too so there is still some hope for his three. If there is one organization that I would trust to fix someone's 3pt its the Celtics so hopefully they can make it work

And 43.5% from 3 (and 81% FT) in college.

His mechanics when shooting from 3 look a little wonky. But the mechanics kind of look like Brogdon's shot, which was a bit wonky too but still went in a lot.

[Dogen]

His mid range shots and free throws looked clean. Career 82% ft shooter too so there is still some hope for his three. If there is one organization that I would trust to fix someone's 3pt its the Celtics so hopefully they can make it work

And 43.5% from 3 (and 81% FT) in college.

His mechanics when shooting from 3 look a little wonky. But the mechanics kind of look like Brogdon's shot, which was a bit wonky too but still went in a lot.

Let's add Brogdon to the list: Smart, Bradley, White, T. Allen, Brogdon. This guy gets better by the hour!

I see the resemblance to Brogdon's shot though. Not super smooth, like Curry (or Hauser), but it goes in often enough and that's what matters.

[KillahGhostface]

Isn’t his problem that the ball doesn’t go in often enough?

I like him, but the shooting concerns are definitely legit.

[NuckyPowell]

I was pretty excited after I watched all his defensive highlights, maybe irrationally enthusiastic. The shot clearly needs a lot of work, but the defensive potential and all out hustle is elite. Then, in his first few stints of a couple of minutes of garbage time, we didn't see that stuff, and now, last night, there it all was. Happy to have him and Walsh as our development guys. I'm back on board.

[Celts17Pride]

Isn’t his problem that the ball doesn’t go in often enough?

I like him, but the shooting concerns are definitely legit.

Springer definitely has to improve his shooting if he wants to be part of the rotation next year. Does everything else pretty well. Big Summer for Springer.