Celts Peck Their Fans' Eyes Out! AOS vs ATL 3/25

[Celts17Pride]

Positive side of last night:

Svi Mykhailiuk continues to be very steady in limited minutes. 11 minutes, 6 points 3 assists and 0 turnovers with a plus/minus of 0. Svi made some nice passes and kept the ball moving. Gives you a little confidence if he had to play 2-5 minutes in a playoff game he wouldn't be doing stupid things.

Jaden Springer was very good last night defensively and had a nice coast to coast bucket after a steal. Showed flashes of what he could be down the road. Still needs to work on his shot. Missed a wide open 3 that would have put the Celtics up 5 points in the middle of the 4th quarter.

That's all I got.

[KillahGhostface]

I don’t care about losing the lead. **** happens, but seeing Tatum get bitched physically by bums like Wesley Matthews is concerning, everything looks tough down the stretch for him.

And yet, he was 3-4 down the stretch last night?

Everything looks tough down the stretch for every focal point in the league lol.

[KillahGhostface]

Far too many people only watch the Celtics and no other teams, IMO. Which is fine, but you definitely lose perspective.

[shackles10]

Read on Twitter

Can we get the tracking stats on this? Seems important.

Richard White should ask Richard Lipe and get back with us on it.

[31to6]

Tatum had 37/8/5/2/1 on a 60% TS, and was the only starter with a positive on/off. Hawks were physical with him all game, even in the first half. You don’t finish or get to the line like he does if you avoid contact, those are ridiculous takes, especially considering what he’s done in the playoffs. He drove to the rim 17 times last night lol, refs just swallowed their whistles in the second half.

His issue in the second half was the same as everyone, he couldn’t hit threes, as he was 6-11 from two. He was 0-3 from deep, Hauser was 0-4, Jaylen was 0-2, KP was 0-3, and Pritchard was 0-1. I really don’t need to explain how that’s an extremely flukey shooting half lol.

Tatum's a magnificent player. It's the last-minute/last-second stuff that has some of us (myself included) concerned. Not because he hasn't come through before -- he has, and I hope he'll continue to -- but because I think this is so deeply imprinted on him as what he wants to do:

https://youtu.be/OFa5FB-qrt4?t=23

How many game winning FGA this season has he ended up on his ass because he goes to the 'super fade'? I think it's 2 (DEN @ home https://youtu.be/rGUf15WTPKo?t=545 , and @ CLE https://youtu.be/zpr70CRmRT4?t=531). I can be fine with that if they win it all this year. If they don't, and we have multiple game winning FGA in the playoffs where he ends up on his ass, then I'm going to feel the way I feel about it.

And there's a time for last-second flailing shots -- but those plays start with 1 or 2 seconds on the clock, and only a few go in (hell, even Kobe landed on his feet here:

Watch on YouTube

)

[KillahGhostface]

Tatum had 37/8/5/2/1 on a 60% TS, and was the only starter with a positive on/off. Hawks were physical with him all game, even in the first half. You don’t finish or get to the line like he does if you avoid contact, those are ridiculous takes, especially considering what he’s done in the playoffs. He drove to the rim 17 times last night lol, refs just swallowed their whistles in the second half.

His issue in the second half was the same as everyone, he couldn’t hit threes, as he was 6-11 from two. He was 0-3 from deep, Hauser was 0-4, Jaylen was 0-2, KP was 0-3, and Pritchard was 0-1. I really don’t need to explain how that’s an extremely flukey shooting half lol.

Tatum's a magnificent player. It's the last-minute/last-second stuff that has some of us (myself included) concerned. Not because he hasn't come through before -- he has, and I hope he'll continue to -- but because I think this is so deeply imprinted on him as what he wants to do:

https://youtu.be/OFa5FB-qrt4?t=23

How many game winning FGA this season has he ended up on his ass because he goes to the 'super fade'? I think it's 2 (DEN @ home https://youtu.be/rGUf15WTPKo?t=545 , and @ CLE https://youtu.be/zpr70CRmRT4?t=531). I can be fine with that if they win it all this year. If they don't, and we have multiple game winning FGA in the playoffs where he ends up on his ass, then I'm going to feel the way I feel about it.

And there's a time for last-second flailing shots -- but those plays start with 1 or 2 seconds on the clock, and only a few go in (hell, even Kobe landed on his feet here:

Watch on YouTube

)

So what I will say is he fades away too much on those shots this season. In rhythm mid rangers are one thing, but when you unnecessarily fade away, you’re decreasing the chances of the shot going down lol. I think I’d rather pull-up threes in those scenarios tbh lol, it’s a shot he’s just more comfortable with.

But like I posted earlier, he’s literally 5-6 on go ahead shots in the last minute of playoff games, which is ridiculous. Tiny volume obviously lol, but if you expand it to clutch shots in general, he’s still been insane. I think that holds more weight than what he’s done in the clutch this season, personally. If people want to worry, that’s fine lol, I’m just sharing why I’m not. Also, lmao Embiid.

[shackles10]

Tatum had 37/8/5/2/1 on a 60% TS, and was the only starter with a positive on/off. Hawks were physical with him all game, even in the first half. You don’t finish or get to the line like he does if you avoid contact, those are ridiculous takes, especially considering what he’s done in the playoffs. He drove to the rim 17 times last night lol, refs just swallowed their whistles in the second half.

His issue in the second half was the same as everyone, he couldn’t hit threes, as he was 6-11 from two. He was 0-3 from deep, Hauser was 0-4, Jaylen was 0-2, KP was 0-3, and Pritchard was 0-1. I really don’t need to explain how that’s an extremely flukey shooting half lol.

Tatum's a magnificent player. It's the last-minute/last-second stuff that has some of us (myself included) concerned. Not because he hasn't come through before -- he has, and I hope he'll continue to -- but because I think this is so deeply imprinted on him as what he wants to do:

https://youtu.be/OFa5FB-qrt4?t=23

How many game winning FGA this season has he ended up on his ass because he goes to the 'super fade'? I think it's 2 (DEN @ home https://youtu.be/rGUf15WTPKo?t=545 , and @ CLE https://youtu.be/zpr70CRmRT4?t=531). I can be fine with that if they win it all this year. If they don't, and we have multiple game winning FGA in the playoffs where he ends up on his ass, then I'm going to feel the way I feel about it.

And there's a time for last-second flailing shots -- but those plays start with 1 or 2 seconds on the clock, and only a few go in (hell, even Kobe landed on his feet here:

Watch on YouTube

)

So what I will say is he fades away too much on those shots this season. In rhythm mid rangers are one thing, but when you unnecessarily fade away, you’re decreasing the chances of the shot going down lol. I think I’d rather pull-up threes in those scenarios tbh lol, it’s a shot he’s just more comfortable with.

But like I posted earlier, he’s literally 5-6 on go ahead shots in the last minute of playoff games, which is ridiculous. Tiny volume obviously lol, but if you expand it to clutch shots in general, he’s still been insane. I think that holds more weight than what he’s done in the clutch this season, personally. If people want to worry, that’s fine lol, I’m just sharing why I’m not. Also, lmao Embiid.

What's the time frame on the stats in that chart?

edit: are the last 3 post seasons truly the last 3 or is it a year old chart and it's really 2,3, and 4 years ago for the data?

[KillahGhostface]

Tatum's a magnificent player. It's the last-minute/last-second stuff that has some of us (myself included) concerned. Not because he hasn't come through before -- he has, and I hope he'll continue to -- but because I think this is so deeply imprinted on him as what he wants to do:

https://youtu.be/OFa5FB-qrt4?t=23

How many game winning FGA this season has he ended up on his ass because he goes to the 'super fade'? I think it's 2 (DEN @ home https://youtu.be/rGUf15WTPKo?t=545 , and @ CLE https://youtu.be/zpr70CRmRT4?t=531). I can be fine with that if they win it all this year. If they don't, and we have multiple game winning FGA in the playoffs where he ends up on his ass, then I'm going to feel the way I feel about it.

And there's a time for last-second flailing shots -- but those plays start with 1 or 2 seconds on the clock, and only a few go in (hell, even Kobe landed on his feet here:

Watch on YouTube

)

So what I will say is he fades away too much on those shots this season. In rhythm mid rangers are one thing, but when you unnecessarily fade away, you’re decreasing the chances of the shot going down lol. I think I’d rather pull-up threes in those scenarios tbh lol, it’s a shot he’s just more comfortable with.

But like I posted earlier, he’s literally 5-6 on go ahead shots in the last minute of playoff games, which is ridiculous. Tiny volume obviously lol, but if you expand it to clutch shots in general, he’s still been insane. I think that holds more weight than what he’s done in the clutch this season, personally. If people want to worry, that’s fine lol, I’m just sharing why I’m not. Also, lmao Embiid.

What's the time frame on the stats in that chart?

edit: are the last 3 post seasons truly the last 3 or is it a year old chart and it's really 2,3, and 4 years ago for the data?

It’s the last three postseasons.

[Green89]

I can’t imagine why so many good posters have either stopped posting, or stopped coming here entirely.

Very definition of quantity over quality.

You can look no further than the first post of this thread, after the OP. That person immediately makes a wise ass remark, no post game comments, no pointing out what the team did good or bad, just an immediate confrontational post before anyone else had a single thing to say about the game. It's posters like that who bring the forum down a level.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

Tatum had 37/8/5/2/1 on a 60% TS, and was the only starter with a positive on/off. Hawks were physical with him all game, even in the first half. You don’t finish or get to the line like he does if you avoid contact, those are ridiculous takes, especially considering what he’s done in the playoffs. He drove to the rim 17 times last night lol, refs just swallowed their whistles in the second half.

His issue in the second half was the same as everyone, he couldn’t hit threes, as he was 6-11 from two. He was 0-3 from deep, Hauser was 0-4, Jaylen was 0-2, KP was 0-3, and Pritchard was 0-1. I really don’t need to explain how that’s an extremely flukey shooting half lol.

Tatum's a magnificent player. It's the last-minute/last-second stuff that has some of us (myself included) concerned. Not because he hasn't come through before -- he has, and I hope he'll continue to -- but because I think this is so deeply imprinted on him as what he wants to do:

https://youtu.be/OFa5FB-qrt4?t=23

How many game winning FGA this season has he ended up on his ass because he goes to the 'super fade'? I think it's 2 (DEN @ home https://youtu.be/rGUf15WTPKo?t=545 , and @ CLE https://youtu.be/zpr70CRmRT4?t=531). I can be fine with that if they win it all this year. If they don't, and we have multiple game winning FGA in the playoffs where he ends up on his ass, then I'm going to feel the way I feel about it.

And there's a time for last-second flailing shots -- but those plays start with 1 or 2 seconds on the clock, and only a few go in (hell, even Kobe landed on his feet here:

Watch on YouTube

)

So what I will say is he fades away too much on those shots this season. In rhythm mid rangers are one thing, but when you unnecessarily fade away, you’re decreasing the chances of the shot going down lol. I think I’d rather pull-up threes in those scenarios tbh lol, it’s a shot he’s just more comfortable with.

But like I posted earlier, he’s literally 5-6 on go ahead shots in the last minute of playoff games, which is ridiculous. Tiny volume obviously lol, but if you expand it to clutch shots in general, he’s still been insane. I think that holds more weight than what he’s done in the clutch this season, personally. If people want to worry, that’s fine lol, I’m just sharing why I’m not. Also, lmao Embiid.

JT is an amazing player who constantly improves his game. He cops far more than he should for someone of his ability who has delivered so much at his age.

My concern is not about just JT, it is that we are a team built to have no weak link, which means we are in a unique position to rely less on isolation from our best player in late game scenarios than most teams, yet we continue to go there again and again.

The issue isn't that JT can't deliver, the issue is that we're likely to be more effective not relying on him to deliver all the time so why keep going there?

IMO for all of JT's strengths, he has shown he's not a natural reader of the game like some of the best are, but he has become a LOT better. Still, in pressure scenarios he concerns me, not because there is a lot to be concerned about for Boston this year, but because we are banner or bust and teams know they can physically present in these situations and JT sometimes appears to have brain freeze (as does JB). He can be rushed in the mind in a way Jokic, Luka, LeBron, Curry etc are unlikely to be. He is still young and may get over this, but we are banner or bust this year and are built differently, so we should play differently.

Part of the problem is also no off ball movement in these scenarios which could be explained by wanting to maintain spacing, but in essence it makes it easy for the opposition defense to be comfortable, aggressive and therefore rush JT.

Having said all of this, I do firmly believe that a lot of this regular season we are using these moments more for player growth than set play execution practice in an attempt to:

• give reps to JT and JB if we end up in the scenario where everything has dropped to a standstill with no timeouts left (or a broken play) and in isolation; AND
• keep our cards close to our chest so they're more effective when it matters in the playoffs

So like you I'm not hugely concerned, but do recognise there hasn't shown to be much improvement in these scenarios. I come more from a point of view that just because we're great, it doesn't mean we can't be better and would like to see improvement in an area of relative weakness for a team wanting to win it all.

[Captain_Caveman]

I'm over the game but I'm still annoyed by Nique and the other Hawks announcer guy jfc they were making me want to murder.

What do Porzingis, Pritchard, Hauser and Kornet have in common? Well according to Wilkins none of them can play defense at all. Definitely no other similarities though.

On another note a Hawks fan bumped a thread on the GB last night from December titled "The Celtics still have glaring late game issues."

It actually cheered me up. If a team exhibits glaring late game issues every 3.5 months do they really have glaring late game issues or they just happened to play 2 bad games 3.5 months apart? I feel like the narrative is quite overblown and largely comes from remembering issues from past seasons with a different roster.

It's not every 3.5 months. We've looked shaky pretty consistently late in games, whether we win or not. Just recently, games against the Cavs, Nuggets, Bucks without Giannis, Heat without Butler...

That's 5 of the last 20 games, including last night.

In the 5 games prior to that, we ultimately weren't in danger of losing to Wiz/Hawks/Pacers, but still closed weak. We've had games earlier this year where we barely got by bad teams like the Pistons/Raptors/Grizz, and lost in OT to a bad Hornets team after giving up an 11-point lead with 6 minutes left. We saw it throughout last season and in the playoffs as well.

Against a shorthanded 8th-seeded Miami team full of g-leaguers and castoffs in Game 2, we blew a 9-point lead with 6.5 minutes left and lost at home. Game 6, we blew a 10-point lead with 5 minutes left and needed a miracle White putback to win the game. Didn't even have a lead to blow in Game 1, but nevertheless got outexecuted badly down the stretch.

Against the Sixers in Game 1, we got outscored 12-4 in the last 1:38 and lost by 4. In Game 4, we almost blew the series after Jaylen inexplicably left Harden open on a corner 3 to help on Embiid inside when we were up 2 with 20 seconds left in OT.

Even against the Hawks, we were shaky late. Game 6, we blew a 12-point lead with 5:20 left and lost at home, after getting outexecuted late in game 3 as well.

Maybe this all sounds like nitpicking, but the margins are slim when you are talking about winning titles, and it's a bit unnerving as we enter the playoffs. Watching us in crunch time, way too often I have wanted the Brady Pats feeling of "We will find a way", and ended up with the Mac Jones Pats feeling of "We're about to **** this up, aren't we?"

Mazzulla has a hands-off style similar to KC Jones or Ty Lue, but that works a lot better when you have Bird or LeBron. We are now 1-5 vs the top 3 seeds in the West in a slew of close games this year, with the lone win being at home in OT vs a Minny team playing without KAT.

Most every time we are in a close game under Mazzulla's tenure, we are underperforming and looking shook and disjointed in the process. Including close games we lost this year to the Ws in OT and to a Pacers team that was missing Haliburton for the 2nd half, I just collectively cited about 25 games of the our last 90 where we kinda looked like **** in crunch time, and many of which we blew sizable leads in.

It very well might not end up fatal, but our crunch time struggles are definitely a pattern and a flaw. One that falls squarely on our coach, IMO.

[KillahGhostface]

Tatum's a magnificent player. It's the last-minute/last-second stuff that has some of us (myself included) concerned. Not because he hasn't come through before -- he has, and I hope he'll continue to -- but because I think this is so deeply imprinted on him as what he wants to do:

https://youtu.be/OFa5FB-qrt4?t=23

How many game winning FGA this season has he ended up on his ass because he goes to the 'super fade'? I think it's 2 (DEN @ home https://youtu.be/rGUf15WTPKo?t=545 , and @ CLE https://youtu.be/zpr70CRmRT4?t=531). I can be fine with that if they win it all this year. If they don't, and we have multiple game winning FGA in the playoffs where he ends up on his ass, then I'm going to feel the way I feel about it.

And there's a time for last-second flailing shots -- but those plays start with 1 or 2 seconds on the clock, and only a few go in (hell, even Kobe landed on his feet here:

Watch on YouTube

)

So what I will say is he fades away too much on those shots this season. In rhythm mid rangers are one thing, but when you unnecessarily fade away, you’re decreasing the chances of the shot going down lol. I think I’d rather pull-up threes in those scenarios tbh lol, it’s a shot he’s just more comfortable with.

But like I posted earlier, he’s literally 5-6 on go ahead shots in the last minute of playoff games, which is ridiculous. Tiny volume obviously lol, but if you expand it to clutch shots in general, he’s still been insane. I think that holds more weight than what he’s done in the clutch this season, personally. If people want to worry, that’s fine lol, I’m just sharing why I’m not. Also, lmao Embiid.

JT is an amazing player who constantly improves his game. He cops far more than he should for someone of his ability who has delivered so much at his age.

My concern is not about just JT, it is that we are a team built to have no weak link, which means we are in a unique position to rely less on isolation from our best player in late game scenarios than most teams, yet we continue to go there again and again.

The issue isn't that JT can't deliver, the issue is that we're likely to be more effective not relying on him to deliver all the time so why keep going there?

IMO for all of JT's strengths, he has shown he's not a natural reader of the game like some of the best are, but he has become a LOT better. Still, in pressure scenarios he concerns me, not because there is a lot to be concerned about for Boston this year, but because we are banner or bust and teams know they can physically present in these situations and JT sometimes appears to have brain freeze (as does JB). He can be rushed in the mind in a way Jokic, Luka, LeBron, Curry etc are unlikely to be. He is still young and may get over this, but we are banner or bust this year and are built differently, so we should play differently.

Part of the problem is also no off ball movement in these scenarios which could be explained by wanting to maintain spacing, but in essence it makes it easy for the opposition defense to be comfortable, aggressive and therefore rush JT.

Having said all of this, I do firmly believe that a lot of this regular season we are using these moments more for player growth than set play execution practice in an attempt to:

• give reps to JT and JB if we end up in the scenario where everything has dropped to a standstill with no timeouts left (or a broken play) and in isolation; AND
• keep our cards close to our chest so they're more effective when it matters in the playoffs

So like you I'm not hugely concerned, but do recognise there hasn't shown to be much improvement in these scenarios. I come more from a point of view that just because we're great, it doesn't mean we can't be better and would like to see improvement in an area of relative weakness for a team wanting to win it all.

Really good post.

I think we spread the ball well around in crunch time overall, but Tatum definitely takes a bulk of the last shots lol.

[31to6]

Good convo everyone. Hope the boys are being healthy and smart enough in ATL.

[Tatumfor2]

I couldn't bring myself to read all of this, but did anyone discuss that were down our two best ball movers/off ball relocaters not to mention excellent decision makers and 3 point shooters? We should have won, but I'm not going to roast everyone on the team about late game execution when they are both out.

I honestly think Joe is trying all sorts of things these last few weeks before the playoffs, but when the playoffs begin the ball will be in DW an JH's hands much more down the stretch of close games.

[shackles10]

I couldn't bring myself to read all of this, but did anyone discuss that were down our two best ball movers/off ball relocaters not to mention excellent decision makers and 3 point shooters? We should have won, but I'm not going to roast everyone on the team about late game execution when they are both out.

I honestly think Joe is trying all sorts of things these last few weeks before the playoffs, but when the playoffs begin the ball will be in DW an JH's hands much more down the stretch of close games.

We did mention being down point guard 1 and 2 which kinda assumes a lot of what you’re saying, but it was countered with saying even with White and Jrue there’s a strong likelihood the Jays, especially JT bring it up and initiate things. It’s not a wrong counter either imo. If Joe is in mad scientist mode you’d like to at least have all the ingredients to tinker with. Although I’d also prefer the 11+ game lead and ability to rest and tinker in different ways.


Edit: the ball mover/decision maker part was brought up a few times anyways. Don’t recall if the shooting part was brought up much though without White and Jrue.