Celts Peck Their Fans' Eyes Out! AOS vs ATL 3/25

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

This is it, exactly. Biggest possession of the game, plenty of time to call a play, and there is not even a plan of any kind. No movement, no passing. Our guys honestly just look confused. Does Jaylen want space? Does he want a pick? No attempt to switch him off a good defender.

I just don't get what Joe thinks he is doing. You know how when someone gets promoted professionally and they don't know how to supervise former colleagues? Like they just can't get past that aspect of being the boss of people they used to be friends with? That's Joe as a coach. And I almost feel like the reason he doesn't call timeouts is because he has no plays to call anyway.

It's maddening, and I really hope it does not cost us a title.

Mate, I respect you opinion, but I don't agree about Joe.

This has been a habit of both Jays for years under three different head coaches. It doesn't matter the coach if the players freeze in their minds and don't follow plans.

None of us are there to know what is being said and coached, so I realise I may be wrong also, but to me there is a clear trend with evidence from Joe this year that leaving these situations is an attempt for player growth to read the game without set plays. The idea being to prepare the players for an eventuality in the playoffs to handle reads themselves if either there are no timeouts left or if the set play fails to be executed as planned.

Let's just say for a moment that my assumption is correct and Joe is doing this, that when he says (around training camp) that he learnt from his mistakes in last playoffs and that he needs to manage the game more actively that he means it and his approach now is only for RS. If this is the case (and I clearly believe it is), then I'm all for it. I'm also for not showing a bunch of set plays in a meaningless RS game.

Of course if I'm wrong about this then very likely Joe is **** and hasn't learnt a thing. But there is many times he's talked post games and preseason about this very thing which leads me to this belief. That and the fact for the most part every single one of our players seems extremely clear on what to do on both ends with various lineups. That's a sign of very good coaching.

What bothers me is JT and JB are not learning quick enough and still have a touch of the panicked brain about them.

Joe hasn't come up with enough game ending play calls to then be able to "test" letting the Jays figure it out on their own. It's pretty clear he's not that kind of coach yet.

Yes that is somewhat unknown which is disconcerting as a fan. Earlier this season someone had the stat about Boston being 2nd or 3rd in the league about points from after timeout plays which indicates to me he would have a bunch, but it doesn't change that it is worrisome at the moment for Celts fans.

[JimmyFromNz]

Yes it's frustrating, but again perspective.

- We know this team is capable of playing some very rigid and lackadaisical ball in the clutch.
- Refer to the past 6 seasons under multiple different coaches...
- Today was one of those days compounded by complacency after going up 30 in a late March game.
- But consider that carefully in the wider context...

- We have won 20 of the last 22 games.
- We have already tied up the #1 seed.
- We are on track for one of the highest NET ratings ever.
- We are actively employing regular rest days for our top 8 players.

Things are nearly as good as it gets, but it doesn't mean there's no scrutiny allowed. The biggest outstanding red flag for me remains the final 4 minutes.

Luckily we have been blowing teams out at an unprecedented rate so it hasn't surfaced often, we also remain around the top 8 clutch teams in the league. Which is good, but relatively we then consider what we 'should be'... What does need to change is this stat:

Rank 30th: Boston Celtics Clutch Games Played: 31 Clutch Pace: 94.74

That is bottom of the league, and completely unacceptable for a team with the offensive weapons we have. For those that choose to watch the games, I think we can attest to how that links to what we are seeing with isolated and poor decision making from our two star players.

Just throw this one away and head to the next one.

[Green89]

Yes it's frustrating, but again perspective.

- We know this team is capable of playing some very rigid and lackadaisical ball in the clutch.
- Refer to the past 6 seasons under multiple different coaches...
- Today was one of those days compounded by complacency after going up 30 in a late March game.
- But consider that carefully in the wider context...

- We have won 20 of the last 22 games.
- We have already tied up the #1 seed.
- We are on track for one of the highest NET ratings ever.
- We are actively employing regular rest days for our top 8 players.

It doesn't mean there's no scrutiny allowed. The biggest outstanding red flag for me remains the final 4 minutes.

Luckily we have been blowing teams out at an unprecedented rate so it hasn't surfaced often, we also remain around the top 8 clutch teams in the league. Which is good, but relatively we then consider what we 'should be'... What does need to change is this stat:

Rank 30th: Boston Celtics Clutch Games Played: 31 Clutch Pace: 94.74

That is bottom of the league, and completely unacceptable for a team with the offensive weapons we have. For those that choose to watch the games, I think we can attest to how that links to what we are seeing with decision making of our two star players.

Just throw this one away and head to the next one.

Now 6-11 when tied or down in the game's final 2 minutes.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Mate, I respect you opinion, but I don't agree about Joe.

This has been a habit of both Jays for years under three different head coaches. It doesn't matter the coach if the players freeze in their minds and don't follow plans.

None of us are there to know what is being said and coached, so I realise I may be wrong also, but to me there is a clear trend with evidence from Joe this year that leaving these situations is an attempt for player growth to read the game without set plays. The idea being to prepare the players for an eventuality in the playoffs to handle reads themselves if either there are no timeouts left or if the set play fails to be executed as planned.

Let's just say for a moment that my assumption is correct and Joe is doing this, that when he says (around training camp) that he learnt from his mistakes in last playoffs and that he needs to manage the game more actively that he means it and his approach now is only for RS. If this is the case (and I clearly believe it is), then I'm all for it. I'm also for not showing a bunch of set plays in a meaningless RS game.

Of course if I'm wrong about this then very likely Joe is **** and hasn't learnt a thing. But there is many times he's talked post games and preseason about this very thing which leads me to this belief. That and the fact for the most part every single one of our players seems extremely clear on what to do on both ends with various lineups. That's a sign of very good coaching.

What bothers me is JT and JB are not learning quick enough and still have a touch of the panicked brain about them.

Joe hasn't come up with enough game ending play calls to then be able to "test" letting the Jays figure it out on their own. It's pretty clear he's not that kind of coach yet.

Yes that is somewhat unknown which is disconcerting as a fan. Earlier this season someone had the stat about Boston being 2nd or 3rd in the league about points from after timeout plays which indicates to me he would have a bunch, but it doesn't change that it is worrisome at the moment for Celts fans.

It’s also hard to know how many plays get blown up and the players don’t react well.

It’s been an issue with Stevens and Udoka at the helm.

Certainly far different to those teams with Rondo and the big 3 who were really good at executing what Doc wanted but also reading what the D was doing.

Tatum doesn’t read and react quickly enough.

Jrue is our floor general who can definitely help but he’s also a bit of a questionable decision maker.

[Sweet Serenity]

Let’s just forget about the 70 or so odd games & solely focus on the other 4 or 5 games …
Oh & why don’t we just completely forget that we have the 3rd highest net rating of all time …
While we’re at it let’s just completely look away from the fact we are 20-3 in our last 23 games.

It’s March & we’ve had the #1 seed locked up for a while now. Team isn’t as locked in, went cold shooting the ball & the other team got hot. It’s well known no lead is safe in the NBA these days even if it’s against the mediocre teams.

But hey, if the ‘meltdown crew’ want to have their 4th or something meltdown for the season, that’s fine ..
I, like the ‘reasonable crew’ will not overreact to a game in late March & happily say “I told you so” when we’re hoisting the trophy in June.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

Joe hasn't come up with enough game ending play calls to then be able to "test" letting the Jays figure it out on their own. It's pretty clear he's not that kind of coach yet.

Yes that is somewhat unknown which is disconcerting as a fan. Earlier this season someone had the stat about Boston being 2nd or 3rd in the league about points from after timeout plays which indicates to me he would have a bunch, but it doesn't change that it is worrisome at the moment for Celts fans.

It’s also hard to know how many plays get blown up and the players don’t react well.

It’s been an issue with Stevens and Udoka at the helm.

Certainly far different to those teams with Rondo and the big 3 who were really good at executing what Doc wanted but also reading what the D was doing.

Tatum doesn’t read and react quickly enough.

Jrue is our floor general who can definitely help but he’s also a bit of a questionable decision maker.

100%. This is what feeds into my other belief (I've said it a number of times now where I feel like I'm trying to convince myself lol), in that Joe has known this is a problem for a number of years and instead of trying the same approach that has failed under other coaches (calling timeouts and setting plays that don't get executed well), is trying to correct how they think during these situations. If he even has a little success then plays will have a better chance of working.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Let’s just forget about the 70 or so odd games & solely focus on the other 4 or 5 games …
Oh & why don’t we just completely forget that we have the 3rd highest net rating of all time …
While we’re at it let’s just completely look away from the fact we are 20-3 in our last 23 games.

It’s March & we’ve had the #1 seed locked up for a while now. Team isn’t as locked in, went cold shooting the ball & the other team got hot. It’s well known no lead is safe in the NBA these days even if it’s against the mediocre teams.

But hey, if the ‘meltdown crew’ want to have their 4th or something meltdown for the season, that’s fine ..
I, like the ‘reasonable crew’ will not overreact to a game in late March & happily say “I told you so” when we’re hoisting the trophy in June.

The amount of wins is great but I think we all have a right to be concerned about late game execution.

You might say it’s only a game or two but it’s a pattern.

It matters because in an ECF or NBA finals we are unlikely to be blowing out teams in every game and will be forced to execute down the stretch.

Plus two of our bad late game losses came against Denver, a team we would be very likely to face in June.

Watching them out execute us twice down the stretch combined with the other late game collapses doesn’t exactly leave me feeling great about beating them.

[Fierce1]

Joe deserves some flak for the late game stuff but how many times does it have to be spelled out that Tatum simply is a level below guys like Durant, Curry, LeBron etc at the end of games?

He simply cannot get easy buckets like them and it’s been a flaw of his throughout his entire career and I don’t see it changing.

It is what holds him back from being a top 3 player.

He can change that narrative in this year's playoffs and hopefully the finals.

Maybe.

But if we’re to win a title I’ve got a feeling it’s going to be ugly for multiple rounds like the 2008 team.

If finals games for instance come down to the last minutes against Jokic then we simply won’t win.

Or it could be the first time the Cs finally pull it off.

Imagine JT doing something like what Kyrie did in Game 7 of the 2016 finals.

[Fierce1]

Meltdown Crew

[MaxwellSmart]

Blowing a 30 point 2nd quarter lead is not nearly as bad as blowing a 22 point lead with 9 minutes to go in the game. Neither Tatum or Brown should be bringing the ball up late in games.

[TheMartian]

Yes it's frustrating, but again perspective.

- We know this team is capable of playing some very rigid and lackadaisical ball in the clutch.
- Refer to the past 6 seasons under multiple different coaches...
- Today was one of those days compounded by complacency after going up 30 in a late March game.
- But consider that carefully in the wider context...

- We have won 20 of the last 22 games.
- We have already tied up the #1 seed.
- We are on track for one of the highest NET ratings ever.
- We are actively employing regular rest days for our top 8 players.

It doesn't mean there's no scrutiny allowed. The biggest outstanding red flag for me remains the final 4 minutes.

Luckily we have been blowing teams out at an unprecedented rate so it hasn't surfaced often, we also remain around the top 8 clutch teams in the league. Which is good, but relatively we then consider what we 'should be'... What does need to change is this stat:

Rank 30th: Boston Celtics Clutch Games Played: 31 Clutch Pace: 94.74

That is bottom of the league, and completely unacceptable for a team with the offensive weapons we have. For those that choose to watch the games, I think we can attest to how that links to what we are seeing with decision making of our two star players.

Just throw this one away and head to the next one.

Now 6-11 when tied or down in the game's final 2 minutes.

This is what concerns me more than anything. In the playoffs, you can expect a lot of close games, and the team's track record in close games, especially when they are down or tied, leaves a lot to be desired. Their only hope is to blow teams away every game (which they are very much capable of), but otherwise they have a lot of work to do.

[Infinite Llamas]

I was watching Denver to cleanse my eyes of that meltdown and at one point, Denver was up 67-38 and it almost exactly mirrored our score. I’m not sure the Grizzlies ever got it closer than 21-22 points after that. The sad reality of it all is that Joe is no Michael Malone and Tatum is no Jokic.

But yeah, we’ve low key kind of sucked ever since the league told Joe to stop blocking shots lol.

[TheSheriff]

Yes it's frustrating, but again perspective.

- We know this team is capable of playing some very rigid and lackadaisical ball in the clutch.
- Refer to the past 6 seasons under multiple different coaches...
- Today was one of those days compounded by complacency after going up 30 in a late March game.
- But consider that carefully in the wider context...

- We have won 20 of the last 22 games.
- We have already tied up the #1 seed.
- We are on track for one of the highest NET ratings ever.
- We are actively employing regular rest days for our top 8 players.

It doesn't mean there's no scrutiny allowed. The biggest outstanding red flag for me remains the final 4 minutes.

Luckily we have been blowing teams out at an unprecedented rate so it hasn't surfaced often, we also remain around the top 8 clutch teams in the league. Which is good, but relatively we then consider what we 'should be'... What does need to change is this stat:

Rank 30th: Boston Celtics Clutch Games Played: 31 Clutch Pace: 94.74

That is bottom of the league, and completely unacceptable for a team with the offensive weapons we have. For those that choose to watch the games, I think we can attest to how that links to what we are seeing with decision making of our two star players.

Just throw this one away and head to the next one.

Now 6-11 when tied or down in the game's final 2 minutes.

This is what concerns me more than anything. In the playoffs, you can expect a lot of close games, and the team's track record in close games, especially when they are down or tied, leaves a lot to be desired. Their only hope is to blow teams away every game (which they are very much capable of), but otherwise they have a lot of work to do.

Most teams don’t have amazing records in close games. You know who has the best record in 3pt games? Charolette. The record in 3pt games has far more variance and doesn’t show a ton. The 2017 Warriors, for instance, had a losing record in 3pt games.


Seems like these complaints are largely trying to interpret significance in the random noise of a 82 game season.

[GoCeltics123]

The slow the game stuff at the end of games just legit kills this team's offense. It's so annoying that they just never play faster. It's right there as an obvious adjustment and they don't do it. Been that way since **** Brad was the coach

[Parasite]

Million dollar talent and ten cent brains. Absolutely horrible coaching as well.

[ConstableGeneva]

It's not unfanly (yes that's a word) to want your team to continue improving in the stuff that matters. Late-game execution and proper use of timeouts/playcalling are key ingredients in playoff success. How do you perform in tight quarters against elite competition? That's more instructive and essential for the postseason than 20-pt blowouts against 60% of the league of whatever it is. This isn't putting down the Celtics record this season or their historic net rating. But all of that will also be meaningless when they lose 4 of 7 in the postseason because they're still lost/tight/unprepared in clutch situations.

[Jellybeans]

How many games we have lost or nearly lost when we stop playing when we are up +20? and now this time +30.
Team just stops playing and at the end of the game only individuals start playing.
Dont wanna blame refs but cmon atleast call this crap on both sides of the court

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

[ConstableGeneva]

The Celtics have a win percentage of a play-in team (.500) when Derrick White doesn't play. Thank god White doesn't take more games off.

[BK_2020]

good lord wth happened.
Also we scored 44 points in the 2nd half the biggest issue wasn't late game execution.