Heat Scorch C's From 3! Game 2 Loss vs MIA 4/24 (Series tied 1-1)

[BK_2020]

It's execution at this point, not strategy. Miami's using the 16th seed in their quarter of the bracket meta. Luckily it's a 7 game series not a 1 and done, so there's time to get it right.

[Hal14]

I didn't think Boston was going to sweep but I also didn't expect them to split at home to a play in team with 2 starters missing.
I feel like Boston never took this game seriously which has been an issue all year when they play teams that are missing guys and are worse than them.

Boston simply should not be dropping home games already to an undermanned 8th seed team especially with they themselves are completely healthy. Bostons home record in the playoffs is legit issue and last nights loss should be a bit concerning.

Based on the postgame comments it seems like the entire gameplan was to force the Heat to beat them from 3, and once the Heat actually started doing that, they had no plan B or adjustment. It’s like they said “Well these guys aren’t supposed to be good shooters so they’ll cool off” and it never happened

The fact that Joe and the players seem to think there was nothing wrong with their 3pt defense is deeply concerning. 37 wide open 3s in one game is nuts

I'm generally a Mazzulla supporter, but this game is evidence for his critics.

If your gameplan fails for 2 quarters, make some changes to it at halftime. If not before.

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell his players to just stand there with their hands down, give a big cushion of space so that Miami had open looks from 3.

To just put the loss squarely on Mazzulla is unfair, imo.

All of these things contributed to the loss:

-Miami having historically good shooting variance

-That historically good shooting (while partly was just Miami making shots and Boston being unlucky) was also partly due to poor defensive execution by the Celtics players. (keyword being Celtics players here, not Celtics coach.) The players were the ones who were slow to close out on shooters and didn't move as quick or put in the necessary effort to contest shots

-Bam getting away with a million illegal screens..many of them resulted in open 3's for the Heat

-Stagnant offense for Boston. sure we can maybe attribute some of that to Mazzulla, but some of it was just really good D by Miami, good defensive gameplan by Spo..and also just Boston making mistakes like Jrue throwing the ball out of bound at the end of the 1st half..a couple other unforced turnovers, missed FTs by JB, poor overall offensive performance by KP, etc.

-Credit to miami. You can try to blame Joe or blame the players for leaving MIami open for those 3's. But you also have to credit miami for spacing the floor really well, spreading our defenders out. And moving the ball really quickly, zipping the ball around so our defenders are scrambling around (it's a saying in basketball, that you can pass the ball faster than a defender can run). And also playing with pace, really getting into their offense quick, bringing the ball up the floor fast and with urgency, quickly moving the ball and attacking the defense.

[lon3lytoaster]

Based on the postgame comments it seems like the entire gameplan was to force the Heat to beat them from 3, and once the Heat actually started doing that, they had no plan B or adjustment. It’s like they said “Well these guys aren’t supposed to be good shooters so they’ll cool off” and it never happened

The fact that Joe and the players seem to think there was nothing wrong with their 3pt defense is deeply concerning. 37 wide open 3s in one game is nuts

I'm generally a Mazzulla supporter, but this game is evidence for his critics.

If your gameplan fails for 2 quarters, make some changes to it at halftime. If not before.

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell his players to just stand there with their hands down, give a big cushion of space so that Miami had open looks from 3.

To just put the loss squarely on Mazzulla is unfair, imo.

All of these things contributed to the loss:

-Miami having historically good shooting variance

-That historically good shooting (while partly was just Miami making shots and Boston being unlucky) was also partly due to poor defensive execution by the Celtics players. (key word being Celtics players here, not Celtics coach. The players were the ones who were slow to close out on shooters and didn't move as quick or put in the necessary effort to contest shots

-Bam getting away with a million illegal screens..many of them resulted in open 3's for the Heat

-Stagnant offense for Boston (sure we can maybe attribute some of that to Mazzulla, but some it was just really D by Miami, good defensive gameplan by Spo..and also just Boston making mistakes like Jrue throwing the ball out of bound at the end of the 1st half..a couple other unforced turnovers, missed FTs by JB, poor overall offensive performance by KP, etc.

If he also said he liked the contests, it’s not unreasonable that he never made an adjustment or called attention to close outs and coverages in time outs or at any point in the game.

Getting really hard to blame luck what with damn near every team we’ve played in the playoffs under him having a “historical shooting variance.”

They’re not well coached on either end and that’s just becoming more and more evident.

[Hal14]

I'm generally a Mazzulla supporter, but this game is evidence for his critics.

If your gameplan fails for 2 quarters, make some changes to it at halftime. If not before.

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell his players to just stand there with their hands down, give a big cushion of space so that Miami had open looks from 3.

To just put the loss squarely on Mazzulla is unfair, imo.

All of these things contributed to the loss:

-Miami having historically good shooting variance

-That historically good shooting (while partly was just Miami making shots and Boston being unlucky) was also partly due to poor defensive execution by the Celtics players. (key word being Celtics players here, not Celtics coach. The players were the ones who were slow to close out on shooters and didn't move as quick or put in the necessary effort to contest shots

-Bam getting away with a million illegal screens..many of them resulted in open 3's for the Heat

-Stagnant offense for Boston (sure we can maybe attribute some of that to Mazzulla, but some it was just really D by Miami, good defensive gameplan by Spo..and also just Boston making mistakes like Jrue throwing the ball out of bound at the end of the 1st half..a couple other unforced turnovers, missed FTs by JB, poor overall offensive performance by KP, etc.

If he also said he liked the contests, it’s not unreasonable that he never made an adjustment or called attention to close outs and coverages in time outs or at any point in the game.

Getting really hard to blame luck what with damn near every team we’ve played in the playoffs under him having a “historical shooting variance.”

They’re not well coached on either end and that’s just becoming more and more evident.

1) Well that's why I named a bunch of other factors, in addition to just historical shooting variance

2) I wouldn't say our opponent in every series has had historical shooting variance. It only happened once - the ECF last year..and 1 game so far in these playoffs but 1 game isn't all that indicative of much.

[Fencer reregistered]

Based on the postgame comments it seems like the entire gameplan was to force the Heat to beat them from 3, and once the Heat actually started doing that, they had no plan B or adjustment. It’s like they said “Well these guys aren’t supposed to be good shooters so they’ll cool off” and it never happened

The fact that Joe and the players seem to think there was nothing wrong with their 3pt defense is deeply concerning. 37 wide open 3s in one game is nuts

I'm generally a Mazzulla supporter, but this game is evidence for his critics.

If your gameplan fails for 2 quarters, make some changes to it at halftime. If not before.

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell his players to just stand there with their hands down, give a big cushion of space so that Miami had open looks from 3.

To just put the loss squarely on Mazzulla is unfair, imo.

All of these things contributed to the loss:

-Miami having historically good shooting variance

-That historically good shooting (while partly was just Miami making shots and Boston being unlucky) was also partly due to poor defensive execution by the Celtics players. (keyword being Celtics players here, not Celtics coach.) The players were the ones who were slow to close out on shooters and didn't move as quick or put in the necessary effort to contest shots

-Bam getting away with a million illegal screens..many of them resulted in open 3's for the Heat

-Stagnant offense for Boston (sure we can maybe attribute some of that to Mazzulla, but some it was just really D by Miami, good defensive gameplan by Spo..and also just Boston making mistakes like Jrue throwing the ball out of bound at the end of the 1st half..a couple other unforced turnovers, missed FTs by JB, poor overall offensive performance by KP, etc.

-Credit to miami. You can try to blame Joe or blame the players for leaving MIami open for those 3's. But you also have to credit miami for spacing the floor really well, spreading our defenders out. And moving the ball really quickly, zipping the ball around so our defenders are scrambling around (it's a saying in basketball, that you can pass the ball faster than a defender can run). And also playing with pace, really getting into their offense quick, bringing the ball up the floor fast and with urgency, quickly moving the ball and attacking the defense.

If the team isn't playing effectively, it is the coach's responsibility to induce change in how they are playing.

That can take multiple forms, including:
-- Short-term scheme change.
-- Harangues or pep talks.
-- Swapping out players whose performance is substandard (whether or not you think you know the reason among possibilities such as minor injury they aren't handling well, tiredness, good scouting by the opponent, etc. ...).

One can disagree as to which approach should predominate at any given moment.

But if the coach does none of them, then he failed, either in the moment, or previously when his preparation didn't leave him with any useful in-the-moment options.

[Hal14]

I'm generally a Mazzulla supporter, but this game is evidence for his critics.

If your gameplan fails for 2 quarters, make some changes to it at halftime. If not before.

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell his players to just stand there with their hands down, give a big cushion of space so that Miami had open looks from 3.

To just put the loss squarely on Mazzulla is unfair, imo.

All of these things contributed to the loss:

-Miami having historically good shooting variance

-That historically good shooting (while partly was just Miami making shots and Boston being unlucky) was also partly due to poor defensive execution by the Celtics players. (keyword being Celtics players here, not Celtics coach.) The players were the ones who were slow to close out on shooters and didn't move as quick or put in the necessary effort to contest shots

-Bam getting away with a million illegal screens..many of them resulted in open 3's for the Heat

-Stagnant offense for Boston (sure we can maybe attribute some of that to Mazzulla, but some it was just really D by Miami, good defensive gameplan by Spo..and also just Boston making mistakes like Jrue throwing the ball out of bound at the end of the 1st half..a couple other unforced turnovers, missed FTs by JB, poor overall offensive performance by KP, etc.

-Credit to miami. You can try to blame Joe or blame the players for leaving MIami open for those 3's. But you also have to credit miami for spacing the floor really well, spreading our defenders out. And moving the ball really quickly, zipping the ball around so our defenders are scrambling around (it's a saying in basketball, that you can pass the ball faster than a defender can run). And also playing with pace, really getting into their offense quick, bringing the ball up the floor fast and with urgency, quickly moving the ball and attacking the defense.

If the team isn't playing effectively, it is the coach's responsibility to induce change in how they are playing.

That can take multiple forms, including:
-- Short-term scheme change.
-- Harangues or pep talks.
-- Swapping out players whose performance is substandard (whether or not you think you know the reason among possibilities such as minor injury they aren't handling well, tiredness, good scouting by the opponent, etc. ...).

One can disagree as to which approach should predominate at any given moment.

But if the coach does none of them, then he failed, either in the moment, or previously when his preparation didn't leave him with any useful in-the-moment options.

Pep talks don't usually make much of a difference at the NBA level. Guys shouldn't need a pep talk to be motivated to play in a playoff game. That stuff is more impactful for like high school football or something when the coach goes rah rah.

Also, how do we know Mazzulla didn't give a pep talk or deliver words of motivation? We don't hear what he said in the timeouts, huddles, locker room, etc. He could have given the most inspirational speech of all time but the players still just don't quite perform well enough..

And Mazzulla made substitutions all throughout the game. What did you want him to do, put in like Springer or Brissett or something? Joe kept rotating the top 8 guys in and out. Hauser and Pritchard didn't play a ton but they are the weakest defenders of the top 8..

Miami kept with their same rotation in game 1 when they were down by 30..and ended up getting back into the game.

As for a short term scheme change, sure he could have maybe changed something up, I guess. And I know that I've (for the most part) defended Mazzulla on here but I admit one area he sometimes struggles is with in-game adjustments. But again, what did you want him to do? It was pick your poison. We either defend the paint (to take away those mid range shots by Bam) but leave shooters open or we defend the 3 pt line ultra aggressively but leave the paint wide open and Bam kills us inside (and Caleb Martin has open driving lanes to the basket like he had on that one play where he went by JB for the layup...actually, that play and perhaps some other ones like the lob pass from Herro to Bam for the dunk we did defend the 3 pt line pretty aggressively but that left the paint open and MIA executed well to take advantage of the open paint.

[Fierce1]

It's true when the Cs were aggressively pursuing the shooter, the Heat attacked the paint.

It really opens up a lot of options once the team is making 3s at a high %.

[Fencer reregistered]

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell his players to just stand there with their hands down, give a big cushion of space so that Miami had open looks from 3.

To just put the loss squarely on Mazzulla is unfair, imo.

All of these things contributed to the loss:

-Miami having historically good shooting variance

-That historically good shooting (while partly was just Miami making shots and Boston being unlucky) was also partly due to poor defensive execution by the Celtics players. (keyword being Celtics players here, not Celtics coach.) The players were the ones who were slow to close out on shooters and didn't move as quick or put in the necessary effort to contest shots

-Bam getting away with a million illegal screens..many of them resulted in open 3's for the Heat

-Stagnant offense for Boston (sure we can maybe attribute some of that to Mazzulla, but some it was just really D by Miami, good defensive gameplan by Spo..and also just Boston making mistakes like Jrue throwing the ball out of bound at the end of the 1st half..a couple other unforced turnovers, missed FTs by JB, poor overall offensive performance by KP, etc.

-Credit to miami. You can try to blame Joe or blame the players for leaving MIami open for those 3's. But you also have to credit miami for spacing the floor really well, spreading our defenders out. And moving the ball really quickly, zipping the ball around so our defenders are scrambling around (it's a saying in basketball, that you can pass the ball faster than a defender can run). And also playing with pace, really getting into their offense quick, bringing the ball up the floor fast and with urgency, quickly moving the ball and attacking the defense.

If the team isn't playing effectively, it is the coach's responsibility to induce change in how they are playing.

That can take multiple forms, including:
-- Short-term scheme change.
-- Harangues or pep talks.
-- Swapping out players whose performance is substandard (whether or not you think you know the reason among possibilities such as minor injury they aren't handling well, tiredness, good scouting by the opponent, etc. ...).

One can disagree as to which approach should predominate at any given moment.

But if the coach does none of them, then he failed, either in the moment, or previously when his preparation didn't leave him with any useful in-the-moment options.

Pep talks don't usually make much of a difference at the NBA level. Guys shouldn't need a pep talk to be motivated to play in a playoff game. That stuff is more impactful for like high school football or something when the coach goes rah rah.

Also, how do we know Mazzulla didn't give a pep talk or deliver words of motivation? We don't hear what he said in the timeouts, huddles, locker room, etc. He could have given the most inspirational speech of all time but the players still just don't quite perform well enough..

And Mazzulla made substitutions all throughout the game. What did you want him to do, put in like Springer or Brissett or something? Joe kept rotating the top 8 guys in and out. Hauser and Pritchard didn't play a ton but they are the weakest defenders of the top 8..

Miami kept with their same rotation in game 1 when they were down by 30..and ended up getting back into the game.

As for a short term scheme change, sure he could have maybe changed something up, I guess. And I know that I've (for the most part) defended Mazzulla on here but I admit one area he sometimes struggles is with in-game adjustments. But again, what did you want him to do? It was pick your poison. We either defend the paint (to take away those mid range shots by Bam) but leave shooters open or we defend the 3 pt line ultra aggressively but leave the paint wide open and Bam kills us inside (and Caleb Martin has open driving lanes to the basket like he had on that one play where he went by JB for the layup...actually, that play and perhaps some other ones like the lob pass from Herro to Bam for the dunk we did defend the 3 pt line pretty aggressively but that left the paint open and MIA executed well to take advantage of the open paint.

First, there are two sides of the ball. It's on offense where the Cs were remarkably disappointing more than on defense, athough in fairness I've noted that almost every playoff game this year has been low-scoring.

Second, I find it hard to believe that leaving the opponents' shooters wide open is the best strategy on a night that they're hitting their shots. If nothing else works or seems appropriate -- perhaps because you believe Budenholzer-like scheme consistency is more good than bad -- substitute in otherwise inferior players who have the rest and energy to close out more effectively.

[Tyakack]

Literally the only way the heat have a prayer to beat us is to make it rain from 3. It seems that Spo agrees because that was clearly the game plan. That is the ONE THING you CANNOT allow to happen under any circumstance.

Joe apparently thinks we defended the 3 very well though. So no adjustments necessary.

[Green89]

It's true when the Cs were aggressively pursuing the shooter, the Heat attacked the paint.

It really opens up a lot of options once the team is making 3s at a high %.

But the only way they beat us is to make more threes. Let them flood the paint, it won't be enough. Bad game plan to be worried about them driving to the hoop. We have many different guys who can block shots on defense. Make them earn it inside rather than weak ass closeouts from deep.

[Fierce1]

It's true when the Cs were aggressively pursuing the shooter, the Heat attacked the paint.

It really opens up a lot of options once the team is making 3s at a high %.

But the only way they beat us is to make more threes. Let them flood the paint, it won't be enough. Bad game plan to be worried about them driving to the hoop. We have many different guys who can block shots on defense. Make them earn it inside rather than weak ass closeouts from deep.

You're absolutely correct about making more 3s beat us.

But here's thing, I think Joe was counting on guys like Highsmith, Delon, Jovic, and Jacquez to miss those 3pt shots.

Those guys are not really shooters like Duncan Robinson or Herro.

Game 3 will tell us a lot.

Will Joe still allow those role players to shoot 3s?

Can't wait to find out.

[Hal14]

I really need to remember to avoid this place after we lose a game.

[Fierce1]

I really need to remember to avoid this place after we lose a game.

You'll miss out.

There are fellow Celtic fans here who only post on Celtic losses.

[TheMartian]

Going to be great if the series extends and Jimmy magically plays because of it.

You think this goes to a Game 7?

Odds of 6 or 7 are better than 5

I'm honestly thinking it goes 7 with what the team has been showing since the last few games of the RS

[ThePigeon]

I really need to remember to avoid this place after we lose a game.

Why?

We shouldn't have lost this game (or any game in this series) to a depleted Heat. The only way we could lose is if we come unprepared - and it is all about Joe right now

[Hal14]

I really need to remember to avoid this place after we lose a game.

Why?

We shouldn't have lost this game (or any game in this series) to a depleted Heat. The only way we could lose is if we come unprepared - and it is all about Joe right now

Oh, I thought it was obvious - because anytime we lose we have 20+ page threads filled with overreactions, people whining, complaining, acting like the sky is falling, acting like the world is ending, and we need to fire the coach, come up with JB trade ideas..it's toxic..it's not fun to read pages and pages of negativity (case in point, the part of your post that's in bold)..I'd rather do something else that''s more enjoyable and less stressful.

Everybody is freaking out, panicking over 1 game.

I'm a big fan but we need to have some perspective here. It really doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things if the team of sweaty men we root for throws the ball into the hoop more times than the other team of sweaty rich men. It's not worth it to get so worked up over this stuff..

Bottom line, if we win the championship, I'll be pretty excited. If we don't win it, I'll be a little bummed out but life goes on - I'll go to work the next day, and it'll be basically like nothing happened..I'll move on with my life. But I'll definitely try to avoid this place - because being around such a high volume of toxic negativity where so many people are all complaining and writing novels about how the coach sucks, the team sucks, blah blah, is just not fun and not good for my mental health.

[Hal14]

I really need to remember to avoid this place after we lose a game.

You'll miss out.

There are fellow Celtic fans here who only post on Celtic losses.

Those are the types of people I'd prefer to avoid.

[Fierce1]

I really need to remember to avoid this place after we lose a game.

You'll miss out.

There are fellow Celtic fans here who only post on Celtic losses.

Those are the types of people I'd prefer to avoid.

[VeryMuchWoke]

Best roster in the east?

Some of the Cs fans here were saying Hali is better than JT.

Everybody agrees the Cs struggle executing in late game situations.

It's not just Joe, there are other flaws.

Well that's just silly lol.

I'm not saying Joe deserves all the blame but he does deserve most of it, IMO. I think almost everyone here agrees this team has the talent to win it all. So now it's up to the coach to put them in the best position to succeed with that goal.

Yeah, I couldn't believe what I was hearing early in the season about why JT can't be like Haliburton.

It's true Joe should be blamed, but reason why he was hired was because he's Brad's boy.

Joe is sticking with the Brad Stevens brand of basketball.

So expecting Joe to make adjustments is just not happening.

Joe is playing a numbers game, a math problem, according to Joe.

It's a case of we're stuck with the hand we're dealt with.

This idea that Brad Stevens never made adjustments is absolutely insane.

https://youtu.be/JrwKa1IkUcs?si=rG-3M2sKXPah_Mld

[ThePigeon]

I really need to remember to avoid this place after we lose a game.

Why?

We shouldn't have lost this game (or any game in this series) to a depleted Heat. The only way we could lose is if we come unprepared - and it is all about Joe right now

Oh, I thought it was obvious - because anytime we lose we have 20+ page threads filled with overreactions, people whining, complaining, acting like the sky is falling, acting like the world is ending, and we need to fire the coach, come up with JB trade ideas..it's toxic..it's not fun to read pages and pages of negativity (case in point, the part of your post that's in bold)..I'd rather do something else that''s more enjoyable and less stressful.

Everybody is freaking out, panicking over 1 game.

I'm a big fan but we need to have some perspective here. It really doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things if the team of sweaty men we root for throws the ball into the hoop more times than the other team of sweaty rich men. It's not worth it to get so worked up over this stuff..

Bottom line, if we win the championship, I'll be pretty excited. If we don't win it, I'll be a little bummed out but life goes on - I'll go to work the next day, and it'll be basically like nothing happened..I'll move on with my life. But I'll definitely try to avoid this place - because being around such a high volume of toxic negativity where so many people are all complaining and writing novels about how the coach sucks, the team sucks, blah blah, is just not fun and not good for my mental health.

It is only basketball, but I am a fan. I want to win it all, all the time. I get excited when we have a great team that can win it all.
As we see from this team, it is talented but flawed. And I am afraid that what happened last year will happen again. This game was played like Miami controlled our soul. We couldn't win it if we would play for 24 hours straight

IMO it is not overreaction but a creeping fear. I had no doubt we will easily beat Miami. Not anymore. It won't be easy.