Joe DiMaggio vs. Ken Griffey Jr.

[bigboy1234]

Who was the better player?

[Baller 24]

Hard to pick this one, I would go for Griffey just because of the homerun numbers, and he has been one of the best, and cleanest players(steroid talk) in the past decade.

[bigboy1234]

Hard to pick this one, I would go for Griffey just because of the homerun numbers, and he has been one of the best, and cleanest players(steroid talk) in the past decade.

Wait, so in this you pick Griffey, but in the "All-Time Rankings" thread you nominated Joe D over Jr.

[studcrackers]

interesting thing is that both these players probably had there best years taken away from them, dimaggio with the war and griffey with the injuries.

[Bleeding Green]

I'll give Junior the edge because he played in the modern era.

Probably the two most overrated players in the history of baseball.

[Baller 24]

-= original quote snipped =-


Wait, so in this you pick Griffey, but in the "All-Time Rankings" thread you nominated Joe D over Jr.

LOL, yeah because I knew there was no way Jr was going to get picked yet. So I just choose what everyone else was choosing, LOL.

[NDaATL]

I'll give Junior the edge because he played in the modern era.

Probably the two most overrated players in the history of baseball.

Griffey in Seattle was NOT overrated..

[Bleeding Green]

Yeah he was. People called him the greatest player of the nineties and that whole Griffey for President thing.

[bringinhinkie]

i dont understand how gold glove CF batting 300+ hitting 45-50+ hrs 130+ rbis along with decent speed is overrated? maybe he is the greatest player of the 90s? his numbers show it and he obviously never juiced like them other clowns..

[NDaATL]

Yeah he was. People called him the greatest player of the nineties and that whole Griffey for President thing.

I really hope you're kidding. Who was better in the 90s? I'd say the only player you could make a case for is Frank Thomas. Please don't bring Barry into this..

[TSC25]

-= original quote snipped =-


Griffey in Seattle was NOT overrated..

I have to agree,I really think if he never gets hurt in Cincy,then his HR total will be very close to what Barry has if not better,and the way the ball flies out of the new park in Cincy.

[Bleeding Green]

-= original quote snipped =-


I really hope you're kidding. Who was better in the 90s? I'd say the only player you could make a case for is Frank Thomas. Please don't bring Barry into this..

Barry Bonds, Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell, Edgar Martinez, Mark McGwire. Maybe a couple more who I can't think of. I forget when Rickey Henderson started to kinda not be that good for a while.

[34Celtic]

Yeah he was. People called him the greatest player of the nineties and that whole Griffey for President thing.

He was the greatest player of the 90's

[sideshowking24]

-= original quote snipped =-


Barry Bonds, Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell, Edgar Martinez, Mark McGwire. Maybe a couple more who I can't think of. I forget when Rickey Henderson started to kinda not be that good for a while.

you can make and argument for Frank Thomas and Bonds but Bagwell, Martinez and McGwire can't touch Griffey.

[34Celtic]

And then you have to realize Griffey won all those gold gloves and Thomas switched to DH after a while. Barry Bonds may end up being the player of the 00's

[writerman]

Just like on the basketball forum, the old timers get no respect... (*sigh*)

Griffey had a great advantage--he didn't play in the dead ball era like Joe D. That's a significant factor that must be taken into consideration to be fair.

I have a feeling there are people--younger posters--here who would swear Ted Williams would be a scrub today, just like some in the basketball forums say Wilt Chamberlain would be lucky to average 10 and 10 in the NBA today...

[bigboy1234]

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but neither played in the dead ball era.

If we are comparing the players to their peers Joe D. is clearly the better offensive player. And from what I've read I would also say Joe D. is the better defensive player. So I clearly think Joe D. is better, so at least you got that right. Although I'm thinking you lucked into that conclusion just since Joe is older. And there is no denying players now have an advantage since they are more athletic now, not sure how you could argue that, now maybe Joe makes himself into a great athlete like the ones today, or maybe not, who knows, but we do know how he did against his peers. Maybe his peers were less talented since he mainly played against people of his same color, maybe not since there were less teams and thus less watered down.

[writerman]

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but neither played in the dead ball era.

If we are comparing the players to their peers Joe D. is clearly the better offensive player. And from what I've read I would also say Joe D. is the better defensive player. So I clearly think Joe D. is better, so at least you got that right. Although I'm thinking you lucked into that conclusion just since Joe is older. And there is no denying players now have an advantage since they are more athletic now, not sure how you could argue that, now maybe Joe makes himself into a great athlete like the ones today, or maybe not, who knows, but we do know how he did against his peers. Maybe his peers were less talented since he mainly played against people of his same color, maybe not since there were less teams and thus less watered down.

In your first statement, you may be technically right, but you are still being disingenuous. No reasonable person will deny that Griffey played in an era when the ball was considerably livelier than when Joe D played. He also benefitted from pitchers not having the benefit of the higher mound, as Joe D did not. Fences today are in general shorter than in Joe's era as well. No long bus rides to games today as in Joe's era, etc., etc. While you don't come out and say it as such, there also seems to be the insinuation in what you've said that because the majors in Joe's day were exclusively white, there were no great athletes playing MLB. While many great athletes are black or Latino--and it's shameful they were denied the right to play in the majors in the past--it does not follow that there were no great athletes who were not black or Latino.

I also don't buy the idea that in in six or seven decades today's athletes have made some sort of quantum leap--are, as you put it, "more athletic" than their forebears--better training methods maybe, better medicine, healthier lifestyles, but the whole idea that they have "evolved" into ubermensch in that biologically short period of time and today's best are just flat out athletically superior to the best guys in the past is just a crock. Dimaggio and Ted Williams were superior athletes, the best hitters of their era. Transported to this era in their prime, I think they would probably still be today. And unlike those who have made a bad joke of the game's records by using performance-enhancing drugs, they could do it on native ability alone

[bigboy1234]

May be technically right? The deadball era was the first two decades of the 20th century.

And still no, they played in almost equal run environments. In Griffey's time the league average OBP was .341 and .425 SLG and in DiMaggio's it was .354 and .405, which are pretty much completely equal run environments.

I never implied white athletes weren't great athletes, what I said was he wasn't playing against all races like Griffey did, so obviously there is more talent available. But again, now there are more teams, so maybe it sets each off, not sure.

[Rupert Murdoch]

People just don't realize how brutally difficult it was for a right handed hitter to succeed at old Yankees Stadium. The bleachers in center field used to be completely filled with Yankees fans wearing white shirts which made it difficult to tell the difference between the ball and the background. Left field and left center were absolutely cavernous even earning the nickname Death Valley because it was extremely difficult for a right handed power hitter to succeed there. Also, the foul territory was pretty spacious as well since it used to double as a football stadium for the Giants. Despite all of those things working against him, Dimaggio was a better slugger in his prime then Albert Pujols, struck out only 369 times in over 6800 at bats and had a .325 career average. Griffey was considered a great fielder by many but Dimaggio was held in even higher regard, so much so that every baseball writer during that time considered Joltin Joe a superior player to Ted Williams. Dimaggio was clearly the better player.