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Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

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Whole Truth
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1441 » by Whole Truth » Sat Mar 2, 2024 12:04 pm

What's even more amazing is that the team was still sloppy in the 27pt win.

Besides the 23-3 run 2nd Q, Pels left 9pts on the FT line & had 17 TO's, one more than the Pacers. A potential 63pts, wasted on top of a massive run allowed.

Zion & CJ 2nd Q , once again exploited defensively, while Zion struggled offensively.

This team needs to be better at valuing free points & possessions.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1442 » by Whole Truth » Wed Mar 6, 2024 1:39 am

Herb becoming Mr efficiency ... 4 of 5 from 3, 14pts on 6 shots at the half.

Murphy +31 off the bench in 17 mins.

Nance early sub swung the games momentum.

CJ, 5pts on 7 shots.

Jonas -5 playing with CJ, +11 without.

I don't know what's gotten into BI but I like the new aggression.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1443 » by Whole Truth » Wed Mar 6, 2024 2:52 am

NO's started the first with Jonas & 3rd with Nance, both Q's started out with Pels in the negative the first 6 mins, respectively.

Take a guess as to why..

Jonas was -5 with CJ his first 6 mins, +26 without in the remaining 14, finished the game +21 in 20 mins

CJ was 4-11 +3 & people wonder why Jonas is played off court in that inefficiency & poor perimeter defense. Nance did a great job first Q altering the games momentum in his cleanup role.

Klay Murphy is back 34pts, on 17 shots +44 off the bench.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1444 » by Whole Truth » Sat Mar 9, 2024 9:55 am

A defensive coach values defense over offense. Pels have an offensive roster, an offensive starting big who plays defense in his offensive efficiency. Jonas starts. Nance closes. Build the lead with offense, protect the lead with defense.

What are the results of this mentality ?. Strong starts, good first halves, poor closes & clutch time scoring.

Pels were up 29 at the half, came out cold offensively 3rd Q so the obvious solution was to sub Jonas up 22 for Nance defense, to protect the lead & cleanup bricks. Resulting in a 21pt 3rd Q & 19pt 4th Q.

CJ put up 10pts on 14 shots, 5-8 first half playing off of Zion. 0-6 2nd half being more of a primary option & Greens solution 2nd half with 4pts on the board with CJ struggling to hit shots, to sub the offensive big for Nances defense to cleanup & protect the lead keep CJ who was 0-6 in.

Zion +13
Jonas 0, 19 mins 6/10/2/1/1
CJ -4
BI -13
Herb -15

Offense stalled 2nd half, obvious solution is to play 4 on 5 offensively to be better defensively. A defensive move that allowed 61 2nd half pts to an undermanned Philly squad. Nurse adjusted, Pels with a full roster had no answer, outlasted.

Systematic success based on talent, poor in game recognition & ignorance.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1445 » by Whole Truth » Sat Mar 9, 2024 10:24 am

Another game saved by Marshall, +23 off the bench in 18 mins.

This team needs more gritty players, like Hart.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1446 » by Whole Truth » Sat Mar 9, 2024 8:21 pm

Nance has not been as bad as some Pels fans are making him out to be. The problem with Nance is Green is more comfortable with a defensive big man, than offensive one.

My problem is CJ is the new Temple on steroids. He could be 2-14 with a few TO's & Greens solution would be Nance for Jonas to cleanup those bricks instead of looking to play efficient.

Last night second half, defensive decisions were made, Jonas was benched & the Pels gave up 61pts while also failing to score.

The difference between halves was offensive efficiency., Nurse defensive adjustment at the half through the Pels offense for a loop & Greens response was to play 4 on 5 with Nance to protect the lead with CJ also struggling (0-6) with a couple TO's. That's not a Nance issue. He's been solid defensively.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1447 » by Whole Truth » Sat Mar 9, 2024 9:32 pm

Updated lineups

Jonas - Zion - BI - Herb - CJ = 381 mins +1.3

Starting lineup with Murphy over Zion = 86 mins +17.1
Starting lineup with Murphy over BI = 36 mins +22.2
Starting lineup with Murphy over CJ = 34 mins +29.4

Nance - Zion - BI - Herb - CJ = 107 mins -0.5

Zion + Jonas = 851 mins +7
Zion + BI = 961 mins +2.1
Zion + Herb = 1013 mins +1.9
Zion + CJ = 902 mins -1.3
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1448 » by Whole Truth » Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:16 pm

Tell me how does a team starting 4 offensive players have a higher defensive rating (6th) than offensive (10th)

Jonas On 121 Ortg, 115.2 Drtg = +5.9
Jonas Off 113.6 Ortg, 110 Drtg = +4.8
Difference = +1.1

Nance On 115.2 Ortg, 110 Drtg = +4.6
Nance Off 119.6 Ortg, 114 Drtg = +5.7
Difference = -1.1

Jonas has the highest Pels Ortg at 121, Nance the lowest at 115, they split playing time. Pels are better in Jonas offense than Nance's defense but Green is more comfortable riding Nance in most if not all situations. Even ones like the Philly game where Pelicans were struggling to score & rebound. Putting up 19 4th Q points

Zion On 117.4 Ortg, 115.2 Drtg = +2.2
Zion Off 119.5 Ortg, 110.6 Drtg = +9
Difference = -6.8

Zion has the worse on/off Numbers in large part due to playing with the defensive bench units that struggled with spacing. This is the biggest drag on the team offensive rating. Zion paired with Jonas starting, is +7, Zion being zoned on the defensive bench unit is -12.2

BI On 118.9 Ortg, 114.3 Drtg = +4.6
BI off 117.7 Ortg, 111 Drtg = +6.7
Difference = -2.1

Herb On 119.3 Ortg, 112.4 Drtg = +6.9
Herb Off 117.3 Ortg, 113.9 Drtg = +3.4
Difference = +3.5

CJ On 118.6 Ortg, 114.8 Drtg = +3.7
CJ Off 118.3 Ortg, 111.4 Drtg = +6.9
Difference = -3.2

Notice the role players Jonas & Herb are positive while the primary players are all negatives. BI & CJ combine for 30 FGA's on 45% efficiency. Jonas & ZIon, 24 FGA's on 60% efficiency.

Issue = usage overlap, shot distribution & defensive compensation.

Sub Jonas for Nance, Pels are -1.1
Sub CJ for Daniels elite defense & lower usage, Pels are +20.2 playing 4 on 5 offensively.
Sub CJ for Murphy's 3pt efficiency, defensive length & lower usage, Pels are +29
Sub BI higher usage for Murphy's 3pt efficiency & shot selection, Pels ate +22
Sub Zion post efficiency for Murphy's 3pt efficiency, Pels are +17

Murphy has the best offensive/defensive differential in his efficiency, defensive length & lower usage.

Murphy On 119 Ortg, 108 Drtg = +10.7
Murphy Off 118 Ortg, 115.5 Drtg = +2.7
Difference = +8

Notice the biggest gains is when BI & CJ's 30 FGA's on 45% efficiency are distributed into higher usage for more efficient options & better defensive compensation for those options, Jonas & ZIon, who shoot 60% efficiency on 24 FGA's. Note, the 0 gain from playing 4 on 5 with a defensive C over Jonas. Note, taking anyone of the perimeter options off results in a significant net gain because of offensive overlap & defensive compensation.

What makes this a tough pill to swallow is CJ is the highest paid player on roster, where replacing him has the most court net gain & that 35m can be better distributed into the teams quality depth & cap flexibility. Where resigning the younger BI in his prime wouldn't be seen as a cap issue.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1449 » by Whole Truth » Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:34 am

My last post I talked about the teams offensive efficiency, how BI & CJ average 30 shots a game at 45% efficiency to Jonas & Zion 24 FGA's at 60% efficiency & that the issue was usage, offensive overlap resulting in less efficient shots being taken without the defensive compensation.

Post before that, I mention Nance is not the issue. Defensively, he's been good but the starters with him struggle offensively as he has the lowest Ortg at 115. Where Nance is playing cleanup at lower efficiency in a 4 on 5 setting. Reason Jonas/Zion with Daniels defensive compensation is +20 is the fact the team becomes more efficient in it's shot distribution with no CJ.

This balance VS Hawks

Nance was his usual defensive self... but in this one, he played the majority of his minutes with Zion & Murphy's offensive efficiency & less CJ. Nance 29 mins +15, CJ 31 mins +1. Quite the contrast for equal mins.

CJ 20pts on 7-14 shooting = 50% efficiency, he took his regular average of 15 FGA's per game but here's where it gets interesting ...

BI 7pts on 3 of 9 FGA's + CJ 14 FGA's = 23 FGA's at 45% combined efficiency. BI however played distributor & had 10 assists, reducing their average FGA's by 8 possessions. A potential 24pts.

Zion & Murphy combined for 55pts on 20-32 shooting, 65% efficiency, not 45% on 30 FGA's, where Nance becomes Daniels 4 on 5 defensive compensation in that combined offensive efficiency.

Where I talk about increasing the usage of Zion & Jonas FGA's at 60% efficiency. It was Zion & Murphy in this one at 32 FGA's on 65% efficiency, with Nance, Herb & Naji defensive compensation, all 3 combining for 10 of 14 shooting for an efficient offensive lineup with Nance 4 on 5 defensive comp in a small ball rotation. The same reason Daniels over CJ 4 on 5 offense is effective with Jonas & Zion's efficiency.

I don't like that Jonas got benched because of how CJ was playing but it looks like this team is starting to figure out the combinations & hierarchy of efficiency distribution.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1450 » by Whole Truth » Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:52 pm

Poster wanted to know why this team has it's worst win % with CJ out.

Denver L - Hawkins/Herb starting. No CJ, Murphy, Jose
Wolves L - Hawkins/Daniels starting, No CJ, Zion, Murphy, Jose, Herb (1pt loss road B2B)
Houston L - Hawkins/Daniels Starting. No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Herb (3pt loss)
Dallas L - Hawkins/Daniels starting, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Herb

Dallas W - Daniels/Herb starting, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Nance
Denver W - Daniels/Herb startin, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Nance
Wolves L - Daniels/Herb starting, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Nance
Kings W - Daneils/Herb starting, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Nance
Kings W - Daniels/Herb starting, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Nance
Clippers W - Daniels/Herb starting, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Nance
Utah L - Daniels/Herb starting, No CJ, Zion, Murphy, Jose, Nance (5pt loss road B2B 3 games 4 nights)
Utah L - Daniels/Herb starting, No CJ, Murphy, Jose, Nance (2pt loss)
Chicago L - Daniels/Herb starting. No CJ, Murphy, Nance (6pt loss road B2B)

5-8 record without CJ but as you can see, when CJ went down Pelicans had up to 4 rotation players out during that stretch. Take away the 4 games Hawkins started because Herb got injured, 5-4 record. Take away the 3 close road B2B road losses, 2 of which were Zion rest days short 5 rotation players, where fatigue played a factor, NO's would be 5-1 short CJ, Murphy, Jose & Nance with Herb & Daniels starting.

SOS - Denver 2x, Wolves 2x, Mavs 2x, Kings 2x, Clippers, Utah 2x, Houston, Chicago, 3 of which, road B2B's.

4 losses by less than 2 possessions. with the bench not producing in either wins or losses.

So as you can see anyone looking at win/Loss without CJ is not factoring SOS & combined health. In relation, when CJ plays, the team is relatively healthy & in an easier schedule... Philly without Embiid, Cavs without Mobley, Mitchell etc...

Stats need context. The team is not worse without CJ alone. You can say It's worse without CJ, Murphy, Herb, Zion, Nance & Jose.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1451 » by Whole Truth » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:29 pm

Zion was a match made for NO's. The BIG eas-Z

If Jones doesn't make 1st team defense, show me that award is BS.

I'm Herb Jones, bitch ...
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1452 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:22 am

Nice start to the 3rd, LMAO.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1453 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:23 am

At some point you might figure out the real problem.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1454 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:34 am

Straight miracle losing the Q by 1 pt.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1455 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:44 am

Everything Cavs are doing has purpose. Everything Pels do is forced.

Missing Daniels in this one..
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1456 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:54 am

PG - Garland +25
SG - Levert +30
SG - Meril +33

Allen +8

Cavs successfully zoning Zion -23 with Pels shooting 2-18 from 3.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1457 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:03 am

Cavs came in prepared for the 2nd unit.

Naji - 30
Jose - 30
Murphy -24

Cavs holding pels to 85pts late 4th.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1458 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:09 am

Without Daniels these perimeter oriented teams continue to stomp..
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1459 » by Whole Truth » Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:17 am

Pels were shooting 2-18 from 3 & Cavs were crowding the paint. When the game was in reach with Jonas on court late 3rd, BI was subbed for Zion... this was not a game to play those 2 together. Needed another floor spacer if you were going to sub ZIon at that point.

Unlike the first meeting, without Daniels, Pels/Herb had a hard time containing the perimeter.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#1460 » by Whole Truth » Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:47 pm

Pels fans still blaming Nance & Jonas, lol. Cavs won this game on the perimeter. I've made the example several times, Jonas has done well against the Clippers with Hart & Daniels but is run off the court with CJ ... There's a reason I keep making this point.

Clippers 3 scoring guards/wings
Suns 3 scoring guards wings
Cavs multiple guards went off starters & bench.

Pels one Herb with Daniels injured.

What's the difference between game 1 & this one ? Murphy was a perimeter upgrade to Zion & Cavs could not zone the Pels like they did with Zion. He was the only one capable of playing through the Cavs zone D with Pels struggling from range. Game 1, it was Jonas & 4 guards, with Daniels elite defense off the bench. Reason Zion at the 5 was the best lineup in this recent loss, one big & 4 guards improved the spacing but there was still the defensive & rebounding issue. Reason Jonas was doing well until Zion was subbed in for BI, reason Nance was -15, Jonas -10 & ZIon -23. The issue with the big men in this one was the zone D & spacing.

Problem is, there's no perimeter D outside of Herb & the Cavs have multiple threats like the teams I mentioned. With the cold 3pt shooting, Zion was the only one capable of breaking their zone defense. What they couldn't use in game 1 with Murphy starting over Zion. That's why their defense stifled the Pels.

Pels have Herb & Dyson in instead of CJ with Pels shooting 2-18 from 3 what do you think is the difference playing 4 on 5 with Daniels & Cavs packing the paint ? ELITE PERIMETER DEFENSE. CJ started the game 0-5 with 1 assist, 1 TO. This game was over in the first Q.

If you are blaming either Jonas or Nance for this last lost, you're lost. All you have to do is look at all the Clippers matches over the last 3 yrs & realize Pels played them best with Hart, Daniels, no CJ. & Jonas was effective in all, except the games CJ played in. Those games CJ played in, Jonas was run off the court in CJ's inefficiency & poor defensive compensation.

Herb is an incredible defender but teams with multiple scoring guard/wing threats is too much of an ask for 1 perimeter defender. Unless of course you believe having Allen over Jonas Pels wouldn't have shot 2-18 from 3 & allowed 20 made 3s ... Jonas & Nance were a problem in this one because Cavs zoned Zion & there was a spacing issue with the Pels shooters struggling. As I mentioned, in game 1 they couldn't do that with Murphy playing for an injured ZIon & reason moving Zion to the 5 for an additional wing threat/defender was the most effective lime up in the loss. Playing either big helped Cavs shut down the Pels offense zoning Zion with the shooters struggling. It wasn't just the defensive switch ability

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