NBA 2023 Draft

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Would you guys do a trade of Poole for your 2023 1st round pick (Projected 14th pick), straight-up?

[NO-KG-AI]

Would you guys do a trade of Poole for your 2023 1st round pick (Projected 14th pick), straight-up?

Don't see how that works for us with the cap and all, but I would just from the standpoint of doubting we'd draft a better guard there.

[TyCobb]

I don't know where to ask this, but what is going on with Jaxson Hayes? Does he suck? Is he coming back? Who would be interested in him around the league?

Thank you.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't know where to ask this, but what is going on with Jaxson Hayes? Does he suck? Is he coming back? Who would be interested in him around the league?

Thank you.

He's weird, because he's shown ability to switch and defend all over, he's pretty high energy, and he's even flashed shooting ability. But he doesn't put it all together often, and he'll just be a complete bonehead for long stretches.

If he gets paid, it'll be purely on potential, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if he goes somewhere and plays much better on his second contract. It was just hard finding minutes for him with a pretty crowded front court when Zion was healthy, and even when he wasn't, you have solid, savvy vets like Jonas V, LArry Nance, and even Willy Hernangomez to try and beat out.

[Whole Truth]

Everything happens for a reason. It's been a while, so first things first. I love the Lively talk & fit in the Pels unfortunate draft range.. A draft slot that is now ideal for a high upside C at a better price point benefitting the Pels cap situation all while addressing a key issue in rim protection. Doesn't sound so unfortunate... get lemons, make lemonafe.

That said. Pels have more issues than rim protection to address. They have far too much money tied up in injured & ageing talent. One of the main reasons I was against trading for CJ. Knew that move would kill cap flexibility & rush the timeline of a young team that had uet to prove itself. They hadn't even made a PO appearance for a finishing trade like that. They weren;t one move away to trade for a max player on the wrong side of 30 as this past year clearly showed but what's done, is done...

Outside of rim protection Pels need shooting, ball protection, playmaking & to clear salary for better flexibility moving forward. They have too much money tied uo in uncertainty... how many games will either or both Zion, BI play this yr?, how long before CJ starts to decline being on the wrong side of 30 ?, It potentially caps the teams "future" not just financial flexibility if they wait too long to address the issues.

Alot won't like this suggestion but I'd move CJ in a trade targeting Detroits 5th pick.. (The 5th pick & expiring value) for (CJ). A 3rd party may be needed if Detroit's preference is a defensive SF But that would be the framework. Ageing wet for rookie scale upside & salary flexibilty. (Potentially package the 5th with a future firstt to move up for a preferred target) My preference would be for Brandon Miller, if possible. Pels deciding to not risk both their stars watching from the bench again, which could turn into a reset haul & financial flexibility.

On top of the financial issues concerning the top 3 players. This Pels team showed their 3 stars had a hard time sharing the court though small sample size due to said injury concens. Where it may start to make sense to part with one of the 2 main young players... In choosing to keep the upside of Zion, (Brandon Miller) in the 2/3 range could reset BI while netting additional value & flexibility trading proven for unproven. No move is without it's risk. As their is risk in keepiing inkury prone players to. Portland the target again with Lilliard wanting to win now & them having the 3rd overall pick where Miller could be a nice cheap replacement for BI or Scoot for better ball protection & playmaking out the guard slot, which was also lacking. Poor floor management had many players with a high TO rates this past yr. Zion/BI can initiate the offense but the team needs a guard who can dictate the pace & control the flow. Reason CP3's addition to the Suns. catapulted their surrounding talent that was sputtering prior to his addition. Someone to orchestrate the surrounding talent.

I've been out the lloop but will try to get back into the swing of things.

[Whole Truth]

(BI) to Charlotte for (Hayward, #2)

(Hayward) to Detroit for (# 5, fillers/expiring value)

Pels recieve for (BI) - (#2 Scoot or Miller, #5 Amen or Whitmoore), fillers/expiring value)

Combo upsode value of either Scoot & Whitmoore or Miller & Amen.

Of course the salaries & value may need to be adjusteded but this would be the basic framework.

[Whole Truth]

After Shams tweet of Pels interest for Scoop. A tweet from a Charlotte insider says Kupcheks was blown away by Scoot in their private workout

LMAO..

Try harder Kupchek.. Pels know Scoot & Lamelo would be a hard fit.

[Whole Truth]

According to Locked On NBA Host Rafael Barlowe, the draft analyst has "heard" trade talks centered around Houston and All-Star forward Zion Williamson.

Houston trade - (18m TE, Jabari Smith, #4, 2 Nets future first/s)

Detroit trade - (Bogdonvic, 5m filler, #5) for (Hayward future first/s)

Charlote trade - (Hayward, #2) for (Bogdonovic, #4, #5)

Pels trade - (Zion) for (5m filler from Detroit, 18m TE from Houston, Jabari Smith, #2 Scoot, Nets first/s)


Select Lively at 14

Jonas - JSmith - #14 Lively
BI - Nance
Murphy - Herb
CJ - JRich
#2 Scoot - Jose

+ 18m TE, Nets future first/s.

Value might have to be amended but thiis is the basic concept.

[Duke4life831]

According to Locked On NBA Host Rafael Barlowe, the draft analyst has "heard" trade talks centered around Houston and All-Star forward Zion Williamson.

Houston trade - (18m TE, Jabari Smith, #4, 2 Nets future first/s)

Detroit trade - (Bogdonvic, 5m filler, #5) for (Hayward future first/s)

Charlote trade - (Hayward, #2) for (Bogdonovic, #4, #5)

Pels trade - (Zion) for (5m filler from Detroit, 18m TE from Houston, Jabari Smith, #2 Scoot, Nets first/s)


Select Lively at 14

Jonas - JSmith - #14 Lively
BI - Nance
Murphy - Herb
CJ - JRich
#2 Scoot - Jose

+ 18m TE, Nets future first/s.

Value might have to be amended but thiis is the basic concept.

Seems like a ton of value for Zion. If the Pels can get this, they better say yes and turn those papers to the league as soon as possible.

[Whole Truth]

According to Locked On NBA Host Rafael Barlowe, the draft analyst has "heard" trade talks centered around Houston and All-Star forward Zion Williamson.

Houston trade - (18m TE, Jabari Smith, #4, 2 Nets future first/s)

Detroit trade - (Bogdonvic, 5m filler, #5) for (Hayward future first/s)

Charlote trade - (Hayward, #2) for (Bogdonovic, #4, #5)

Pels trade - (Zion) for (5m filler from Detroit, 18m TE from Houston, Jabari Smith, #2 Scoot, Nets first/s)


Select Lively at 14

Jonas - JSmith - #14 Lively
BI - Nance
Murphy - Herb
CJ - JRich
#2 Scoot - Jose

+ 18m TE, Nets future first/s.

Value might have to be amended but thiis is the basic concept.

Seems like a ton of value for Zion. If the Pels can get this, they better say yes and turn those papers to the league as soon as possible.

I originally had CJ inclidded for Hayward & the Pels giving up a future first to net the Pistons 5th pick. Neither Scoot or Jabari have the upside of Zion but Pels make the secondary move in this deal to get the 5th pick to pair with Houston's 4th pick for Scoot. Injury concerns factored in.. I wasn't sure about Houston having to give up both Jabari & future/s picks. I'd do the deal for Jabari & 4 if 4 led to #2 or #4 & the Nets futures if Houston want to keep Jabari to pair with Zion but for no less. If Zion's value has dipped below Jabari & #4, I wouldn't trade him. Value is relative to want & need.. How much would Houston, the worst team in the league value the addition Zion/ticket sales ?. I have division tax on the deal aswell. They would still have the Nets picks to help build around his 5yr controll, if it's Just Jabari & #4..

Trade 1 -

Houston trade - (16m TE, Jabari Smith, KJ Martin, #4, Nets 2025) For (Zion)

Trade 2 -

Detroit trade - (Bogdonvic, 5m filler, #5) for (Hayward, Nets 2025)

Dallas trade - (#10, filler) for for (KJ Martin, #14)

Charlote trade - (Hayward, #2) for (Bogdonovic, #4, #5, Bucks 2027)

Pels trade - (#4, Nets 2025, Bucks 2027, KJ Martin) for (5m filler from Detroit,, #2 Scoot, #10)

[Whole Truth]

Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com

The Trail Blazers, league sources say, continue to intimate that they are prepared to package Anfernee Simons with the No. 3 overall pick in a trade to acquire win-now talent to place alongside star guard Damian Lillard.

[Whole Truth]

Charlotte reportedly want BI.

Charlotte trade - (Hayward, #2 Scoot) for (BI)

Portland trade - (Simons, #3 Miller) for (Hayward, #5 Witmore, Pels FRP)

Detroit trade - (Bogdonovic, #5) for (Simons, Daniels)

Pels trade - (BI, Daniels, FRP) for (Bogdonovic, #2 Scoot, #3 Miller) & Draft Lively at 14

[Duke4life831]

Charlotte reportedly want BI.

Charlotte trade - (Hayward, #2 Scoot) for (BI)

Portland trade - (Simons, #3 Miller) for (Hayward, #5 Witmore, Pels FRP)

Detroit trade - (Bogdonovic, #5) for (Simons, Daniels)

Pels trade - (BI, Daniels, FRP) for (Bogdonovic, #2 Scoot, #3 Miller) & Draft Lively at 14

Like the one before, I think this is too much value for the Pels in return. I dont think Daniels value is any higher than it was last year. 8th overall pick who struggled to stay in the rotation and now has 1 less year of his rookie deal. So say BI gets you #2 (which I think a good chunk will push back on that value), I dont think Daniels and a future 1st (not even this year's 1st) can get you #3.

[Whole Truth]

Charlotte reportedly want BI.

Charlotte trade - (Hayward, #2 Scoot) for (BI)

Portland trade - (Simons, #3 Miller) for (Hayward, #5 Witmore, Pels FRP)

Detroit trade - (Bogdonovic, #5) for (Simons, Daniels)

Pels trade - (BI, Daniels, FRP) for (Bogdonovic, #2 Scoot, #3 Miller) & Draft Lively at 14

Like the one before, I think this is too much value for the Pels in return. I dont think Daniels value is any higher than it was last year. 8th overall pick who struggled to stay in the rotation and now has 1 less year of his rookie deal. So say BI gets you #2 (which I think a good chunk will push back on that value), I dont think Daniels and a future 1st (not even this year's 1st) can get you #3.

I was thinking Dyson still had the relative value of his #8 draft slot. The question is where is Simons value ? Does he have the value to get a team from 8 to 5 ? I didn't think with Detroit wanting a defensive SF that Simons & Dyson was a bad haul for #5 than drafting someone like Cam & adding more unproven talent to a team looking to make some progress towards a PO birth.

I also thought about potentially including Herb over Daniels but would prefer to retain his intangibles.. & would sooner offer a protected FRP with Daniels, than swap Herb for Dyson. Everyteam needs a glue type like Herb.

I was less sure Hayward, #5 & FRP got me from 5 to 3. Than Simons & Dyson #8, reaching the 5th pick teir of prospects in this draft.

[Duke4life831]

Charlotte reportedly want BI.

Charlotte trade - (Hayward, #2 Scoot) for (BI)

Portland trade - (Simons, #3 Miller) for (Hayward, #5 Witmore, Pels FRP)

Detroit trade - (Bogdonovic, #5) for (Simons, Daniels)

Pels trade - (BI, Daniels, FRP) for (Bogdonovic, #2 Scoot, #3 Miller) & Draft Lively at 14

Like the one before, I think this is too much value for the Pels in return. I dont think Daniels value is any higher than it was last year. 8th overall pick who struggled to stay in the rotation and now has 1 less year of his rookie deal. So say BI gets you #2 (which I think a good chunk will push back on that value), I dont think Daniels and a future 1st (not even this year's 1st) can get you #3.

I was thinking Dyson still had the relative value of his #8 draft slot. The question is where is Simons value ? Does he have the value to get a team from 8 to 5 ? I didn't think with Detroit wanting a defensive SF that Simons & Dyson was a bad haul for #5 than drafting someone like Cam & adding more unproven talent to a team looking to make some progress towards a PO birth.

I also thought about potentially including Herb over Daniels but would prefer to retain his intangibles.. & would sooner offer a protected FRP with Daniels, than swap Herb for Dyson. Everyteam needs a glue type like Herb.

I was less sure Hayward, #5 & FRP got me from 5 to 3. Than Simons & Dyson #8, reaching the 5th pick teir of prospects in this draft.

The way Im looking at it, even if Dyson held his value at #8, I dont think #8 and a future 1st gets you to #3. And dont get me wrong, I do think his value has dropped some, but not major. I dont think Dyson had a horrible 1st year, it was actually pretty close to what I expected. I thought with his offensive struggles he would struggle to consistently be in the rotation. But its not like he is a bust either, he showed a clear NBA skill set with his defense. So really the biggest hit to his value to me is just losing the 1 year of control on the contract and 1 year of a cheap rookie deal. If I were to put a number on it, Id say probably worth pick 11 or 12.

And I do agree 100%, Im trading Dyson before Herb.

[Whole Truth]

The way Im looking at it, even if Dyson held his value at #8, I dont think #8 and a future 1st gets you to #3. And dont get me wrong, I do think his value has dropped some, but not major. I dont think Dyson had a horrible 1st year, it was actually pretty close to what I expected. I thought with his offensive struggles he would struggle to consistently be in the rotation. But its not like he is a bust either, he showed a clear NBA skill set with his defense. So really the biggest hit to his value to me is just losing the 1 year of control on the contract and 1 year of a cheap rookie deal. If I were to put a number on it, Id say probably worth pick 11 or 12.

And I do agree 100%, Im trading Dyson before Herb.

I seem to have placed too much value on Dyson. Here's the thing, value is also relative to want, need & preference. Detroit's looking for a proven defensive SF & as u state Dyson has proven that NBA skill & they won't get a much better defensive fit for that want & need than with Dyson & his upside plus the additional value of Simons apposed to just drafting Cam for instance.

Where do you have Simons value ? I also don't have him being ablt to get from 11-12 to 5.

So I think it would come down to how Detroit would ootentially value the prospect of Daniels defensive fit. I wouldn't be apposed to adding a FRP if it led to #5 jumping to #3, Cam to Miller.

How would you compare the prospect of Whitmore to Dyson ? I think these 2 prospects are too close to add too much more value than Simons but wouldn't be apposed if it meant leading to Miller at 3..

[Duke4life831]

The way Im looking at it, even if Dyson held his value at #8, I dont think #8 and a future 1st gets you to #3. And dont get me wrong, I do think his value has dropped some, but not major. I dont think Dyson had a horrible 1st year, it was actually pretty close to what I expected. I thought with his offensive struggles he would struggle to consistently be in the rotation. But its not like he is a bust either, he showed a clear NBA skill set with his defense. So really the biggest hit to his value to me is just losing the 1 year of control on the contract and 1 year of a cheap rookie deal. If I were to put a number on it, Id say probably worth pick 11 or 12.

And I do agree 100%, Im trading Dyson before Herb.

I seem to have placed too much value on Dyson. Here's the thing, value is also relative to want, need & preference. Detroit's looking for a proven defensive SF & as u state Dyson has proven that NBA skill & they won't get a much better defensive fit for that want & need than with Dyson & his upside plus the additional value of Simons apposed to just drafting Cam for instance.

Where do you have Simons value ? I also don't have him being ablt to get from 11-12 to 5.

So I think it would come down to how Detroit would ootentially value the prospect of Daniels defensive fit. I wouldn't be apposed to adding a FRP if it led to #5 jumping to #3, Cam to Miller.

How would you compare the prospect of Whitmore to Dyson ?

Ya I dont have Simons at that kind of value either. Im lower on Simons than most, his contract isnt horrible (18% of the cap for the next 3 years), but ya I dont think adding just him is going to vault you too high in the draft (especially when talking top 10 picks).

When it comes to Cam vs Dyson, I like Dyson more as a prospect entering the draft than I did Dyson last year. I just did my top 10 board and I got Cam at #5. To be fair Im also not a fan of Miller's game at all and if I had the choice, I would stay at 5 and take Cam instead of trying to jump to 3 to get Miller. But I know Im in the minority on that one.

Also on just a complete side bar. Im a big fan of Scoot, but I really dont like the idea of the Pels trading up in the draft. Honestly the only trade up in the draft I would be thinking about is listening to the grape vine and seeing if Lively will be there at 14 or not. I'd trade up to like 12 to get him. I like the fit there a lot.

Im also not against the idea of trading one of Zion or BI. I just dont like the idea of trading them for draft position. Id rather trade one of them for a legit player who is in their mid 20s. Try and get this summer's version of Donovan Mitchell. If youre trading Zion, BI is already 25, you already have CJ on the team as well. It would be dumb in my opinion to kind of do a soft rebuild using Zion to get another teenager. And if youre trading BI, Zion is already off his rookie deal and that dude can use as many vets around him as possible, not another immature teenager.

And if the main part of it is the financial aspect, well CJ should be the guy that goes even though you wont get much in return.

[Whole Truth]

The way Im looking at it, even if Dyson held his value at #8, I dont think #8 and a future 1st gets you to #3. And dont get me wrong, I do think his value has dropped some, but not major. I dont think Dyson had a horrible 1st year, it was actually pretty close to what I expected. I thought with his offensive struggles he would struggle to consistently be in the rotation. But its not like he is a bust either, he showed a clear NBA skill set with his defense. So really the biggest hit to his value to me is just losing the 1 year of control on the contract and 1 year of a cheap rookie deal. If I were to put a number on it, Id say probably worth pick 11 or 12.

And I do agree 100%, Im trading Dyson before Herb.

I seem to have placed too much value on Dyson. Here's the thing, value is also relative to want, need & preference. Detroit's looking for a proven defensive SF & as u state Dyson has proven that NBA skill & they won't get a much better defensive fit for that want & need than with Dyson & his upside plus the additional value of Simons apposed to just drafting Cam for instance.

Where do you have Simons value ? I also don't have him being ablt to get from 11-12 to 5.

So I think it would come down to how Detroit would ootentially value the prospect of Daniels defensive fit. I wouldn't be apposed to adding a FRP if it led to #5 jumping to #3, Cam to Miller.

How would you compare the prospect of Whitmore to Dyson ?

Ya I dont have Simons at that kind of value either. Im lower on Simons than most, his contract isnt horrible (18% of the cap for the next 3 years), but ya I dont think adding just him is going to vault you too high in the draft (especially when talking top 10 picks).

When it comes to Cam vs Dyson, I like Dyson more as a prospect entering the draft than I did Dyson last year. I just did my top 10 board and I got Cam at #5. To be fair Im also not a fan of Miller's game at all and if I had the choice, I would stay at 5 and take Cam instead of trying to jump to 3 to get Miller. But I know Im in the minority on that one.

Also on just a complete side bar. Im a big fan of Scoot, but I really dont like the idea of the Pels trading up in the draft. Honestly the only trade up in the draft I would be thinking about is listening to the grape vine and seeing if Lively will be there at 14 or not. I'd trade up to like 12 to get him. I like the fit there a lot.

Im also not against the idea of trading one of Zion or BI. I just dont like the idea of trading them for draft position. Id rather trade one of them for a legit player who is in their mid 20s. Try and get this summer's version of Donovan Mitchell. If youre trading Zion, BI is already 25, you already have CJ on the team as well. It would be dumb in my opinion to kind of do a soft rebuild using Zion to get another teenager. And if youre trading BI, Zion is already off his rookie deal and that dude can use as many vets around him as possible, not another immature teenager.

And if the main part of it is the financial aspect, well CJ should be the guy that goes even though you wont get much in return.

For me trading BI for another player in his mid 20's doesn't make sense other than for injury concerns. I'd otherwise retain BI in that scenario. Here's why I'd use BI to trade into the #2 draft slot for Scoot. The teams ceiling ultimately lies with Zion's health but he's rarely jhealthy. Having that rookie scale talent reset for the duration of Zion's 5yr contract manages the cap situation better, resets BI's talent to cost control, youth development (where this team is young) & prevents the team from tredmilling with BI's or similar young talent. If Zion goes down in this scenario you turn to development & draft in his almost expected absence. You either have ZIon & are competing or young & developing talent for the draft. A better timeline to wait on Zion's health/5yr potential. BI wants to win & will be a FA in 2yrs, NO's avoid the potential of him looking for greener pastures if the player they''ve decided to build around (Zion) is never availabe, which is a strong possibility. Not to mention BI's own potential health concerns combined into 2 max contracts with considerable health risk which could handcuff the small markets financial future. It's not about the ability to attrack a max free agent either but more overall flexibility which trading for CJfurther handicapped & contributed to more risk with a potential declinging talent on the wrong side of 30. IMO not good to have that kind of money tied up into so much potential risk. Then there's Murphy's potential. He's in need of PT & development but is behind BI starting. In the potential absense of BI, Murphy can effectively space the court & has great chemistry next to a healthy Zion's gravity/ His availability eases the potential loss of BI also at a better price point than targeting an expensive talent replacement. Murphy in relation to BI puts up offense without the shot attempts or usage. He's more of a complimentary fit as I think both Zion & BI have played their individual best apart. Not that they haven't played well when together.

BI is great at initiating the offense, creating for himself & others but he's also TO prone. Lots of careless TO's, when he has to handle the ball too much, Zion too. Whereas netting a high upside PG prospect like Scoot fills a bigger void IMO. Someone who can both run an effective PNR, control the flow/pace of the team & protect the ball better. That absense of ball protection is seen in the team wide high TO rate under CJ initiating the offense. Basically I'm saying even if BI was the better individual talent, the PG prospect could elevate the entire team better combined with a reset of age, salary & talent as they wait on Zion to come into his own.

If in the case Zion is not available... It's also easier with a rookie developing to transition back to the draft outside the financial & controal benefits .

[Whole Truth]

Charlotte having both Scoot & Miller back for a 2nd work out.

They probably like Scoot more than Miller but here's the problem. Scoots main issue is his range, so an off ball fit with Lamelo would make the potential pairing in the backcourt a hard one. Scoot plays the same position as their current franchise player Lamelo which gives them overlap, as both are at their best, on ball, driving & playmaking. Most likely why they've had rumored preference for drafting Miller & Rumored preference trading for BI, as an alternative to just taking Scoot.

BI, a young proven 3 level scorer & playmaker, is everything Charlotte could hope Miller would develop into. In the case Charlotte likes Miller at #2. Trading for BI cuts the development stage & turns their team into an immediate threat to make the PO's & generate ticket sales under new ownership.

In the case they prefer Scoot. BI & Lamelo are also a percieved better pairing than trying to pair a small guard that can't shoot with Lamelo in the backcourt where both guards needi the ball in their hands to be their individual best driving & playmaking. In this scenario, trading for BI prevents talent overlap & turns their team into an imediate threat to make the PO's & generate ticket sales under new ownership.

Why would NO's take the risk under the same reasoning to trade proven talent for unproven ?

Ultimately, NO's is riding Zion's potential through his injury concerns. NO's goes as Zion goes. So while Murphy is not the individual talent BI is. When healthy, Zion's gravity makes Murphy a great fitting role player with his ability to space the court & score without the shot attempts or high usage whcih could effectively replace the loss of BI. He won't be able to carry the team like BI if Zion goes down but this also benefits the teams direction, as NO's could seamlessly turn to development & draft in that likely scenario tradoing BI for Scoot apposed to treadmilling. Murphy, Herb & Scoot all on rookie scale & control factoring into to BI's upcoming max contract in 2yrs. NO's have alot of money tied up in 3 max contracts with considerable risk attached, from high injury risk to potential decline. Trading Bi before his max contract reset both the cap & his talent with the risk factor of Scoot failing to realize his potential.

IMO, Murphy's role playing fit at BI's position, Scoots upside at a position of need & the rooke scale/control financial reset makes the risk reward of trading BI for Scoot worth the risk of trading proven for unproven. As keeping BI has it's own risk for NO's. Imagine maxing BI to the highest paid player with 3 max contracts with his injury concerns, he goes down later in his career with that salary he'd be unmovable capping the teams financial future for the foreseable.

NO's also need to eventially find a new home for CJ & a replacement for Jonas which they can with Lively at #14.

Jonas - #14 lively/Hermangomez
Zion - Nance/Hayes
Murphy - Daniels/Naji
CJ - Herb/Kira
#2 Scoot - Jose/Daniels

+ financial reset from BI's incoming max to rookie scale of Scoot & Haywards expiring.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't think you're wrong with a bit of a timeline reset, especially if the franchise sees Scoot as potentially higher ceiling than Ingram's as a likely case.

I think Dyson and Herb are both so excellent defensively and as connective pieces, you have to believe at least one turns into a decent shooter, right? Whoever that is first gets to be a long term starter for us IMO in that scenario.