NBA 2023 Draft

[Whole Truth]

I don't think you're wrong with a bit of a timeline reset, especially if the franchise sees Scoot as potentially higher ceiling than Ingram's as a likely case.

I think Dyson and Herb are both so excellent defensively and as connective pieces, you have to believe at least one turns into a decent shooter, right? Whoever that is first gets to be a long term starter for us IMO in that scenario.

Stating the obvious, I think Daniels has more overall talent & potential but prefer Herbs feel & IQ for the game. I don't think Daniels ever touches Herb in that aspect. Much like a Superstar player without the compete level vs a Jimmy Butler ..

Concerning the timeline. With all the injury concerns, Zion's age & 5yr control. Keeping him is almost as though the young team has turned to youth & development anyway, with the chance he might play.. Scoot on rookie scale control & development fits right into that timeline. Whereas BI wants to contend & will be up for a massive extension in 2yrs. Where if this Zion injury bug continues, it won't be hard to see the young talented team treadmilling with BI where some team could swoop in to some reserve of NO's not wanting to potentially handicap themselves financially with a 500 team..Adding further risk, as BI also has a bit of injury concern & will be getting older .. & possibly more injury riddled.where NO's could back themselves into a corner financially with the team having proven nothing as of yet.

For me Scoot doesn't have to end up better than BI in this scenario for the deal to be a good move.

Pros
- Murphy is a great role player & spacing fir with Zion's gravity, proven. He gets to develop as a starter on rookie scale, first contract vs Bi's super max & injury concerns.
Cons
He won't be able to carry the team in the event Zion goes down not being as talented/deve;oped as BI but this negative leads to the positive of a better draft pick in the event of Zion being injured. No treadmilling. They either compete with Zion or turn to development & draft with the young & raw (Scoot( team.

Pros
- Financially, NO's would be trading a supermax tied to a non superstar with injury concerns as he ages for rookie scale, control & flexibility
Cons
- none

Pros
- Scoot, even if he' doesn't end up as talented as BI. With Murphy filling an adequate hole at BI's position SF. Scoot upgrades the one spot on roster in need of a clear upgrade. The team wide high TO rate is a direct result of not having someone to QB the team. Control the flow/pace & take care of the ball. Run simple PNR action for their Superstar bigman & even Jonas who is a great PNR bigman. The fact that neither big man gets utilized in this action is a travesty. Part reason Zion went down to injury taking the most difficult shots at the rim (packed paint) & offensive predictability. Give him the ball & get out the way type offense, lol.
Cons
- Unknown rookie could bust expectations.

However there's risk in not trading aswell. At the same level of negativity concerning Scoot's worst case scenario outcome. Pels could get stuck with an injured BI on a supermax with no flexibiltity. The question is where do you feel comfortable placing your bets. IMO, Scoot busting his potential doesn't handicap the team. As with the risk concerning a Zion injury, Pels won't be treadmilling in a youth & development move, a seamless transition from having Zion to high draft pick. Whereas, even without a major injury as BI ages, he hasn't been a bill of health/available heading for a supermax contract, which will kill the teams flexibility to retain it's young talent & to manuever other avenues of trade, regain his lost value. Pels will still find itself in need of the draft but with the long root. A similar outcome if Scoot were to bust his potential without the fliexibility issues & tax problem.

Depening on how people look at thing,s everything has it's pros & cons, which is why I always say happiness, is a state of mind. I'm sure someone could make an equally compelling argument for keeping BI.

[NO-KG-AI]

I’d be excited going into the season either way tbh. I am a big fan of scoot as well. I think it’s all smoke and Charlotte takes him and rolls with it and doesn’t risk the blowback of trading a #2 pick, or taking Miller.

I think you’re right about Herb too. I hope he and Jose are here for a decade. I think anyone coming in should be able to see those guys as examples of how to work, be selfless, and be high energy no matter the stakes. Any guy coming here looking to carve out a role here will have a prime example. They are what you want your org to be about.

[Whole Truth]

Saw a rumor that Zion might be the one getting traded. Would explain the other rumor stating Charlotte would prefer BI. Read as though he's not the one being offered but a preference of option. Also In combination with a Zion recent rumored meeting with GM & owner.

Zion is 22 to BI's 25. Both are injury prone, Zion more so. BI Stands to have a worse contract without options but wants to be here, Zion off court bad press concerning hookers & religous owner in light of his public fadelity, who knows.

Logically it makes more sense to keep the younger higher upside talent under 5yr control but I could see the argument for keeping BI over Zion. Not sure who would be effectively playing PF where Murphy slots in seamlessly for BI... Not an overall seamless transition to me but as I mentioned. Everything has it's pros & cons depending on how one loooks at the situation.

[Whole Truth]

I’d be excited going into the season either way tbh. I am a big fan of scoot as well. I think it’s all smoke and Charlotte takes him and rolls with it and doesn’t risk the blowback of trading a #2 pick, or taking Miller.

I think you’re right about Herb too. I hope he and Jose are here for a decade. I think anyone coming in should be able to see those guys as examples of how to work, be selfless, and be high energy no matter the stakes. Any guy coming here looking to carve out a role here will have a prime example. They are what you want your org to be about.

With Scoot's main weakness being his range I see him & their other #2 franchise player Lamelo being a hard fit & overlapping talent. Both are more effective with the ball driving & dishing.. IDK You may be right, they might not want the negativity of a trade flopping but their GM already once believed in BI at the same draft slot but he's now a 3 level player & improving... so u never know.

I think the Zion rumors are more risky but both NO's stars could lead to ticket sales than drafting another unknwon entity who plays the same position as their current FP. Reason IMO Miller was first linked as their preferred interest. BI is what they hope Miller could become.

Nothing may come of it but I think it's more than smoke. This trade makes sense to me for both sides where both teams could benefit as trades should be.

[Whole Truth]

Draymond Green is hitting free agency. If Pels can get a large enough TE/cap space in trading either Zion or BI.... he'd be a good target as rim protector & vocal leader. Draft Lively at 14 for him to mentor for the future.

[JustBuzzin]

I’d be excited going into the season either way tbh. I am a big fan of scoot as well. I think it’s all smoke and Charlotte takes him and rolls with it and doesn’t risk the blowback of trading a #2 pick, or taking Miller.

I think you’re right about Herb too. I hope he and Jose are here for a decade. I think anyone coming in should be able to see those guys as examples of how to work, be selfless, and be high energy no matter the stakes. Any guy coming here looking to carve out a role here will have a prime example. They are what you want your org to be about.

With Scoot's main weakness being his range I see him & their other #2 franchise player Lamelo being a hard fit & overlapping talent. Both are more effective with the ball driving & dishing.. IDK You may be right, they might not want the negativity of a trade flopping but their GM already once believed in BI at the same draft slot but he's now a 3 level player & improving... so u never know.

I think the Zion rumors are more risky but both NO's stars could lead to ticket sales than drafting another unknwon entity who plays the same position as their current FP. Reason IMO Miller was first linked as their preferred interest. BI is what they hope Miller could become.

Nothing may come of it but I think it's more than smoke. This trade makes sense to me for both sides where both teams could benefit as trades should be.

Zion would be worth the gamble for us. We simply don't get generational talent in Charlotte. There is a slim chance Zion turns it around and gets healthy. We just turned out franchise from bottom feeders to championship contenders overnight.


MJ is a gambling man as well. Zion also reps his Jordan brand. Not saying it will happen, but I could see it happening no doubt.

[Whole Truth]

I’d be excited going into the season either way tbh. I am a big fan of scoot as well. I think it’s all smoke and Charlotte takes him and rolls with it and doesn’t risk the blowback of trading a #2 pick, or taking Miller.

I think you’re right about Herb too. I hope he and Jose are here for a decade. I think anyone coming in should be able to see those guys as examples of how to work, be selfless, and be high energy no matter the stakes. Any guy coming here looking to carve out a role here will have a prime example. They are what you want your org to be about.

With Scoot's main weakness being his range I see him & their other #2 franchise player Lamelo being a hard fit & overlapping talent. Both are more effective with the ball driving & dishing.. IDK You may be right, they might not want the negativity of a trade flopping but their GM already once believed in BI at the same draft slot but he's now a 3 level player & improving... so u never know.

I think the Zion rumors are more risky but both NO's stars could lead to ticket sales than drafting another unknwon entity who plays the same position as their current FP. Reason IMO Miller was first linked as their preferred interest. BI is what they hope Miller could become.

Nothing may come of it but I think it's more than smoke. This trade makes sense to me for both sides where both teams could benefit as trades should be.

Zion would be worth the gamble for us. We simply don't get generational talent in Charlotte. There is a slim chance Zion turns it around and gets healthy. We just turned out franchise from bottom feeders to championship contenders overnight.


MJ is a gambling man as well. Zion also reps his Jordan brand. Not saying it will happen, but I could see it happening no doubt.

No decision is without it's risk but I'd say Zion has a greater than slim chance, which is why I was originally behind BI being the one shipped for Scoot until Simmons claimed it was Zion. I thought Pels should keep him for the same reason you state here to get him. Not often a team has a chance for a generational star & everything is a risk. Philly could have sold if they were impatient with Embiid too.

Why I think Zion latest hammy injury is a bit overblown.

Pels fans put a shot chart out showing Zion takes & makes the most difficult shots in the league at a high rate. I put some blame for his hammy injury on his usage, lack of diversity in his game, Pels overall offensive predictability & their lack of effeectuve spacing. It was give him the ball, get out the way let him drive into tripple teams, paint traffic with Jonas man at the rim, Herb's man sagging off him & with everyone in the building knowing what his intent was..

Zion maybe injury prone but I doubt most players could have handled the physicality in whcih he was playing with. I think putting some diversity into his game alone would be helpful, it's not as though he doesn't have some range either, as he has shown he can hit the 3 ball. He just rarely attemots them to throw teams off. So inline with the shot chart post, teams just load up the paint & he bulldozes his way through till... Hammy injury. From my perspective it was almost inevitable even if he was a healthy player to begin with. He was just inviting too much contact in traffic on a constant basis for nothing to happen IMO.

[JustBuzzin]

With Scoot's main weakness being his range I see him & their other #2 franchise player Lamelo being a hard fit & overlapping talent. Both are more effective with the ball driving & dishing.. IDK You may be right, they might not want the negativity of a trade flopping but their GM already once believed in BI at the same draft slot but he's now a 3 level player & improving... so u never know.

I think the Zion rumors are more risky but both NO's stars could lead to ticket sales than drafting another unknwon entity who plays the same position as their current FP. Reason IMO Miller was first linked as their preferred interest. BI is what they hope Miller could become.

Nothing may come of it but I think it's more than smoke. This trade makes sense to me for both sides where both teams could benefit as trades should be.

Zion would be worth the gamble for us. We simply don't get generational talent in Charlotte. There is a slim chance Zion turns it around and gets healthy. We just turned out franchise from bottom feeders to championship contenders overnight.


MJ is a gambling man as well. Zion also reps his Jordan brand. Not saying it will happen, but I could see it happening no doubt.

No decision is without it's risk but I'd say Zion has a greater than slim chance, which is why I was originally behind BI being the one shipped for Scoot until Simmons claimed it was Zion. I thought Pels should keep him for the same reason you state here to get him. Not often a team has a chance for a generational star & everything is a risk. Philly could have sold if they were impatient with Embiid too.

Why I think Zion latest hammy injury is a bit overblown.

Pels fans put a shot chart out showing Zion takes & makes the most difficult shots in the league at a high rate. I put some blame for his hammy injury on his usage, lack of diversity in his game, Pels overall offensive predictability & their lack of effeectuve spacing. It was give him the ball, get out the way let him drive into tripple teams, paint traffic with Jonas man at the rim, Herb's man sagging off him & with everyone in the building knowing what his intent was..

Zion maybe injury prone but I doubt most players could have handled the physicality in whcih he was playing with. I think putting some diversity into his game alone would be helpful, it's not as though he doesn't have some range either, as he has shown he can hit the 3 ball. He just rarely attemots them to throw teams off. So inline with the shot chart post, teams just load up the paint & he bulldozes his way through till... Hammy injury. From my perspective it was almost inevitable even if he was a healthy player to begin with. He was just inviting too much contact in traffic on a constant basis for nothing to happen IMO.

Zion needs to get back down to his Duke weight which I think was 260ish.

Dude has been playing closer to 300 in the NBA. That's why he always dealing with injuries. 300 pound men aren't made to be jumping that high and landing with all that weight on your joints. Just not good for him health wise.

If he can get back down to 260 I think we will see him stay healthy.

[Whole Truth]

Zion would be worth the gamble for us. We simply don't get generational talent in Charlotte. There is a slim chance Zion turns it around and gets healthy. We just turned out franchise from bottom feeders to championship contenders overnight.


MJ is a gambling man as well. Zion also reps his Jordan brand. Not saying it will happen, but I could see it happening no doubt.

No decision is without it's risk but I'd say Zion has a greater than slim chance, which is why I was originally behind BI being the one shipped for Scoot until Simmons claimed it was Zion. I thought Pels should keep him for the same reason you state here to get him. Not often a team has a chance for a generational star & everything is a risk. Philly could have sold if they were impatient with Embiid too.

Why I think Zion latest hammy injury is a bit overblown.

Pels fans put a shot chart out showing Zion takes & makes the most difficult shots in the league at a high rate. I put some blame for his hammy injury on his usage, lack of diversity in his game, Pels overall offensive predictability & their lack of effeectuve spacing. It was give him the ball, get out the way let him drive into tripple teams, paint traffic with Jonas man at the rim, Herb's man sagging off him & with everyone in the building knowing what his intent was..

Zion maybe injury prone but I doubt most players could have handled the physicality in whcih he was playing with. I think putting some diversity into his game alone would be helpful, it's not as though he doesn't have some range either, as he has shown he can hit the 3 ball. He just rarely attemots them to throw teams off. So inline with the shot chart post, teams just load up the paint & he bulldozes his way through till... Hammy injury. From my perspective it was almost inevitable even if he was a healthy player to begin with. He was just inviting too much contact in traffic on a constant basis for nothing to happen IMO.

Zion needs to get back down to his Duke weight which I think was 260ish.

Dude has been playing closer to 300 in the NBA. That's why he always dealing with injuries. 300 pound men aren't made to be jumping that high and landing with all that weight on your joints. Just not good for him health wise.

If he can get back down to 260 I think we will see him stay healthy.

His weight was down last season. It's a clause in his contract where he loses money if he's playing above 260. He hired a personal chef etc.. I don't know exactly the weight he was actually playing at but I'm certain it was down from his first couple seasons. Maybe someone in here can clarify

[Whole Truth]

That's the next thing. In a couple yrs when NO's have to extend BI to a supermax under the new CBA. Zion will actually also have the better contract with team benefitial clauses.

[JustBuzzin]

No decision is without it's risk but I'd say Zion has a greater than slim chance, which is why I was originally behind BI being the one shipped for Scoot until Simmons claimed it was Zion. I thought Pels should keep him for the same reason you state here to get him. Not often a team has a chance for a generational star & everything is a risk. Philly could have sold if they were impatient with Embiid too.

Why I think Zion latest hammy injury is a bit overblown.

Pels fans put a shot chart out showing Zion takes & makes the most difficult shots in the league at a high rate. I put some blame for his hammy injury on his usage, lack of diversity in his game, Pels overall offensive predictability & their lack of effeectuve spacing. It was give him the ball, get out the way let him drive into tripple teams, paint traffic with Jonas man at the rim, Herb's man sagging off him & with everyone in the building knowing what his intent was..

Zion maybe injury prone but I doubt most players could have handled the physicality in whcih he was playing with. I think putting some diversity into his game alone would be helpful, it's not as though he doesn't have some range either, as he has shown he can hit the 3 ball. He just rarely attemots them to throw teams off. So inline with the shot chart post, teams just load up the paint & he bulldozes his way through till... Hammy injury. From my perspective it was almost inevitable even if he was a healthy player to begin with. He was just inviting too much contact in traffic on a constant basis for nothing to happen IMO.

Zion needs to get back down to his Duke weight which I think was 260ish.

Dude has been playing closer to 300 in the NBA. That's why he always dealing with injuries. 300 pound men aren't made to be jumping that high and landing with all that weight on your joints. Just not good for him health wise.

If he can get back down to 260 I think we will see him stay healthy.

His weight was down last season. It's a clause in his contract where he loses money if he's playing above 260. He hired a personal chef etc.. I don't know exactly the weight he was actually playing at but I'm certain it was down from his first couple seasons. Maybe someone in here can clarify

Eye test there is no way Zion was below 260. That dude was probably 280 which was down from the previous season which he was reportedly close to 300 pounds.

Charles Barkley was 250 in his prime and he look a lot more slimmer than Zion looks right now.

[DusterBuster]

Zion needs to get back down to his Duke weight which I think was 260ish.

Dude has been playing closer to 300 in the NBA. That's why he always dealing with injuries. 300 pound men aren't made to be jumping that high and landing with all that weight on your joints. Just not good for him health wise.

If he can get back down to 260 I think we will see him stay healthy.

His weight was down last season. It's a clause in his contract where he loses money if he's playing above 260. He hired a personal chef etc.. I don't know exactly the weight he was actually playing at but I'm certain it was down from his first couple seasons. Maybe someone in here can clarify

Eye test there is no way Zion was below 260. That dude was probably 280 which was down from the previous season which he was reportedly close to 300 pounds.

Charles Barkley was 250 in his prime and he look a lot more slimmer than Zion looks right now.

The real problem with Zion’s weight and training is that because he’s not very consistent in it, he’s constantly in a gaining phase, so when he works out he isn’t getting slimmer, he’s just getting stronger. That’s great, but it keeps his body heavy, it just is fluctuating between muscle and fat weight vs actually slimming down in a weight loss phase and then work on strength training.

[Whole Truth]

Clippers looking to follow suit with their 2 injury riddled stars, making PG available in trade.

Options for teams looking to accelerate their rebuild into contention.

- PG wrong side of 30, max contract & growing injury concerns
- BI 25 entering his prime, max contract & some injury concern
- Zion, only 22, generational talent, max contract with team benefitial clauses & injury concern.

IMO the one option that makes the most sense for both parties is BI.

For NO's in the soft reset. They're still banking on Zion''s generational talent at 22 with 5 yrs control. Getting a young player back to develop with a top pick falls in line with a young team developing & hoping Zion puts it together where his contract in 2yrs will be seen as bette than what will be handed out to BI for retention if he even decides to reup.. Pels will now have the rookie scale of Scoot to offset Zions max & a young development timeline to wait on Zion to put it together.

BI is a more stable risk for a team trying to contend but also a young player entering his prime & getting better, that they have a future beyond risking contention to help retain future value of trading their pick. Whereas, PG is exiting his prime, with growing injury concern.

Murphy is not as big a downgrade from BI when paired with Zion's gravity. Trading Zion, Pels have no viable replacement at PF other than stop gap options that are overmatched physically on most nights.

IMO
Jonas - #14 Lively - Hermangomez
Zion - Nance - Hayes
Murphy - Daniels
CJ - Herb
Scoot - Jose - Kira

is a better rounded team with a clearer direction both ways with the ceiling of Zion & the youth talent to develop rebuild, draft in his potential absence & financial health than

Jonas = Jonas
Herb < Zion
BI > Murphy (effective chemistry & spacing with Zions gravity. Minimal touchers & usage required to be an effective scorer)
Murphy < CJ at SG
CJ < Scoot at PG

With BI in 2yrs set to earn more money than Zion currently,.

[DusterBuster]

For whatever it's worth, Chris Haynes was on Portland sports radio yesterday (he started his career with the Blazers before going to national media). He said pretty unequivocally that Zion Williamson is available.

Read on Twitter

[Whole Truth]

For whatever it's worth, Chris Haynes was on Portland sports radio yesterday (he started his career with the Blazers before going to national media). He said pretty unequivocally that Zion Williamson is available.

Read on Twitter

I was more willing to trade Zion last year when he was on his rookie scale & had more percieved trade value. Another ill timed injry to his newlu minted max contract. has lowered his value. Why sell low in yr 1 of it after committing to a known injury risk player? doesn't make sense. IMO, it now makes more sense to me ligically, to keep him than it did last yr, especially if they were to trade for a draft pick like Scoot. A young raw talent because Zion is 22 with 5yrs control to BI's 25 & 2yrs control for a better timeline in trading for a rookie. Zion gives the team a hgiher ceiling & in a couplde yrs will have the better contract between him & BI which also has benefitial team clauses in it for a potential out financially, if things get worse.

Here's why I think Zion has been made available... Pels have a very religous owner..& I think the news of his fadelity making it into the public eye tarnished not just him but what the ORG is trying to stand for, more so than injury concerns or his recent hammy. As I've shown above, it makes far more sense from top to bottom from a basketball perspect injuries & all factored in to keep Zion over BI in what would be a soft reset scenario. His age, his ceiling, his contract, his control & even his fit with Murphy being an easier replacement for BI at SF than anyone else would be a PF with Zion gone.

Oustide the talking heads weighing in. Owner & GM met with Zion after his fadelity was made public, they fired or let go his internal support system, Weatherspoon. I don't know who Haynes is but the signs were there & I believe it. Don't agree with it but I understand it. The one area BI has over ZIon .. his personality fit with the team & organization.

[DusterBuster]

Oustide the talking heads weighing in. Owner & GM met with Zion after his fadelity was made public, they fired or let go his internal support system, Weatherspoon. I don't know who Haynes is but the signs were there & I believe it. Don't agree with it but I understand it. The one area BI has over ZIon .. his personality fit with the team & organization.

He's a national writer for Bleacher Report and does regular sideline reporting on TNT games. Super well connected reporter.

Interesting stuff about the owner. I can see why he would be fed up and might be telling Griffin that he’s done with him knowing his background.

[Whole Truth]

Oustide the talking heads weighing in. Owner & GM met with Zion after his fadelity was made public, they fired or let go his internal support system, Weatherspoon. I don't know who Haynes is but the signs were there & I believe it. Don't agree with it but I understand it. The one area BI has over ZIon .. his personality fit with the team & organization.

He's a national writer for Bleacher Report and does regular sideline reporting on TNT games. Super well connected reporter.

Interesting stuff about the owner. I can see why he would be fed up and might be telling Griffin that he’s done with him knowing his background.

She...
Wonen tend to operate more on an emotional level than a logical one.

[Whole Truth]

Imagine that meeting was passed off as her a very religous person going to congradulate Zion on his new born out of wedlock & with a pornstar involved. She probably did congradulate him on being a father but I highly doubt that was what the meeting was about, with GM present.

Mills went from saying the trade rumors were just noise to drown out the negative press to blackmailing Zion if NO's don't trade him. I'm assuming she came nto knowledge that a trade was a real possibility & not just noise as we are seeing & hearing more than smoke..

[Whole Truth]

Don't know why but I feel Murphy representing at the draft has some signifacance to it.

[Whole Truth]

It's starting to make sense now why Zion could be the one on the table.

Duster I saw your post on the Blazzers board that Houston is trying to trade upto 2 leap frog Portland for Scoot. Their interest for Zion is well documented.

BUt what Would Pels do for a PF replacement --- Houston has Jabari Smith who Griff also coveted. Smith & #2 Scoot package for Zion would make sense in retaining BI in that trade scenario.

I think Jabari #4 would be a preference to Griff than say Sharpe & #3... Houston involved & trying to trade past Portland with Lilliard wanting to contend gives Griff & NO's some nice leverage over the #3 pick.

How does Portland compensate Griffs preference for Smith's game & fit if Houston can get to #2 ?

Would Charlotte risk losing Miller at 3 for Cam & additional assets at 4 ?.

It would be interesting to know what Houston is potentially offering to move up & or if Pels are in on helping them move from 4 to 2 so they can get Smith included with Scoot to replace Zion's potential to a degree at the position.

Pels trade Zion for - Smith, Scoot future FRP with one FRP going to Charlotte to drop down from 2 to 4 for a better fitting prospect to Lamelo. Maybe another young player/asset from Houston, which would put Portland trying to appease Lilliard in a bind where Zion & Pels are concerned.