Bynum vs. Shaq

[tsherkin]

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See I like your foul drawing ability argument. But in this case it happens to be one of the biggest liabilities in NBA history. Granted it puts fouls on the other teams players, but the hack a Shaq was invented for a reason.

Yeah but the hack-a-Shaq has only rarely actually caused a problem for his team; his coach has had to strategize for it but that's always been the weakest argument against Shaq; yes, on the whole, it is damaging to Shaq that he is God-awful and pathetic at the foul line but it has never cost him in a title run. Didn't cost him in '95, and it didn't cost him from 00 to 06, either.

Again, the value of a foul drawn isn't entirely tied up in the free throws that follow; the pressure Shaq (and now Dwight) exerts on the opposition frontcourt is IMMENSE and significant in that he can often reduce the overall caliber of their interior defense by making the players play more tentatively...

Or not at all.

And he could go oh-for at the foul line and still do that. You draw enough fouls, then the whole TEAM is shooting free throws whether the fouls are in the act of shooting or not and that has considerably higher value than a 70% FT shooter who draws at a much lower rate.

Shaq's Magic, Lakers and Heat have won enough games simply because of the extra FTAs drawn as a result of Shaq aiding his team to put their opponent in the penalty that it overcomes his inexcusable ineptitude at the charity stripe.

[jaypo]

I'd take Bynum over Shaq at this moment, because Shaq is hurt. But putting Shaq on the court vs. Bynum- I mean you're talking about someone with 4 rings vs. someone whose career high in points is in the 20's? Come on.

You're correct, that right now, at this exact moment, I'd take Bynum because Shaq is hurt. But when healthy, there's no question. Even his coach said he's only playing well for the money!!!

[Baller 24]

Bynum has gotten mins in certain games, actually the most mins hes gotten this yr have been 42 this year, and if he was the 2nd option he would have had at least 30 pts in that game. He still has yet to score 30pts in a game, currently a healthy Shaq would kill Bynum IMO, and I doubt that even in the future Bynum will never be compared to Shaq, I mean come on Laker fans, Shaq is the most dominant center to ever play the game. And currently Kobe is the Lakers first option, 2nd option has to be Lamar, because Bynum's average and mins would be much higher if he was the 2nd option.

[The_Believer]

This season-Bynum, cuz Shaq is washed up and declining. But prime, Shaq without a second thought. Dude was just a monster in his prime.

And TD>>>>> Drew. I'm not a TD fan myself, but he is a CAREER 21-12 guy with two blocks, and is one of the top post players/defenders in the league, even this year.

[jaypo]

I still think TD's defense is overrated. I don't think TD is as good as Shaq was in his prime on defense. People fail to remember that when Shaq was healthy, he was very mobile and quick. I remember many GM's and coaches saying that Shaq was the 1 player in the league that they had to change their whole game plan, offensively and defensively, when they played against his teams.

And I used to love Kobe (until the split), and I think he was always a great player. However, he didn't realize how good he had it with Shaq. I'm not saying Shaq made Kobe great. I'm saying Shaq made the Lakers great. Kobe is a great player, but I think just Shaq (healthy and younger) makes a team better than just Kobe. And until Kobe gets to the finals without Shaq, I'll always believe that. Not to take anything away from Kobe. I think he's the most talented player in the league.

[tsherkin]

I still think TD's defense is overrated. I don't think TD is as good as Shaq was in his prime on defense. People fail to remember that when Shaq was healthy, he was very mobile and quick. I remember many GM's and coaches saying that Shaq was the 1 player in the league that they had to change their whole game plan, offensively and defensively, when they played against his teams.

Of course they had to change their game plan but it had a lot more to do with his offense and the fouls he'd draw against their defense than his own defensive impact.

Tim Duncan is perhaps the best defender the league has seen in over a decade.

[SDChargers#1]

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Of course they had to change their game plan but it had a lot more to do with his offense and the fouls he'd draw against their defense than his own defensive impact.

Tim Duncan is perhaps the best defender the league has seen in over a decade.

Maybe over the 10 year span. I would argue that Dikembe Mutombo of 5 years ago and before was a better defender than TD has ever been.

[Baller 24]

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Of course they had to change their game plan but it had a lot more to do with his offense and the fouls he'd draw against their defense than his own defensive impact.

Tim Duncan is perhaps the best defender the league has seen in over a decade.

I agree, the Spurs since his arrival in 1997 year in and out have been a top 3 defensive team in the league, and Tim Duncan has A LOT to do with that, and the same thing goes for the fact that the Spurs have a 71% winning percentage since 97, Duncan's arrival (best in the league right now).

And btw Shaq is still considered a top 5 center, he is injured now, but when he is healthy he is better then Bynum now. Shaq has had his problems lately, but if you trade players for each other, the Lakers would be twice as good as they are now, and the Miami Heat would be twice as bad. So yes, Id take Shaq, over Bynum just for that reason.

[tsherkin]

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Maybe over the 10 year span. I would argue that Dikembe Mutombo of 5 years ago and before was a better defender than TD has ever been.

Maybe I should rephrase; since Duncan was drafted.

Mutombo was never a more proficient overall defender than Duncan; he was a considerably more prolific shot-blocker and he was actually a very good man defender but Duncan's a lot better about man defense and rotational stuff aside from shot-blocking. He contests a lot more effectively and isn't the type to swat the ball out of bounds and he can stay ground-bound and still make you miss just by rotating too quick for you to counter.

I won't argue too hard though; Deke's defense was ridiculous, without question. I'm not super-keen on him having won the DPOY in 94-95 from the All-Defensive Second Team, I think that should have gone to D-Rob but whatever.

Mutombo was, of course, a defensive rebounding monster and a purely insane shot-blocker.

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And btw Shaq is still considered a top 5 center, he is injured now, but when he is healthy he is better then Bynum now.

When healthy, Shaq is still better than Bynum, yes... but as a scorer, not as a rebounder or defender. And then, it's actually only a marginal difference at this point because Shaq can't get many more FGA on a consistent basis on account of how much he's slowed down and the lingering effects of his injuries.

More to the point, he's never NOT injured anymore and that isn't going to change for the better.

Shaq has had his problems lately, but if you trade players for each other, the Lakers would be twice as good as they are now, and the Miami Heat would be twice as bad. So yes, Id take Shaq, over Bynum just for that reason.

But that's stupid, because Shaq won't ever be as healthy as Bynum ever again. Even if you ignore the long-term ramifications of Shaq's contract and age compared to Bynum, the single-season value of Drew is still much higher than Shaq because he's going to play in more games, rebound more and defend better while scoring in similar fashion (though granted, without the massive DrawF% that Shaq posts; Bynum is drawing fouls at a rate similar to Tim Duncan this year).

[Retrolock]

When Shaq was healthy in that Rockets-Miami game, he dominated Yao, who is better than Bynum. I'd easily take Shaq if he was healthy.

But for now, its Bynum. Although I'd like watch Lakers-Miami with Shaq healthy. Are they gonna still meet this year?

[Hoops Pimp]

People are so stupid. A healthy Shaq over Bynum? I tell you what hit me up when Shaq gets healthy, if he doesn't retire first. What a joke some people are.

[tha_rock220]

I wouldn't pick Andrew Bynum or Robert Swift let alone Shaq.

[Heat3]

People talking like Bynum is the GOAT. There is not a big difference between the two today...

[some_rand]

THIS season i'll still take shaq, he commands more double teams than bynum because he has a much better post game bynum is still very raw in that regard. I would be more confident feeding shaq in the post because you know he can still get it done.

[farzi]

People talking like Bynum is the GOAT. There is not a big difference between the two today...


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Oh lawd.

[exkonvict]

People talking like Bynum is the GOAT. There is not a big difference between the two today...


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Dammit, Shaq is losing it. What a sad way to end a spectacular career.

[jaypo]

In light of recent events, I retract my earlier statement. I would take Shaq at this moment, hurt or not!!!!

[rsavaj]

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Duncan USED to be a top-3 player, he's not a top-3 player this season. Bynum is also improving every week. At the end of the year, I'll be surprised if Bynum doesn't just surpass Duncan outright.

Wow, another Lakers fan I get to add to my sig. Excellent!

[rsavaj]

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hardly. that award goes to either kobe or dwight howard.

Dwight Howard? Come on now...best center in the league? Absolutely. But best player in the league?

[Patterns]

People talking like Bynum is the GOAT. There is not a big difference between the two today...


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22 eff vs 16.