ESPN Insider rumors/speculation
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- ampd
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No to Gortat for all the reasons mentioned. We finally have a good cap situation with youth that looks like it is developing AND we are winning games... We have very little incentive to deal guys like Harris and Henson in a speculative win now trade.
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- Matches Malone
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Gortat with Nash = Superman
Gortat without Nash = Skid marks
Gortat without Nash = Skid marks
Gery Woelfel wrote:Got a time big boy?
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- paul
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Just to highlight exactly how much Nash inflated Gortat's value - a staggering 80% of Gortat's baskets last season were assisted. 80%.
I've never seen a figure even remotely close to that, by way of comparison Bogut scored almost the same amount of ppg for us during FTD and was assisted on 52% of his baskets. Hell DeAndre Jordan who can barely dribble unassisted was assited on less than 70% of his buckets last season.
Like I said, I've never seen a figure like it.
I've never seen a figure even remotely close to that, by way of comparison Bogut scored almost the same amount of ppg for us during FTD and was assisted on 52% of his baskets. Hell DeAndre Jordan who can barely dribble unassisted was assited on less than 70% of his buckets last season.
Like I said, I've never seen a figure like it.
Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
- ampd
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paul wrote:Just to highlight exactly how much Nash inflated Gortat's value - a staggering 80% of Gortat's baskets last season were assisted. 80%.
Wow.
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Gortat is a good NBA player and a legit starter center... which aren't easy to come by.
As I stated previously I think this trade is pretty fair value wise. I just don't think that in the Bucks position that it's a good deal. We are very solid at the center position and Gortat doesn't really make us any better/make us a "higher tier" team.
As I stated previously I think this trade is pretty fair value wise. I just don't think that in the Bucks position that it's a good deal. We are very solid at the center position and Gortat doesn't really make us any better/make us a "higher tier" team.
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- humanrefutation
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I'll do Gortat for Henson and Gooden.
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- LUKE23
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humanrefutation wrote:I'll do Gortat for Henson and Gooden.
No. Just amnesty Gooden this summer.
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- humanrefutation
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LUKE23 wrote:humanrefutation wrote:I'll do Gortat for Henson and Gooden.
No. Just amnesty Gooden this summer.
That might be preferable, but I don't think we're using the amnesty.
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- LUKE23
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I think we could this summer, especially since Gooden is now clearly out of the rotation. Either way, I wouldn't move Henson for 150 games of Gortat. Basically because we just don't need him given our frontcourt and I want to keep any kind of talented youth, since we control their FA, for the most part.
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- Turk Nowitzki
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That original trade proposal is an awful trade, even Hammond isn't dumb enough to do that one.
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Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
LUKE23 wrote:Gortat hasn't really been that great this year, so I don't really agree with this lavish illustration of his game. Lets see how he plays without Nash spoon feeding him dunks all year, so far he's an 11/10 guy at league average TS on a team that plays no defense.
We're like two weeks into the season.
And if the argument on Henson vs. Marshall is just draft position, I can't really agree with that.
I'm speaking purely from a GM perspective in terms of trade value.
I didn't want Marshall in the top 20, for very obvious reasons. Just because Phoenix made a horrible draft decision doesn't mean him and Henson are a wash. If you polled NBA GM's today on Henson vs. Marshall, who is more desirable?
Who the hell knows? Like I said, neither has done anything.
This deal wouldn't make the Bucks better this year given their current roster and the fact they have a GREAT defensive frontcourt, and they sacrifice future assets. It's about as no brainer of a "no" as it gets for Milwaukee.
Of course it'd make the Bucks significantly better this year. We're not going to get much from Henson and Dunleavy is easily the best SF on the team. That's not even debatable. Getting a legit center that can play in an uptempo offense and rebound is going to make the Bucks better, particularly if it means Daly never sees the floor.
Gortat's numbers in Orlando were awesome without Nash on a per/minute basis. All he did in Phoenix was get more minutes.
Right now, Sanders and Udoh are both better defenders and Gortat isn't a good enough offensive player to really make him a huge asset there.
He's got a career oRTG of 115 and 102 dRTG, but whatever.
Like I said, this is a pipe dream because Gortat could get a lot more than Gooden and a SF that hasn't done anything.
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LUKE23 wrote:I think we could this summer, especially since Gooden is now clearly out of the rotation. Either way, I wouldn't move Henson for 150 games of Gortat. Basically because we just don't need him given our frontcourt and I want to keep any kind of talented youth, since we control their FA, for the most part.
Disagree on us using the amnesty, but I respect where you're coming from generally. I just like Gortat.
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Unfortunately, just saying "Gortat makes us significantly better this year" doesn't make it so. Do you honestly think that RIGHT NOW, he's a superior defender to Sanders or Udoh? If your answer is no, then you obviously believe he's a HUGE upgrade offensively.
Take a look at his production per minute in Orlando before Nash, his only decent year was the year he played 7 minutes per game, his year 2 and year 3 weren't impressive at all. Then take a look at the jump with Nash. Then look at how he's playing this year. If you think that's coincidence, fine, I don't. He's not going to be a 17 ppg, .570 TS player or anything close to it. Sig it.
So how's he making us significantly better? If you think he's a better defender right now than Sanders or Udoh then we'll just agree to disagree. And he's never been a guy you throw it in the post to for offense. He's a finisher/spot up shooter type. He doesn't create his own offense.
And again, your "Harris hasn't done anything" isn't true. When he's played, he's been good offensively. And he's f'ing 20.
Take a look at his production per minute in Orlando before Nash, his only decent year was the year he played 7 minutes per game, his year 2 and year 3 weren't impressive at all. Then take a look at the jump with Nash. Then look at how he's playing this year. If you think that's coincidence, fine, I don't. He's not going to be a 17 ppg, .570 TS player or anything close to it. Sig it.
So how's he making us significantly better? If you think he's a better defender right now than Sanders or Udoh then we'll just agree to disagree. And he's never been a guy you throw it in the post to for offense. He's a finisher/spot up shooter type. He doesn't create his own offense.
And again, your "Harris hasn't done anything" isn't true. When he's played, he's been good offensively. And he's f'ing 20.
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Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
LUKE23 wrote:Unfortunately, just saying "Gortat makes us significantly better this year" doesn't make it so. Do you honestly think that RIGHT NOW, he's a superior defender to Sanders or Udoh? If your answer is no, then you obviously believe he's a HUGE upgrade offensively.
Take a look at his production per minute in Orlando before Nash, his only decent year was the year he played 7 minutes per game, his year 2 and year 3 weren't impressive at all. Then take a look at the jump with Nash. Then look at how he's playing this year. If you think that's coincidence, fine, I don't. He's not going to be a 17 ppg, .570 TS player or anything close to it. Sig it.
So how's he making us significantly better? If you think he's a better defender right now than Sanders or Udoh then we'll just agree to disagree. And he's never been a guy you throw it in the post to for offense. He's a finisher/spot up shooter type. He doesn't create his own offense.
And again, your "Harris hasn't done anything" isn't true. When he's played, he's been good offensively. And he's f'ing 20.
I'm going to go on history here as opposed to less than ten games.
Ersan isn't the NBA's worst player. Dalembert isn't going to put up All-NBA production the way he has so far. Gortat is closer to a well above average player than an average player he's been so far. I have absolutely no idea what Harris or Henson are going to provide, but I'm guessing it's not top 10 production at their position. Hoping I'm wrong.
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I honestly dont see how much more Gortat would do for us over the current rotation. Plus, I dont want to give up Henson for him considering our frontcourt has been excellent.
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- Ill-yasova
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DrugBust wrote:LUKE23 wrote:Unfortunately, just saying "Gortat makes us significantly better this year" doesn't make it so. Do you honestly think that RIGHT NOW, he's a superior defender to Sanders or Udoh? If your answer is no, then you obviously believe he's a HUGE upgrade offensively.
Take a look at his production per minute in Orlando before Nash, his only decent year was the year he played 7 minutes per game, his year 2 and year 3 weren't impressive at all. Then take a look at the jump with Nash. Then look at how he's playing this year. If you think that's coincidence, fine, I don't. He's not going to be a 17 ppg, .570 TS player or anything close to it. Sig it.
So how's he making us significantly better? If you think he's a better defender right now than Sanders or Udoh then we'll just agree to disagree. And he's never been a guy you throw it in the post to for offense. He's a finisher/spot up shooter type. He doesn't create his own offense.
And again, your "Harris hasn't done anything" isn't true. When he's played, he's been good offensively. And he's f'ing 20.
I'm going to go on history here as opposed to less than ten games.
Ersan isn't the NBA's worst player. Dalembert isn't going to put up All-NBA production the way he has so far. Gortat is closer to a well above average player than an average player he's been so far. I have absolutely no idea what Harris or Henson are going to provide, but I'm guessing it's not top 10 production at their position. Hoping I'm wrong.
I get what your saying, but what does having the 8th-10th best center in the NBA really get you. It's like having the 8th-10th best catcher in baseball, good for his position but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't add a lot to the team.
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- ampd
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Well yeah, and what are we trying to accomplish with this?
Gortat helps us for 2 seasons, does he really put us any closer to winning the championship? Does it make it easier to package guys together for a player who does? Does it even put us much closer to winning a playoff series?
If not we need to keep our young guys and let them develop.
Gortat helps us for 2 seasons, does he really put us any closer to winning the championship? Does it make it easier to package guys together for a player who does? Does it even put us much closer to winning a playoff series?
If not we need to keep our young guys and let them develop.
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- DanoMac
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Awful deal for us. Absolutely not Hollinger.
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- wichmae
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Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Original quick link had it from Hollinger. Ill edit it.