JBSouthpaw wrote:majortom71 wrote:JBSouthpaw wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of his, even though I consider him a very good coach.
The high minutes he has put on his starters during the regular season always bugged me. Of course, I thought JV would do that too on the front end of some of the B2Bs.
A lot of fans equate high minutes to injuries. Injuries are bound to happen to most teams, in fact even the amount of injuries the Bulls had is not uncommon for other teams to have. His high minutes issue got inflated into something it's not.
Rose's style of play causes wear and tear and it's a high chance of him being injured. That was the main issue with him.
Also if you have a good conditioning crew, the players should be able to take the physical demand.
In the end I consider him a top 3 coach and would be ecstatic if he ran this team.
I'd like to see some facts backing your opinions.
To take one point of yours "Rose's style of play causes wear and tear" If you do that "style of Play" over more minutes, it increases the chance by simple mathematics. Same with Noah, plays hard for too long.
Fine I'll play that game.
Thibs joined the Bulls in 2010.
Here is D. Rose's stats while with the Bulls.
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2008–09 Chicago 81 80 37.0 .475 .222 .788 3.9 6.3 .8 .2 16.8
2009–10 Chicago 78 78 36.8 .489 .267 .766 3.8 6.0 .7 .3 20.8
2010–11 Chicago 81 81 37.4 .445 .332 .858 4.1 7.7 1.0 .6 25.0
2011–12 Chicago 39 39 35.3 .435 .312 .812 3.4 7.9 .9 .7 21.8
2013–14 Chicago 10 10 31.1 .354 .340 .844 3.2 4.3 .5 .1 15.9
If you notice the 2 years prior to Thibs, Rose averaged around 37mpg, first year with Thibs 37.4mpg and after that lower and lower.
It does not show that significant increase of minutes now does it?
Here is J. Noah stats with the Bulls.
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2007–08 Chicago 74 31 20.7 .482 .000 .691 5.6 1.1 .9 .9 6.6
2008–09 Chicago 80 55 24.2 .556 .000 .676 7.6 1.3 .6 1.4 6.7
2009–10 Chicago 64 54 30.1 .504 .000 .744 11.0 2.1 .5 1.6 10.7
2010–11 Chicago 48 48 32.8 .525 .000 .764 10.4 2.2 1.0 1.5 11.7
2011–12 Chicago 64 64 30.4 .508 .000 .748 9.8 2.5 .6 1.4 10.2
2012–13 Chicago 66 64 36.8 .481 .000 .751 11.1 4.0 1.2 2.1 11.9
2013–14 Chicago 80 80 35.3 .475 .000 .737 11.3 5.4 1.2 1.5 12.6
The highest mpg he's played is still under 37mpg.
Here is Jimmy B. stats:
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2011–12 Chicago 42 0 8.5 .405 .182 .768 1.3 .3 .3 .1 2.6
2012–13 Chicago 82 20 26.0 .467 .381 .803 4.0 1.4 1.0 .4 8.6
2013–14 Chicago 67 67 38.7 .397 .283 .769 4.9 2.6 1.9 .5 13.1
2014–15 Chicago 51 51 39.7 .487 .345 .829 6.0 3.2 1.8 .6 20.6
Captain we've got a problem! Ok here is a case where minutes start going up to near 40mpg.
Wait a minute, you say there are players with a higher mpg?
Yes ma boy there are!
Here is Michael Jordan stats with Chicago:
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1984–85 Chicago 82 82 38.3 .515 .173 .845 6.5 5.9 2.4 .8 28.2
1985–86 Chicago 18 7 25.1 .457 .167 .840 3.6 2.9 2.1 1.2 22.7
1986–87 Chicago 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 5.2 4.6 2.9 1.5 37.1
1987–88 Chicago 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 35.0
1988–89 Chicago 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 8.0 8.0 2.9 .8 32.5
1989–90 Chicago 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 6.9 6.3 2.8 .7 33.6
1990–91† Chicago 82 82 37.0 .539 .312 .851 6.0 5.5 2.7 1.0 31.5
1991–92† Chicago 80 80 38.8 .519 .270 .832 6.4 6.1 2.3 .9 30.1
1992–93† Chicago 78 78 39.3 .495 .352 .837 6.7 5.5 2.8 .8 32.6
1994–95 Chicago 17 17 39.3 .411 .500 .801 6.9 5.3 1.8 .8 26.9
1995–96† Chicago 82 82 37.7 .495 .427 .834 6.6 4.3 2.2 .5 30.4
1996–97† Chicago 82 82 37.9 .486 .374 .833 5.9 4.3 1.7 .5 29.6
1997–98† Chicago 82 82 38.8 .465 .238 .784 5.8 3.5 1.7 .5 28.7
You can see here Jordan was averaging higher minutes than any of the players I posted all under P. Jax.
Here is Hakeem Olajuwon stats:
Season Age Team GP GS MIN FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1984–85 22 Houston 82 82 35.5 .538 – .613 5.4 6.5 11.9 1.4 1.2 2.7 2.9 4.2 20.6
1985–86 23 Houston 68 68 36.3 .526 – .645 4.9 6.6 11.5 2.0 2.0 3.4 2.9 4.0 23.5
1986–87 24 Houston 75 75 36.8 .508 .200 .702 4.2 7.2 11.4 2.9 1.9 3.4 3.0 3.9 23.4
1987–88 25 Houston 79 79 35.8 .514 .000 .695 3.8 8.3 12.1 2.1 2.1 2.7 3.1 4.1 22.8
1988–89 26 Houston 82 82 36.9 .508 .000 .696 4.1 9.4 13.5 1.8 2.6 3.4 3.4 4.0 24.8
1989–90 27 Houston 82 82 38.1 .501 .167 .713 3.6 10.4 14.0 2.9 2.1 4.6 3.9 3.8 24.3
1990–91 28 Houston 56 50 36.8 .508 .000 .769 3.9 9.8 13.8 2.3 2.2 3.9 3.1 3.9 21.2
1991–92 29 Houston 70 69 37.7 .502 .000 .766 3.5 8.6 12.1 2.2 1.8 4.3 2.7 3.8 21.6
1992–93 30 Houston 82 82 39.5 .529 .000 .779 3.5 9.6 13.0 3.5 1.8 4.2 3.2 3.7 26.1
1993–94† 31 Houston 80 80 41.0 .528 .421 .716 2.9 9.1 11.9 3.6 1.6 3.7 3.4 3.6 27.3
1994–95† 32 Houston 72 72 39.6 .517 .188 .756 2.4 8.4 10.8 3.5 1.8 3.4 3.3 3.5 27.8
1995–96 33 Houston 72 72 38.8 .514 .214 .724 2.4 8.4 10.9 3.6 1.6 2.9 3.4 3.4 26.9
1996–97 34 Houston 78 78 36.6 .510 .313 .787 2.2 7.0 9.2 3.0 1.5 2.2 3.6 3.2 23.2
1997–98 35 Houston 47 45 34.7 .483 .000 .755 2.5 7.3 9.8 3.0 1.8 2.0 2.7 3.2 16.4
1998–99 36 Houston 50 50 35.7 .514 .308 .717 2.1 7.4 9.6 1.8 1.6 2.5 2.8 3.2 18.9
1999–2000 37 Houston 44 28 23.8 .458 .000 .616 1.5 4.8 6.2 1.4 0.9 1.6 1.7 2.0 10.3
2000–01 38 Houston 58 55 26.6 .498 .000 .621 2.1 5.3 7.4 1.2 1.2 1.5 1.4 2.4 11.9
Olajuwon at his prime was averaging over 40mpg!!!
Here is Scottie Pippen stats:
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1987–88 Chicago 79 0 20.9 .463 .174 .576 3.8 2.1 1.2 0.7 7.9
1988–89 Chicago 73 56 33.1 .476 .273 .668 6.1 3.5 1.9 0.8 14.4
1989–90 Chicago 82 82 38.4 .489 .250 .675 6.7 5.4 2.6 1.2 16.5
1990–91† Chicago 82 82 36.8 .520 .309 .706 7.3 6.2 2.4 1.1 17.8
1991–92† Chicago 82 82 38.6 .506 .200 .760 7.7 7.0 1.9 1.1 21.0
1992–93† Chicago 81 81 38.6 .473 .237 .663 7.7 6.3 2.1 0.9 18.6
1993–94 Chicago 72 72 38.3 .491 .320 .660 8.7 5.6 2.9 0.8 22.0
1994–95 Chicago 79 79 38.2 .480 .345 .716 8.1 5.2 2.9 1.1 21.4
1995–96† Chicago 77 77 36.7 .463 .374 .679 6.4 5.9 1.7 0.7 19.4
1996–97† Chicago 82 82 37.7 .474 .368 .701 6.5 5.7 1.9 0.6 20.2
1997–98† Chicago 44 44 37.5 .447 .318 .777 5.2 5.8 1.8 1.0 19.1
Again it's normal to avg around 38mpg for players like this.
The fact of the matter is that with the exception of Butler's 1 season most of Thibs big name players average far less than the HOF players we idolize.
Why? There may be many reasons but you can't say the high minutes are doing it. If it was the case the HOF players I listed would have major injuries like Rose, but they never did! Of course Pippen, Jordan and even Hakeem may have gotten injured but nothing like Rose.
Rose has had terrible luck with injuries and I feel for him, but I would not put it on Thibs.
You have to have good strength/conditioning as an athlete to last the season.
This is why I tend to dismiss the issue with Thibs and his minutes.
Edit: I tried to format the player stats tables but it did not work
the minutes are the 5th column in tables.