The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
I saw at least a couple "start Taj" posts. Even if you want that, I'm not sure Taj is going to be ready to start when the season begins. His surgery was Mid-June I believe, with a 4 month time table for recovery. If that holds true that means he misses the entire pre-season, right? So a new coach, new approach, coming off an injury just in time for the start of the season....I don't think anyone should expect, or want, Taj starting. Maybe I am missing something, but it would seem to me he is going to have to spend the first 40 games of the season working his way back into 24 minutes a game.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
IMO there are 3 options, and 3 options only:
1) Trade him before the season
2) Trade him during the season
3) Don't resign him.
I don't want Noah on this team beyond this upcoming season given his age, health, and likely price of his new contract. I want to remember Noah for the good that he did for this team, versus the garbage he provided last year and that I expect him to provide moving forward.
1) Trade him before the season
2) Trade him during the season
3) Don't resign him.
I don't want Noah on this team beyond this upcoming season given his age, health, and likely price of his new contract. I want to remember Noah for the good that he did for this team, versus the garbage he provided last year and that I expect him to provide moving forward.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
Chitownbulls wrote:Bench him an let him walk next season.
Having Joakim Noah out there won't help Hoiball.
If we don't land Durant, go after Hassan Whiteside.
Agreed let him walk.
But i'm looking at Eric Gordon or Danilo Gallinari.
Older guys i'm looking at Deng, Joe Johnson, and Ersan Ilyasova.
Jcool0 wrote:aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?
If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.
NBA fan logic we need to trade one of two best players because (Player X) one needs to shine more.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
It's sad. I love Noah. He gives his all on the floor every minute he's out there. The problem is his body now betrays what his mind wants to do. I have no idea how bad his knees are - but from the looks of last season, they're shot. Knees don't magically get better. I'd like to say let's see what he can give us, yet I know that in all the years he's been in the NBA he's never really worked on his game. His shot was broken when he came into the league and it hasn't changed and worse yet - he's appeared to have lost all confidence in the Earth Ball.
He's never had a back-to-the-basket game and he's never developed one. It's folly to think he'll do it now.
If Joakim is smart he'd work on a midrange shot - and work on it hard. He used to be pretty good with his dribble drive left and finish with a crazy running hook. How he consistently made that shot is beyond me. Now he simply doesn't have the explosion, foot speed or lift to make that shot.
I just don't think he's spending his summer remaking his game. He doesn't strike me as the type. Too bad too. He's one of my all-time favorite Bulls. There comes a time when both the player and his team come to the realization that they just can't contribute at the level they used to. I would hope Noah sees this and accepts the inevitable with style and grace.
I'd love for the guy to retire as a Bull. Just don't know if that's reasonable.
He's never had a back-to-the-basket game and he's never developed one. It's folly to think he'll do it now.
If Joakim is smart he'd work on a midrange shot - and work on it hard. He used to be pretty good with his dribble drive left and finish with a crazy running hook. How he consistently made that shot is beyond me. Now he simply doesn't have the explosion, foot speed or lift to make that shot.
I just don't think he's spending his summer remaking his game. He doesn't strike me as the type. Too bad too. He's one of my all-time favorite Bulls. There comes a time when both the player and his team come to the realization that they just can't contribute at the level they used to. I would hope Noah sees this and accepts the inevitable with style and grace.
I'd love for the guy to retire as a Bull. Just don't know if that's reasonable.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
DuckIII wrote:bad knees wrote:What to do? It's simple: wait and see what Noah looks like in the first few months of the season. Then act accordingly. All the rest is speculation that cannot be acted upon. No entitlement minutes, please, Coach Fred.
I agree with this. But I'd still try to trade him this offseason before it even gets to that.
+1, I would also do it to give the team the opportunity to adjust without its vocal leader and also to get Portis the opportunity to get minutes and develop right away. I know there are teams that would take a chance, but my guess is that the Bulls are waiting until free agency comes to a close and attempt to rip off teams.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
AirGordon7 wrote:truthfully even if he looks like old Noah i'll still pass on resiging him...i'd trade him at the deadline
31 years old without a skill that will transfer over to old man age equals recipe for disaster signing him long term
There's nobody more discusted with his performance last year then me. He was straight 100% garbage. But he has a role for many years. His passing and rebounding. He can get back to shooting mid range jumpers. Those things will not go away at his age. He needs to be tooken out of the pick in roll period. He will figure it out what he can and can't do . there should be no situation where he just is a complete liability on the court. As fans most bulls fans should be embarrassed. What if he's traded and plays even better then 2014.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
You monitor him throughout the season(off-season too) and see where his health is. If he recovers some of his previous form then you continue to watch for signs of a decline in health. If the decline does not show itself to be more than simple age then you re-sign him, if he is hobbled and begins to show signs of complete deterioration then you either have to trade him away or choose to not re-sign him.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
I'm very much in the camp of Addition by Subtraction. Even if he bounces back from that absolutely awful playoffs campaign, I'd prefer to let him go in just about any capacity. I do not believe we will be getting into the NBA finals this year, and I'd like to see if Mirotic and Portis can develop quickly.
I have a more selfish reason. I want to change the channel every time I see him touch the ball, fail, then put on that incredibly punchable pouty face. He did a lot for our teams, but he can't help next season's Bulls on the court.
I have a more selfish reason. I want to change the channel every time I see him touch the ball, fail, then put on that incredibly punchable pouty face. He did a lot for our teams, but he can't help next season's Bulls on the court.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
We need to worry about developing Niko an Portis this year Imo. I would bench Noah. He may even play better coming off the bench in short minutes.
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
MrFortune3 wrote:You monitor him throughout the season(off-season too) and see where his health is. If he recovers some of his previous form then you continue to watch for signs of a decline in health. If the decline does not show itself to be more than simple age then you re-sign him, if he is hobbled and begins to show signs of complete deterioration then you either have to trade him away or choose to not re-sign him.
I agree with this. i would add that the Bulls likely know a heck of a lot more than we do about his prognosis to return to some semblance of his old self. The docs have to be telling them something. The trainers have to be telling them something, We don't have near enough information to assess this situation at this point, which is why your approach makes perfect sense.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
I think Noah will play himself into a big or small money extension with the Bulls, or some other team will overpay for his declining services.
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
Trade Noah to the Clippers for Stephenson plus filler. Both are coming off injuries. Both are guaranteed through the end of this coming season. The Clippers desperately need a big man. We could do with another guard who can handle the ball and shoot. Who knows, maybe the Clippers will be desperate enough to do it.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
You can't say what to do with him in the future because we're not sure what player we're currently left with.
What you can do right is now is to hang onto him as he has no trade value and only play him minutes he deserves.
You take it from there and make a judgement call at the deadline.
What you can do right is now is to hang onto him as he has no trade value and only play him minutes he deserves.
You take it from there and make a judgement call at the deadline.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
Gar Paxdorf wrote:I'm starting to think that if Noah seems better, and Niko seems what we think he is, go ahead and start Noah and Niko.
What do we think Niko is? I sure don't think he's proven he's ready to play heavy minutes this year.
Step 1: instead of "ass" say "buns." Like "kiss my buns" or "you're a buns-hole."
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Woj: The NBA's Dickie Dunn.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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DASMACKDOWN wrote:Playing poorly and being done are two different things though.
Everytime people talk about Noah and how much he sucks, its about the offensive end. Yes he was horrible last year. But Noah on offense isnt where you want him anyway. Its sort of like being mad at Rose for being a poor 3pt shooter.
Is Noah rebounding and playing defense above average still? If the answer is yes, then yes he has plenty left and has a role going forward. His rebounding and defense numbers were fine to me.
His biggest drop off was on offense and ability to finish. Noah has never been great at it, but this past season went totally down the toilet. But that in essence made him look much worse. I honestly dont think that part of his game will improve but it doesnt mean he is worthless.
No, wrong. You can't have a significant player be that bad on offense, no matter how good his defense is. You just can't play 4 on 5 on offense for long stretches in games and expect to win. Noah was never a very good offensive player, but he was good enough. Last year he was a pogrom on offense.
Step 1: instead of "ass" say "buns." Like "kiss my buns" or "you're a buns-hole."
Woj: The NBA's Dickie Dunn.
Woj: The NBA's Dickie Dunn.
Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
donaldtrump_00 wrote:AirGordon7 wrote:truthfully even if he looks like old Noah i'll still pass on resiging him...i'd trade him at the deadline
31 years old without a skill that will transfer over to old man age equals recipe for disaster signing him long term
There's nobody more discusted with his performance last year then me. He was straight 100% garbage. But he has a role for many years. His passing and rebounding. He can get back to shooting mid range jumpers. Those things will not go away at his age. He needs to be tooken out of the pick in roll period. He will figure it out what he can and can't do . there should be no situation where he just is a complete liability on the court. As fans most bulls fans should be embarrassed. What if he's traded and plays even better then 2014.
he will never be a consistent shooter with that shot form so thats not something i'd say will carry over
his rebounding can be replaced and his passing won't make or break us...really its more of a luxury than anything
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LoveDaBoo wrote:Gar Paxdorf wrote:I'm starting to think that if Noah seems better, and Niko seems what we think he is, go ahead and start Noah and Niko.
What do we think Niko is? I sure don't think he's proven he's ready to play heavy minutes this year.
I want all 4 frontcourt guys to play about 24 mpg. I just think getting Niko in with jimmy and derrick is a priority, and niko means noah to me.
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Re: The Noah Conundrum - What to do?
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Half of you people act like Noah is going to show up for training camp in a wheelchair and never get out of it and the other half thinks he's washed up but other teams will throw a pair of contributing players at the Bulls because they're too stupid to notice. If a single one of you has seen Jo during the off season and know how he has been progressing after surgery, come on let us see the video you took. I have no idea how he's doing, nor if Taj can walk and I'm not going to find out any real hard evidence any sooner than any of you. I'm betting the Bulls are in contact with both, as well as every other player on the roster. And they aren't making moves that give any evidence of a disaster coming. Making decisions while completely uninformed and in the dark makes some, OK most of you look really foolish and in 4 months you'll be showing all the backbone of a worm when you your baseless fears are proved wrong.
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ChettheJet wrote:Half of you people act like Noah is going to show up for training camp in a wheelchair and never get out of it and the other half thinks he's washed up but other teams will throw a pair of contributing players at the Bulls because they're too stupid to notice. If a single one of you has seen Jo during the off season and know how he has been progressing after surgery, come on let us see the video you took. I have no idea how he's doing, nor if Taj can walk and I'm not going to find out any real hard evidence any sooner than any of you. I'm betting the Bulls are in contact with both, as well as every other player on the roster. And they aren't making moves that give any evidence of a disaster coming. Making decisions while completely uninformed and in the dark makes some, OK most of you look really foolish and in 4 months you'll be showing all the backbone of a worm when you your baseless fears are proved wrong.
So, seeing Noah play for a full season and playoffs after his knee "cleanout" is a "baseless" opinion, to you? To me, that's a pretty good basis to determine he's going to have problems going forward. In fact, I'd describe the belief that he'll miraculously get better "baseless."
Step 1: instead of "ass" say "buns." Like "kiss my buns" or "you're a buns-hole."
Woj: The NBA's Dickie Dunn.
Woj: The NBA's Dickie Dunn.
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Done or not, he's here next season. Hopefully he's better and healthier.
And I wouldn't be so sure he's gone after the season. Knowing how Pax works, they'll find him a role on the roster and the cap explodes. He might be re-signed for a lot in perpetuity.
And I wouldn't be so sure he's gone after the season. Knowing how Pax works, they'll find him a role on the roster and the cap explodes. He might be re-signed for a lot in perpetuity.