OT: Tell me about Artis Gilmore

[D-Wins-RingsIMO]

This one is for the old ppl on this forum

So I'm doing some research on the most efficient (TS%) seasons of all time for big-men, to see what is realistic for Chris Bosh (wanted to see how an 82 game season compared to what he pulled at the Olympics).

I cut off the minimum scoring to 16 ppg just to ensure I would have guys who are legit 3rd options or better, and if any true garbage men were in there I'd ignore.

Anyway, the biggest "name" near the top of the list was Sir Charles in his Philly days, where he was putting up 25+ ppg on ~ 65% TS%. But he wasn't at the top of the list.

Some dude on the 1982 Bulls put up a ridiculous 70.2% TS% while scoring 18.5 ppg

Artis **** Gilmore



Can you guys tell me more about him:
1. What was his main way of scoring?
2. Did he have any range?
3. Why the hell did he start of in Kentucky of the ABA?
4. Why the hell did he play at Jacksonville U when he was a legit 7 footer?
5. HOW IS HE NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME?

His career looks unreal.
- 20/20 in college, gets to the final 4 with Jacksonville U
- Career 20/10 guy in the NBA with a sick PER (career average > 20)
- All his advanced stats look very good

Did this guy do something to get blacklisted?

[SportsPg]

My first Bulls game ever was in 1977 and Artis Gilmore immediately became my favorite player. He was simply dominant. Look up his ABA stats, they are INSANE. He was signed to a big $$$ contract by the Kentucky Colonels after leading his tiny Jacksonville U team to the NCAA title game against the juggernaut Wooden led UCLA Bruins team in 1970.

He should be a hall of famer in my book, his stats, impact on the ABA (IMO, next to Dr. J nobody was better than the A-Train (btw, the A-Train was Artis Gilmore's nickname a long time before Anthony Thomas of Michigan and Bears fame).

[emperorjones]

The A-Train was almost automatic on the block. I only caught his last 3 years on the Bulls, but I was a big fan. My older family members remembered him as a total BEAST in the ABA.

As far as your questions....

1. What was his main way of scoring?
- Back to the basket, break you down old school type center. I remember a baby hook and a very short face up jumper.


2. Did he have any range?
No. You didn't want him facing up and making a move to the basket.

3. Why the hell did he start of in Kentucky of the ABA?
The ABA was an awesome league. At the time the NBA was kind of boring and the ABA brought a lot of show & innovation - slam dunk competition, 3 pointers, run & gun.

4. Why the hell did he play at Jacksonville U when he was a legit 7 footer?
No idea

5. HOW IS HE NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME?
Stats IMO were somewhat inflated during that period and before. Compare him to others at that time and he's solid but not HOF worthy IMHO.

[Scott May]

Can you guys tell me more about him:
1. What was his main way of scoring?

Dunks and shots deep in the painted area. Physically, he was kind of like the Dwight Howard of his era -- huge, strong, immovable.

2. Did he have any range?

Not really.

3. Why the hell did he start of in Kentucky of the ABA?

The ABA was a legitimate league that used big signing bonuses and some accounting gimmicks (deferred money) to lure the best talent in the world. They also took players out of high school (Moses Malone) and early entrants when that was frowned upon by the NBA, and also "renegade" players like Connie Hawkins who the NBA had blackballed for point shaving. But blue-chippers like Dr. J, Dan Issel, George Gervin, David Thompson, and Maurice Lucas started their careers with the ABA. Read Terry Pluto's indispensable "Loose Balls" for an authoritative history on the league.

4. Why the hell did he play at Jacksonville U when he was a legit 7 footer?

You mean like as opposed to UCLA, Kansas, etc. I'm only speculating, but it could be that he wanted to stay close to home.

5. HOW IS HE NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME?

It's inexplicable, especially as time goes by and people regard the ABA as being a tremendous league. I don't think there's a blacklist issue--he was a super quiet, attention-avoiding person. But at this point, he's going to have trouble getting in, because more worthy players are becoming eligible and it gets tough to get him on a ballot.

[PJ Brown]

Artis Gilmore was not only my first favorite player, but my first basketball was a red, white and blue Gilmore signature model. I just remember him being totally scary down low.

As an aside, gotta love the Chicago script jerseys.

[TeamMan]

...5. HOW IS HE NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME?
...Did this guy do something to get blacklisted?

Actually this is a controversial subject.

Recently I read an interview with Gilmore where he (using reverse logic) asks the same questions.

Also, don't know if you knew that the "A-Train" also won an ABA Championship (with Dan Isel at PF).

[thunderspirit]

Never saw Gilmore play myself in his prime (toward the end of his career he came back to the Bulls in like 1986? '87? something like that), but I recall seeing some old film on the Bulls broadcasts. The man could PLAY.

I seem to remember reading somewhere an observer mention he didn't seem to "enjoy" playing basketball. It's possible -- I don't ever recall him smiling while on the floor -- but if he didn't, he sure did a helluva lot more with his talent than one Eddy Curry did.

EDIT: stat inflation, my left eye. There's no question that Gilmore should have a bust in Springfield, MA.

[TheSchmaranz]

Gilmore eh? Well...



A long long time ago...

[Corzine's Lovechild]

Gilmore was an unbeliveably strong player. The matchups between Gilmore and Bob Lanier of the Bucks were MUST WATCH games. (I'm dating myself).

He was traded to the Spurs for MY GUY (Dave Corzine) and I think Mark Oberding.

[Scott May]

I seem to remember reading somewhere an observer mention he didn't seem to "enjoy" playing basketball.

I can see how one could get that impression: he was really low-key, and by today's standards, an average NBA game in the 70s and 80s was played with a lot less physical intensity than it would be after the "Bad Boys" and Riley's Heat and Knicks massively upped the ante on the defensive end. It's what made guys like Sloan and Van Lier and Clyde Frazier stand out, too.

[rtblues]

The Guy was a LOAD. Virtually unstoppable underneath, he possessed a nasty set of fakes too, up and under moves. Block your stuff too! He didn't have enough help on Bulls.
Very nice Guy, I got his autograph back in the day, HUGE!

[D-Wins-RingsIMO]

wow this thread is pretty awesome, good history lesson and some great stories!

So I guess Artis would in the words of Shaq, make Chris Bosh the Ru Paul of big men.

He got his 70% TS% as a feature player off dunks and li'l old school hooks and flip shots w/in 5 ft of the basket.

If Bosh gets that 70% TS% with the mWO it's going to be mostly from shooting 90% at the line and getting uncontested layups off a drive and dish plus shooting 18 foot rainbows.

[emperorjones]

Bosh couldn't guard Gilmore but no way Gilmore could guard Bosh. Big men that could face up and handle the ball making a move to the basket like Bosh weren't even conceived of before Olajuwon.

[MrFortune3]

artis was a 7 ft freak f nature. i never got to see him play but one of my dads friends knows him real well. he got him to give me a autographed picture of him. i was supposed to meet him as well but never got the chance because i had to go out of town.

[ATRAIN53]

my favorite subject....

the stats say he belongs but over the years i've concluded that he's not in the HOF because the NBA is the curator of the HOF and the NBA/ABA merger was very controversial. the ABA had to fold and O'Brien/NBA wanted to control the process and where the players went.

(read up on this merger sometime, esp if you're like me and love conspiricies and thinks Stern wants players in certain cities. they wanted Dr J in NYC, badly)

Gilmore was the big prize of that 'supplmental' style draft and i think the NBA held it against him, esp the fact that he picked the ABA over the NBA when he was a rookie out of college. he was also overshadowed by Dr J and then the Magic/Bird explosion. he knew it and went overseas for a bigger paycheck. so i think the NBA looks at him as somewhat of a "carpetbagger" and not an "ambassador" of the game.


Artis wasn't flashy, he followed the money and was a hard hat/lunchpail type that the NBA just never promoted. In the end it was just a bad era to be as great as he was.

like Santo, i scoff at the MLB and NBA HOF for omitting these more than worthy canadates.


(i also think there is some 'controversey' regarding drugs and ATRAIN, but i have no desire to go there)

[ChiBulls09]

Bring back the cursive jerseys!