Randolph at Center

[TrueWarrior]

Bare with me here:

Mozgov being a failure as a starter (so far) has really hurt our bench. When Moz is out there with the bench players now, he just adds to the chaos. Meanwhile when Ronny was out there with them, he was the man in charge while Wilson took the offensive load. We had a good thing going. This team really needs a starting center in the worst way. I really dont like Turiaf starting after I thought about it some more, because he made our bench go, and Mozgov clearly isnt ready to start.

I really think we need to give Randolph more of a look here. He could play center against certain guys and def put on some weight compared to years past, even if hes still skinny. The guy dropped 30 pts on Dwight last season. At the same time I guess Randolph isnt getting it done in practice. I think hes been playing better lately in games tho, even if he still tries too hard on occasion. I just think we are confused with him and have him playing the wrong way.

THE KEY TO THIS whole Randolph at C thing is he has to just concentrate on defense, shot blocking, rebounding, putbacks, scoring in the paint, and all around energy. Dont concentrate on scoring or creating. Basically what Nellie told him in GS. If he focused on those things he could actually start at center for us, and balance our whole lineup again. Unfortunately he thinks he should be Lamar Odom instead of Camby, which is not really what we need out there. I think Randolph is getting lost in the shuffle with all of our forwards, and Randolph at forward doesnt really give us anything Chandler doesnt already give us off the bench. If we play him at CENTER and he played like a CENTER however, it could work and he gives us another look.

I would start playing Randolph at center OFF THE BENCH FIRST, and see how he reacts. If good things happen then Id think about making a change.

Felton/Douglas
Fields/Walker
Gallo/Chandler
Amare/Chandler
Randolph/Turiaf

That would be my lineup down the line. Only way it works is if Randolph changes his approach though. I think we have to decide who to play out of Randolph and Mozgov. I dont think we can play them both. Right now Mozgov isnt working, so it doesnt hurt to try something new.

[Johnny_Depth]

He's too thin. He makes JAred Jeffries look strong. I've never seen a 6'11 player land on his back as much as him. Dude gets killed on drives to the paint, and doesn't have the strength to keep his man from getting position in the paint.

[blueNorange]

i won't say mozgov is a failure, he's blocking shots and right now that's all you can ask for. he also has something that randolph doesn't and that's moving the ball ... once he gets the ball he looks to pass it to felton immediately, you can't say the same for randolph who looks confused and then does something stupid.

[Deeeez Knicks]

When Turiaf is hurt, I think we just have to leave Amare at C.

Everyone else is just too inconsistent. Thats one of the issue's with Randolph. He can look great one day, then just terrible the next. That will kill you in the starting lineup.

When Turiaf is out, I think we leave our starting lineup, then let randolph be the PF off the bench. I totally agree with you on what Randolph needs to do. Just concentrate on rebounding/D and not do too much on offense. Like a Jeffries role.

But he hasnt shown anything yet. He needs to show he can do that off the bench first before I would trust him starting...

[TrueWarrior]

i won't say mozgov is a failure, he's blocking shots and right now that's all you can ask for. he also has something that randolph doesn't and that's moving the ball ... once he gets the ball he looks to pass it to felton immediately, you can't say the same for randolph who looks confused and then does something stupid.

Im not saying Mozgov is a failure in general, but that he was a failure as a starter. Hopefully he can get it together and regain that spot, but I just really like Turiaf off the bench. He gives our bench cohesiveness and a veteran presence. Without him our bench has been all over the place.

Also Randolph has def been bad for the most part, but we got him playing totally different than he did in GS. Thats the Dantoni influence. Changing his players' games (which is what my Gallo thread was about). Nellie told him to concentrate on a few things and played him at center a lot, and Randolph excelled even if he didnt like being restricted. While Dantoni gives him more freedom, but I think thats exactly what he shouldnt do, if Randolph likes it or not. If we told Randolph not to look for his shot so much, and to concentrate on the things I, and Nellie, said him at center could work. I know because it already has.

On the issure of him being too skinny, explain guys like Camby and Tyson Chandler. I know they are older and more mature, but they are twigs. Im not saying to play Randolph at center on Shaq or anything, but I think he could check most of them.

[Knick4Real]

Your plan sounds good except for one problem...

The moment AR steps on the court, he would forget he's playing Center and think he's the shooting guard. Then he'd start firing away as if all offense runs through him and he can't miss... except 98% of the time he does.

That's my main problem with AR. He seems the last to know his own strengths and weaknesses. If he concentrated more on defense and shot blocking, maybe he'd be getting some burn by now. But the ball becomes some kind of drug to him every time he touches it, and he feels it's his mission to shoot us right out of a game. Sure Moz has been somewhat of a non-factor for us at times, but at least he's not taking shots that throws the ball into the hands of our opponent and basically becomes a turnover.

[defjux21]

D'Antoni isn't using Randolph properly. Our bench is currently crap thanks to Turiaf being injured, Mozgov still learning, and Dougie playing like white hot garbage. We're putting Randolph on the same floor as these guys without a bonifide playmaker or a goto option other than maybe Chandler. A lot of the bad shots we see Randolph take are a result of the rest of the bench being completely incompetent on offense, forcing Randolph to take last second bail out type shots. Ideally, AR needs to play either alongside Gallo, or alongside Amare. Him and Gallo can make a great inside-out tandem since Gallo has the playmaking capabilities to set him up. Alongside Amare, the pressure on the offensive end is completely off and he can concentrate purely on defense and hustle plays, allowing Amare to beast more. His shotblocking is already pretty good, just as long as he takes care of the ball over on offense and stays away from fouls on defense, he should be good to develop.

I hope D'Antoni figures this out because those spot minutes he's putting AR in the game for are irking me to no end.

[TrueWarrior]

When Turiaf is hurt, I think we just have to leave Amare at C.

Everyone else is just too inconsistent. Thats one of the issue's with Randolph. He can look great one day, then just terrible the next. That will kill you in the starting lineup.

When Turiaf is out, I think we leave our starting lineup, then let randolph be the PF off the bench. I totally agree with you on what Randolph needs to do. Just concentrate on rebounding/D and not do too much on offense. Like a Jeffries role.

But he hasnt shown anything yet. He needs to show he can do that off the bench first before I would trust him starting...

Oh Im not saying to thrust him into the starting spot right now. Maybe I didnt make that clear. But down the line I think we need to pick one of Mozgov or Randolph to start at center. I hate the small ball lineup, if thats not obvious by now, and I love Turiaf off the bench.

We should start small and play Randolph at center off the bench and see what happens. With Chandler being our backup SF/PF I really dont think Randolph at forward gives us anything Chandler doesnt already give us. But at center he gives us a new dimension. Dantoni loves to go small anyway, so Randolph at center, expecially off the bench, shouldnt be a big deal to him. I just think he doesnt like the guy.

[Curryy]

AR @ C will only work in 2K.

[MaseInYourFace]

AR @ C will only work in 2K.

It works like a charm there as long as your not playing some huge center like Yao or something. I've gone on a lot of big runs using that lineup.

[Deeeez Knicks]

When Turiaf is hurt, I think we just have to leave Amare at C.

Everyone else is just too inconsistent. Thats one of the issue's with Randolph. He can look great one day, then just terrible the next. That will kill you in the starting lineup.

When Turiaf is out, I think we leave our starting lineup, then let randolph be the PF off the bench. I totally agree with you on what Randolph needs to do. Just concentrate on rebounding/D and not do too much on offense. Like a Jeffries role.

But he hasnt shown anything yet. He needs to show he can do that off the bench first before I would trust him starting...

Oh Im not saying to thrust him into the starting spot right now. Maybe I didnt make that clear. But down the line I think we need to pick one of Mozgov or Randolph to start at center. I hate the small ball lineup, if thats not obvious by now, and I love Turiaf off the bench.

We should start small and play Randolph at center off the bench and see what happens. With Chandler being our backup SF/PF I really dont think Randolph at forward gives us anything Chandler doesnt already give us. But at center he gives us a new dimension. Dantoni loves to go small anyway, so Randolph at center, expecially off the bench, shouldnt be a big deal to him. I just think he doesnt like the guy.

Ok, yeah I misunderstood. I would agree with that. Randolph def needs to start playing big. We should send him tapes of Marcus Camby when he was with the Knicks. He would come off the bench and make huge impacts without having a play run for him. Just purely on hustle. Not that I expect AR to make that type of impact, but he should play that way.

Its frustrating. Does him and the coaching staff realize that he's 6'11" with a huge wingspan?? Yet, seems like he's always on the perimeter. Nobody guards him. And he settles for jumpers. I think this is on the coaching staff more then Randolph as he probably doesnt know any better.

[TrueWarrior]

D'Antoni isn't using Randolph properly. Our bench is currently crap thanks to Turiaf being injured, Mozgov still learning, and Dougie playing like white hot garbage. We're putting Randolph on the same floor as these guys without a bonifide playmaker or a goto option other than maybe Chandler. A lot of the bad shots we see Randolph take are a result of the rest of the bench being completely incompetent on offense, forcing Randolph to take last second bail out type shots. Ideally, AR needs to play either alongside Gallo, or alongside Amare. Him and Gallo can make a great inside-out tandem since Gallo has the playmaking capabilities to set him up. Alongside Amare, the pressure on the offensive end is completely off and he can concentrate purely on defense and hustle plays, allowing Amare to beast more. His shotblocking is already pretty good, just as long as he takes care of the ball over on offense and stays away from fouls on defense, he should be good to develop.

I hope D'Antoni figures this out because those spot minutes he's putting AR in the game for are irking me to no end.

Exactly how I feel. Why havent we ever tried Randolph with the starters just for a few minutes? Whats there to lose? Especially when Turiaf is hurt. We always put him out there with the nutty butty 2nd unit and its every man for himself.

HONEST QUESTION... do people think Randolph just fell off this much this fast on his own? Or has Dantoni changed his mentality/game and put him in positions to fail? We're talking about a 21 year old big man here. He needs coaching. Right now he looks more out of place than Eddy Curry eating a salad. Something just isnt right.

[MaseInYourFace]

Yeah man. I thought coming into the season that Dantoni would play around more with the way he used RAndolph. Heck I even thought he would be starting against certain teams. It's been disappointing no doubt. It just seems like such a waste. Who knows perhaps playing him more with the A team would rein him in a little and minimize his mistakes.

[TrueWarrior]

Oh Im not saying to thrust him into the starting spot right now. Maybe I didnt make that clear. But down the line I think we need to pick one of Mozgov or Randolph to start at center. I hate the small ball lineup, if thats not obvious by now, and I love Turiaf off the bench.

We should start small and play Randolph at center off the bench and see what happens. With Chandler being our backup SF/PF I really dont think Randolph at forward gives us anything Chandler doesnt already give us. But at center he gives us a new dimension. Dantoni loves to go small anyway, so Randolph at center, expecially off the bench, shouldnt be a big deal to him. I just think he doesnt like the guy.

Ok, yeah I misunderstood. I would agree with that. Randolph def needs to start playing big. We should send him tapes of Marcus Camby when he was with the Knicks. He would come off the bench and make huge impacts without having a play run for him. Just purely on hustle. Not that I expect AR to make that type of impact, but he should play that way.

Its frustrating. Does him and the coaching staff realize that he's 6'11" with a huge wingspan?? Yet, seems like he's always on the perimeter. Nobody guards him. And he settles for jumpers. I think this is on the coaching staff more then Randolph as he probably doesnt know any better.

The thing is he already has done the things you said. Did you see him play in Golden State? He played nothing like the way he is now. This is why I blame coaching.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z85vHk5cc98[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgyybTWnyaY[/youtube]


Im not saying to completely erase his other strengths like ball handling and his improved jumper. But its obvious he needs to be playing like the energy player he used to be. I mean is this even the same player? It goes back to my Gallo thread. Dantoni changing the way our players play.

[Fat Kat]

Randolph just needs to smarten up. He plays as if he has no idea what's he doing or where he needs to be on the floor. You can look at his face and tell that he's confused.

Coaching can help with this but more than that, he just needs to pull his head out of his ass. I can now see why Nellie was so frustrated with this kid. He needs to work on his game during practice and prove that he deserves more PT.

[Dexmor]

I would give him some starting minutes at C and then trade him for a actual C as fast as I can.

[Marty McFly]

Randolph is the ? here. I know i thought nellie was crazy for trying to make him a center, but i think that's where his potential is. All AR has to be for this team is a rebounder and a shot blocker, and he has potential to be great at those facets of the game. His biggest issue in becoming a 5 is his weight. He most certainly needs to get his weight up.

One of the reasons why i don't want to trade him is because i think he has the potential to be an ideal frontcourt mate for stat. I'm hopeful, that in time he'll figure it out, and learn a thing or two from his former GS teammate turiaf.

[biggyfuzz]

i mean it doesnt hurt to try at times to see how it pans out.

[knicks742]

Bare with me here:

Mozgov being a failure (so far) has really hurt our bench. When Moz is out there with the bench players now, he just adds to the chaos. Meanwhile when Ronny was out there with them, he was the man in charge while Wilson took the offensive load. We had a good thing going. This team really needs a starting center in the worst way. I really dont like Turiaf starting after I thought about it some more, because he made our bench go, and Mozgov clearly isnt ready to start.

I really think we need to give Randolph more of a look here. He could play center against certain guys and def put on some weight compared to years past, even if hes still skinny. The guy dropped 30 pts on Dwight last season. At the same time I guess Randolph isnt getting it done in practice. I think hes been playing better lately in games tho, even if he still tries too hard on occasion. I just think we are confused with him and have him playing the wrong way.

THE KEY TO THIS whole Randolph at C thing is he has to just concentrate on defense, shot blocking, rebounding, putbacks, scoring in the paint, and all around energy. Dont concentrate on scoring or creating. Basically what Nellie told him in GS. If he focused on those things he could actually start at center for us, and balance our whole lineup again. Unfortunately he thinks he should be Lamar Odom instead of Camby, which is not really what we need out there. I think Randolph is getting lost in the shuffle with all of our forwards, and Randolph at forward doesnt really give us anything Chandler doesnt already give us off the bench. If we play him at CENTER and he played like a CENTER however, it could work and he gives us another look.

I would start playing Randolph at center OFF THE BENCH FIRST, and see how he reacts. If good things happen then Id think about making a change.

Felton/Douglas
Fields/Walker
Gallo/Chandler
Amare/Chandler
Randolph/Turiaf

That would be my lineup down the line. Only way it works is if Randolph changes his approach though. I think we have to decide who to play out of Randolph and Mozgov. I dont think we can play them both. Right now Mozgov isnt working, so it doesnt hurt to try something new.

I stopped reading right there. I normally respect your posts but if you think Mozgov is a failure so far then I don't know what to tell you.

[Fat Kat]

Oh Im not saying to thrust him into the starting spot right now. Maybe I didnt make that clear. But down the line I think we need to pick one of Mozgov or Randolph to start at center. I hate the small ball lineup, if thats not obvious by now, and I love Turiaf off the bench.

We should start small and play Randolph at center off the bench and see what happens. With Chandler being our backup SF/PF I really dont think Randolph at forward gives us anything Chandler doesnt already give us. But at center he gives us a new dimension. Dantoni loves to go small anyway, so Randolph at center, expecially off the bench, shouldnt be a big deal to him. I just think he doesnt like the guy.

Ok, yeah I misunderstood. I would agree with that. Randolph def needs to start playing big. We should send him tapes of Marcus Camby when he was with the Knicks. He would come off the bench and make huge impacts without having a play run for him. Just purely on hustle. Not that I expect AR to make that type of impact, but he should play that way.

Its frustrating. Does him and the coaching staff realize that he's 6'11" with a huge wingspan?? Yet, seems like he's always on the perimeter. Nobody guards him. And he settles for jumpers. I think this is on the coaching staff more then Randolph as he probably doesnt know any better.

The thing is he already has done the things you said. Did you see him play in Golden State? He played nothing like the way he is now. This is why I blame coaching.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z85vHk5cc98[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgyybTWnyaY[/youtube]


Im not saying to completely erase his other strengths like ball handling and his improved jumper. But its obvious he needs to be playing like the energy player he used to be. I mean is this even the same player? It goes back to my Gallo thread. Dantoni changing the way our players play.

Let's not pretend that Randolph wasn't benched and that he didn't frustrate the hell out of coaches and fans alike in GS. They traded him for a reason. At some point the player has to take it upon himself to improve his game.