top10 worst defenders among star big men

[bastillon]

name your top10 of the worst defensive bigs among stars.

here's my list without order:
Jerry Lucas
Connie Hawkins
Moses Malone
Tom Chambers
Charles Barkley
Vin Baker
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin
Carlos Boozer

[Dr Positivity]

I wouldn't put Bosh on the list based on his MIA play. I'd definitely put Love on the list before him. Are Lee and Jamison ineligible?

[lorak]

Bosh is good defender. Griffin horrible man to man defender, but very good on p&r and overall is at least average and improves with every month.
Moses and Connie also shouldn't be on that list.

Heinsohn, Jamison, Lee and... I'm not sure, maybe McAdoo? This thread should be about them.

[koogiking]

How dare you put Moses Malone on that liist

[tsherkin]

Barkley actually doesn't belong on that list either. He wasn't a wretched waste-of-skin defender like, say, Amare. He was a great defensive rebounder who, especially in Philly, played the passing lanes and blocked some shots. He certainly wasn't significantly above average, but he wasn't epic-fail, either.

[penbeast0]

Barkley certainly does belong. He was a great rebounder, period, but his defensive rotations were awful and he was beaten man to man by any decent scorer with regularity. His strength defensively was that his lower body strength made him difficult to muscle to get position but he was caught looking the wrong way or just not paying adequate attention more than any HOF big I can remember in my lifetime (never really saw Lucas play defense much except with the Knicks where he put in a decent effort although he was pretty slow and unathletic by then). Blocking shots can be good or bad depending on how much you bite on fakes . . . look at JaVale McGee, a great shotblocker and (so far) piss poor defender.

[tsherkin]

Barkley certainly does belong. He was a great rebounder, period, but his defensive rotations were awful and he was beaten man to man by any decent scorer with regularity. His strength defensively was that his lower body strength made him difficult to muscle to get position but he was caught looking the wrong way or just not paying adequate attention more than any HOF big I can remember in my lifetime (never really saw Lucas play defense much except with the Knicks where he put in a decent effort although he was pretty slow and unathletic by then). Blocking shots can be good or bad depending on how much you bite on fakes . . . look at JaVale McGee, a great shotblocker and (so far) piss poor defender.

I still don't think Barkley belongs amongst the worst defensive star bigs, though. I mean, I guess in a relative sense, he was a lot worse than the great centers and certainly not as good as Garnett or even Malone, but I don't think he was a REALLY bad defender in an absolute sense. He wasn't good, but he wasn't terrible.

[shawngoat23]

No opinion on Jerry Lucas or Connie Hawkins.

Moses may not have deserved some of his all-defensive team nods, but no way is he one of the worst defensive big (among stars). i don't think Bosh is that bad either.

[Dipper 13]

Jerry Lucas

At 4:05 mark he fails to step out agressively and keep Greer from getting to the rim (on top of fouling him with an elbow to the head). At 5:36 mark he falls asleep & Wilt hits Chet for a layup.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80[/youtube]

[franktony]

I won't give an opinion based of guys that I've barely seen playing.

Right now, among starters (some stars, some not) i'd say:

Al Jefferson
David Lee
Carlos Boozer
Luis Scola
Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Amare Stoudamire
Dirk Nowitzki
DeAndre Jordan
Zach Randolph

[bastillon]

Dirk and Scola are good defenders.

as for Barkley, his teams improved a lot on defense when he wasn't playing. he's not elite defensive rebounder either, particularly in his prime (ended in 93) when he posted pedestrian 21% DRB. Barkley improved as a defender (and rebounder) in the playoffs though, so that helps a bit. but he's effort in the RS was so pathetic that he's certainly right there with guys like Griffin and Lucas. obviously he's no Amare but Amare is on his own planet in terms of terrible defense.

Moses wasn't exactly a defensive mastermind either. his teams were as bad as 00s Raptors defensively and dude just didn't make a lot of impact. I mean look at those Rockets on defense:
77 - 22/22
78 - 22/22
79 - 21/22
80 - 18/22
81 - 16/22
82 - 16/23

when you're playing the most mins in the league on the worst defensive team in the league you can't be playing good defense. if you think this could be a case, show me a good defender playing that many mins on a team this bad defensively.

[lorak]

Dirk and Scola are good defenders.

as for Barkley, his teams improved a lot on defense when he wasn't playing. he's not elite defensive rebounder either, particularly in his prime (ended in 93) when he posted pedestrian 21% DRB. Barkley improved as a defender (and rebounder) in the playoffs though, so that helps a bit. but he's effort in the RS was so pathetic that he's certainly right there with guys like Griffin and Lucas. obviously he's no Amare but Amare is on his own planet in terms of terrible defense.

Moses wasn't exactly a defensive mastermind either. his teams were as bad as 00s Raptors defensively and dude just didn't make a lot of impact. I mean look at those Rockets on defense:
77 - 22/22
78 - 22/22
79 - 21/22
80 - 18/22
81 - 16/22
82 - 16/23

when you're playing the most mins in the league on the worst defensive team in the league you can't be playing good defense. if you think this could be a case, show me a good defender playing that many mins on a team this bad defensively.

Easy ;]
2000 Hawks with Mutombo.+3.8 drtg
Besides, nobody is saying Moses was defensive anchor! He simply wasn't as bad as Amare and doesn't belong on list like that. The same with Connie, Bosh who is very good defender, and Griffin who is average.

[wallyb]

Dirk and Scola are good defenders.

as for Barkley, his teams improved a lot on defense when he wasn't playing. he's not elite defensive rebounder either, particularly in his prime (ended in 93) when he posted pedestrian 21% DRB. Barkley improved as a defender (and rebounder) in the playoffs though, so that helps a bit. but he's effort in the RS was so pathetic that he's certainly right there with guys like Griffin and Lucas. obviously he's no Amare but Amare is on his own planet in terms of terrible defense.

Moses wasn't exactly a defensive mastermind either. his teams were as bad as 00s Raptors defensively and dude just didn't make a lot of impact. I mean look at those Rockets on defense:
77 - 22/22
78 - 22/22
79 - 21/22
80 - 18/22
81 - 16/22
82 - 16/23

when you're playing the most mins in the league on the worst defensive team in the league you can't be playing good defense. if you think this could be a case, show me a good defender playing that many mins on a team this bad defensively.

While I'm not sure I'd rank Moses among the absolute worst defensive bigs of all time in this case I agree with your point regarding his low impact on team D ratings. However, I'd caution against relying on team D rankings to prove how much of an impact a player has defensively. Sometimes a great defensive impact player is surrounded by poor defenders and/or doesn't have a good defensive-minded head coach and thus his teams aren't good defensively despite his awesome presence. Garnett in Minny is a prime example of this.

[penbeast0]

name your top10 of the worst defensive bigs among stars.

Understanding that we are talking about HOF or HOF candidate bigs only (so no Blake Griffin):

Charles Barkley
Dirk Nowitzki (average defender but most all-time greats are a lot better than average)
Moses Malone (slightly better than Dirk for his day as low post defense was more important)
Spencer Haywood

Dan Issel
Neil Johnston
Jerry Lucas
Amare Stoudamire

Chris Webber (good help defender but one of worst at keeping opps from getting good post position)
Tommy Heinsohn
Ed Macauley
Bob McAdoo (only 2 All-PRO awards but deserves a mention here)

Could also go with Walt Bellamy, Tom Chambers, Bailey Howell, Brad Daugherty, etc. but not quite up to the "star level" of the top 12.

[lorak]

name your top10 of the worst defensive bigs among stars.

here's my list without order:
Jerry Lucas
Connie Hawkins
Moses Malone
Tom Chambers
Charles Barkley
Vin Baker
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin
Carlos Boozer