Latest Celtics rumors

[Smitty731]

Re-post from the Celtics board:

Ok so I picked a terrible day to go a pool party and then hit the store. I also ignored my phone until I saw a bunch of texts. Took me a while to catch up.

Here is what I've been able to put together:

1. Sources are split if Zeller has actually signed or just agreed. If he agreed, there is still the potential they could add a year on to the deal (also non-guaranteed) and still use him in a S&T. If he has actually signed, S&T is out as he can't be dealt until 12/15 and a S&T has to be for at least 3 seasons.

2. Another source told me that the intention behind signing Zeller and Green is to make it more palatable to trade other guys. This source is also convinced that in any trade with the Clippers, that Amir Johnson is the guy that LAC wants because he would give them good depth behind Jordan and can play next to him.

3. One source says that the dream is both Griffin and Westbrook, but that Boston recognizes that is highly unlikely. This source continues to insist that one or both will be in green by the start of the year and probably by the end of July. Not sure how much I buy in to that timing.

4. If the deal is with LAC for Griffin and Pierce there are two versions floating around:

A. Amir Johnson, Jae Crowder, and John Holland and 1 1st round pick (not necessarily a BRK pick)
B. Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, Jordan Mickey and John Holland and 1 BRK pick

5. In relation to the above, Sacramento is not currently in. If they get back in, Boston would like to tweak the deal to deliver LAC Rudy Gay, Amir Johnson and a 1st round pick (non-BRK) while Sacramento gets Terry Rozier and something else.

6. LAC is NOT shopping Blake Griffin, but they are listening. There is a major difference. Same with Sacramento and Rudy Gay.

7. On Westbrook:

A. The Celtics would love to have him, but have no intention of gutting the team so much that they can't contend.
B. Boston would love to work a trade that delivers them Westbrook using some combination of Marcus Smart, a BRK pick and players. The problem is salary matching gets tricky.

8. And probably the biggest news of all: Everyone I talked to said that IF Boston is willing to part with a current player of value AND at least 1 BRK pick, they will start the season with either Griffin or Westbrook in the lineup. It is simply a case of deciding to pull that trigger and make the leap. What the major hold up is that neither Griffin or Westbrook seem very interested in re-upping long term at this point. Both intend on hitting the market this summer.

[jbk1234]

If Doc is considering trade Blake without getting a Brooklyn pick and wing help back, he should be relieved of his duties.

[Patsfan1081]

If Doc is considering trade Blake without getting a Brooklyn pick and wing help back, he should be relieved of his duties.

I can see the hood up as both seem very likely to test free agency. As a Celtic fan I'd be okay with them adding the 2018 Nets pick in a package as for Griffen as I believe there could be a chance he likes Boston and would agree to sign long term. With Westbrook I think there's zero percent.

[Smitty731]

If Doc is considering trade Blake without getting a Brooklyn pick and wing help back, he should be relieved of his duties.

I don't know the truth of this, but LAC fully expects Griffin to leave after this year. They also are supposedly privately admitting they can't beat GSW this year.

So it makes sense they would look to recoup some assets now for the only piece they would consider trading.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I'm sure Boston would love to have Russ for Smart, a BKN pick, and change, but that's not happening.

[jbk1234]

If Doc is considering trade Blake without getting a Brooklyn pick and wing help back, he should be relieved of his duties.

I don't know the truth of this, but LAC fully expects Griffin to leave after this year. They also are supposedly privately admitting they can't beat GSW this year.

So it makes sense they would look to recoup some assets now for the only piece they would consider trading.

Assuming all of that is true, Boston isn't the only team in the league with assets. The best piece in those offers is either Crowder OR the 2018 Brooklyn 1st? That's not enough for Blake even if he's only under contract for one more year. The only thing that's tempering my critique of Doc is the knowledge that just because the Clippers are listening to those offers doesn't mean they're anywhere close to accepting them.

[Smitty731]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value. The team trading the superstar generally loses the trade. At least from the initial POV. Years later, the entire narrative may flip.

As far as Griffin goes, there is still some very significant concern that he's not healthy. That is another reason LAC might not be all that willing to turn down less value than people think is fair.

And don't underestimate fit, style and team chemistry. That is all I want to say on that at this point.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value. The team trading the superstar generally loses the trade. At least from the initial POV. Years later, the entire narrative may flip.

As far as Griffin goes, there is still some very significant concern that he's not healthy. That is another reason LAC might not be all that willing to turn down less value than people think is fair.

And don't underestimate fit, style and team chemistry. That is all I want to say on that at this point.

There's a difference between not getting equal value back and only getting one good asset back for a top 5 player. Maybe I'll be wrong. But I don't think it's going to be close to that package.

[Smitty731]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value. The team trading the superstar generally loses the trade. At least from the initial POV. Years later, the entire narrative may flip.

As far as Griffin goes, there is still some very significant concern that he's not healthy. That is another reason LAC might not be all that willing to turn down less value than people think is fair.

And don't underestimate fit, style and team chemistry. That is all I want to say on that at this point.

There's a difference between not getting equal value back and only getting one good asset back for a top 5 player. Maybe I'll be wrong. But I don't think it's going to be close to that package.

I think you are underestimating either Smart or a BRK pick. Many around the league, including many in OKC, love Smart. I mean LOVE him. And feelings are mixed on the BRK picks.

FWIW, I think Westbrook is fairly unlikely myself. I think Griffin is the far more likely trade in comparison to how likely I think a Westbrook trade would be. And I think Griffin is unlikely too. Trades for star level players happen far less than people think.

[mademan]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value. The team trading the superstar generally loses the trade. At least from the initial POV. Years later, the entire narrative may flip.

As far as Griffin goes, there is still some very significant concern that he's not healthy. That is another reason LAC might not be all that willing to turn down less value than people think is fair.

And don't underestimate fit, style and team chemistry. That is all I want to say on that at this point.

One of the packages you had listed there was Amir/Crowder/non-Bkn pick. That is a paltry return for Blake. One above average player, one average to below average player, and a less than mediocre pick. I dont have a high opinion of Doc's GM abilities, but thats just awful

[Smitty731]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value. The team trading the superstar generally loses the trade. At least from the initial POV. Years later, the entire narrative may flip.

As far as Griffin goes, there is still some very significant concern that he's not healthy. That is another reason LAC might not be all that willing to turn down less value than people think is fair.

And don't underestimate fit, style and team chemistry. That is all I want to say on that at this point.

One of the packages you had listed there was Amir/Crowder/non-Bkn pick. That is a paltry return for Blake. One above average player, one average to below average player, and a less than mediocre pick. I dont have a high opinion of Doc's GM abilities, but thats just awful

So was dealing for Raduljica and Delfino just to waive them, when they could have waived guys themselves. So was using every available Exception they've had to continually put themselves up against the Hard Cap.

Outside of nailing Veteran Minimum signings, there isn't a single good move Doc Rivers has made as a GM. Everything else was a team he inherited. His best move was getting Luc Richard Mbah a Moute on a vet minimum and then he made a mess of that by giving him the BAE this year.

That is a long way of saying Doc's track record as a GM is questionable at the very best. And, once again, don't discout fit, style or team chemistry. Some trades are additions by subtraction.

Also neither Crowder or Johnson are average or below average, so you are completely wrong on that. Both have a ton of fans around the league for what they do. Neither is flashy, so they don't make headlines, but both are the type of players all good teams have.

[yosemiteben]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value.

They also are almost never traded.

Those Griffin trades would get blasted if they were fan proposals on this forum.

[mademan]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value. The team trading the superstar generally loses the trade. At least from the initial POV. Years later, the entire narrative may flip.

As far as Griffin goes, there is still some very significant concern that he's not healthy. That is another reason LAC might not be all that willing to turn down less value than people think is fair.

And don't underestimate fit, style and team chemistry. That is all I want to say on that at this point.

One of the packages you had listed there was Amir/Crowder/non-Bkn pick. That is a paltry return for Blake. One above average player, one average to below average player, and a less than mediocre pick. I dont have a high opinion of Doc's GM abilities, but thats just awful

So was dealing for Raduljica and Delfino just to waive them, when they could have waived guys themselves. So was using every available Exception they've had to continually put themselves up against the Hard Cap.

Outside of nailing Veteran Minimum signings, there isn't a single good move Doc Rivers has made as a GM. Everything else was a team he inherited. His best move was getting Luc Richard Mbah a Moute on a vet minimum and then he made a mess of that by giving him the BAE this year.

That is a long way of saying Doc's track record as a GM is questionable at the very best. And, once again, don't discout fit, style or team chemistry. Some trades are additions by subtraction.

Also neither Crowder or Johnson are average or below average, so you are completely wrong on that. Both have a ton of fans around the league for what they do. Neither is flashy, so they don't make headlines, but both are the type of players all good teams have.

If you had to rank the value given by all the PF's in the league, would Amir rank over 20? He didnt even clearly outplay Sullinger last year, who is the definition of average to below average.

Do the same thing for Crowder. He's probably at the backend of the top 10 SF's which makes him above average. I dont think he's at a different level than a guy like Kent Bazemore. And Crowder's really only had 1 good year. And fit/chemistry is all well and good, but this type of trade is leaving a crapton of value on the table.

Like i said, i dont have a high opinion of Doc at all; but Blake Griffin is absolutely a bonafide top 10 talent in this league. You dont trade that for 2 (lets say above) average players and less than mediocre picks. If Doc was gonna sell him light, I think Crowder/Amir/18th BKN pick should be the minimum he asks for

[Smitty731]

One of the packages you had listed there was Amir/Crowder/non-Bkn pick. That is a paltry return for Blake. One above average player, one average to below average player, and a less than mediocre pick. I dont have a high opinion of Doc's GM abilities, but thats just awful

So was dealing for Raduljica and Delfino just to waive them, when they could have waived guys themselves. So was using every available Exception they've had to continually put themselves up against the Hard Cap.

Outside of nailing Veteran Minimum signings, there isn't a single good move Doc Rivers has made as a GM. Everything else was a team he inherited. His best move was getting Luc Richard Mbah a Moute on a vet minimum and then he made a mess of that by giving him the BAE this year.

That is a long way of saying Doc's track record as a GM is questionable at the very best. And, once again, don't discout fit, style or team chemistry. Some trades are additions by subtraction.

Also neither Crowder or Johnson are average or below average, so you are completely wrong on that. Both have a ton of fans around the league for what they do. Neither is flashy, so they don't make headlines, but both are the type of players all good teams have.

If you had to rank the value given by all the PF's in the league, would Amir rank over 20? He didnt even clearly outplay Sullinger last year, who is the definition of average to below average.

Do the same thing for Crowder. He's probably at the backend of the top 10 SF's which makes him above average. I dont think he's at a different level than a guy like Kent Bazemore. And Crowder's really only had 1 good year. And fit/chemistry is all well and good, but this type of trade is leaving a crapton of value on the table.

Like i said, i dont have a high opinion of Doc at all; but Blake Griffin is absolutely a bonafide top 10 talent in this league. You dont trade that for 2 (lets say above) average players and less than mediocre picks. If Doc was gonna sell him light, I think Crowder/Amir/18th BKN pick should be the minimum he asks for

Johnson was far better than Sullinger. They aren't even in the same ballpark. Johnson gives a consistent effort every single night and does a ton of stuff that doesn't show up in box scores. Sullinger would have a good game or two and the be awful for days.

And you are underestimating Crowder as well. Lots of people around the league love the guy and think he's only going to continue to get better.

And I'm just telling you what the Celtics want to do. Not necessarily how it would go down. And Griffin's star has fallen quite a bit over the last year or so. He doesn't have the value he once did.

Again, I'm not saying anything happens. It is far more likely nothing happens than any trade happens. I'm just posting what is out there.

[Texas Chuck]

Ainge just wants to rip everyone off with lowball offers.
Smitty is just doing this to be an attention whore.
Rentals aren't worth trading for.


Just trying to cover all the usual bullet points.

[Texas Chuck]

If you had to rank the value given by all the PF's in the league, would Amir rank over 20? He didnt even clearly outplay Sullinger last year, who is the definition of average to below average.

I know one guy used to play for the Raptors and left. And one guy just signed with the Raptors.

But despite that its pretty universally known that to date Amir Johnson has clearly been the superior player.

Inefficient scoring volume isn't really all that valuable.

[Slacktard]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value.

They also are almost never traded.

Those Griffin trades would get blasted if they were fan proposals on this forum.

The Sixers have traded away their superstar three times in franchise history and lost all three times. Wilt, Barkley, and AI.

A 29 year old Barkley for a 29 year old Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang? I would take Jae Crowder and a Brooklyn 1st a million times over that.

[wickedwrister]

Another day, another round of Boston is about to trade for a superstar rumors. One of these days it will actually be true but has there ever been a front office that more aggressively leaks to the media the things it might do?

[Texas Chuck]

Another day, another round of Boston is about to trade for a superstar rumors. One of these days it will actually be true but has there ever been a front office that more aggressively leaks to the media the things it might do?

I knew I forgot one of the talking points.

[jayjaysee]

I think people are forgetting that superstars almost never return equal value.

They also are almost never traded.

Those Griffin trades would get blasted if they were fan proposals on this forum.

The Sixers have traded away their superstar three times in franchise history and lost all three times. Wilt, Barkley, and AI.

A 29 year old Barkley for a 29 year old Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang? I would take Jae Crowder and a Brooklyn 1st a million times over that.

I don't like to question Smitty and believe this is what he was told. Nor assume you are a Celtic fan so you hold any bias.

But defending one-sided trades with the fact that one-sided trades have happened, is not the best argument. Denver, Utah, Orlando, maybe even Minnesota fans can tell you how good trading stars can be in the last decade.

I can't imagine Doc is this bad of a GM.

I mean is this offer better than what OKC got for Ibaka, coming off a down year as an expiring? In terms of need Ersan is Amir. Dipo is Jae, I don't know who has more value, but I'd take Dipo. A pick two years down the road shouldn't value too much more than Sabonis, if at all.

Not saying this isn't the rumor, but I can't imagine it getting done with the suggested offer.

And I'd rather have Amir than Sully.