Damian Lillard VS Kyrie Irving

Chi · Post #1 » by **Chi** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:46 am

I know it's a big difference between having Lebron and not having Lebron as a teammate but hopefully we can still have a logical conclusion on who's better between these two.

Who ya got?

RCM88x · Post #2 » by **RCM88x** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:06 am

Both are horrible defensively. Kyries a bit more efficient, but I think Lillard is the more resilient and more consistently capable of carrying an offense due to his passing.

Really kind of a pick em in my opinion. Though, I believe both teams would be worse if they switched places.

Statlanta · Post #3 » by **Statlanta** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:13 am

Like the above Cavs fan suggests it's a wash. Brownie points goes to the guy who out-peformed the MVP in the Finals though it is not out of the realm of possibility that Dame can do that.

Clipsz 4 Life · Post #4 » by **Tim Lehrbach** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:36 am

It's really hard to say. Lillard has been better and healthier overall, but Kyrie's 2016 playoffs constitute by far the most significant accomplishment for either player.

I pick Damian because homer.

Post #5 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:25 am

People vastly underrate Lillard's intangibles IMO. Substitute Kyrie on the 2016 Blazers and they miss the playoffs... Think pre-LeBron Cavs with a slightly better supporting cast. Dame is a stone cold killer and the type of leader I would kill for on the Sixers.

Colbinii · Post #6 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:36 am

doubleC 0725 wrote:People vastly underrate Lillard's intangibles IMO. Substitute Kyrie on the 2016 Blazers and they miss the playoffs... Think pre-LeBron Cavs with a slightly better supporting cast. Dame is a stone cold killer and the type of leader I would kill for on the Sixers.

Do you think the Cavs can win the finals with Lillard instead of Kyrie? Lillard has had one series in the post-season that was similar to Kyrie's NBA finals, and that was against a much worse defensive team.

Post #7 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:51 am

Colbinii wrote:
doubleC 0725 wrote:People vastly underrate Lillard's intangibles IMO. Substitute Kyrie on the 2016 Blazers and they miss the playoffs... Think pre-LeBron Cavs with a slightly better supporting cast. Dame is a stone cold killer and the type of leader I would kill for on the Sixers.

Do you think the Cavs can win the finals with Lillard instead of Kyrie? Lillard has had one series in the post-season that was similar to Kyrie's NBA finals, and that was against a much worse defensive team.

Lillard never had the luxury of playing next to Bron. No reason to believe the Cavs would be worse off with Dame, so in that sense I do think they win regardless. I don't see it as an upgrade though, the way I do with Portland, because leadership qualities are less important for second fiddles.

Post #8 » by **bondom34** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:57 am

I tend to agree with the above, I'd take Lillard personally.

K_chile22 · Post #9 » by **K_chile22** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:23 am

Both are remarkably similar. Use the comparison tool on Bball ref, go to advanced, cover their names, and you won't see really any difference. They also are extremely similar stylistically. I think it's a coin toss and if you think one or the other is better it could be argued but I don't think anyone could say one is significantly better than the other

homecourtloss · Post #10 » by **homecourtloss** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:12 am

K_chile22 wrote:Both are remarkably similar. Use the comparison tool on Bball ref, go to advanced, cover their names, and you won't see really any difference. They also are extremely similar stylistically. I think it's a coin toss and if you think one or the other is better it could be argued but I don't think anyone could say one is significantly better than the other

Pretty much. I have to go with Kyrie right now because he actually DID wind up playing three incredible games to help the Cavs win the title. It will be interesting to see if he can do it again or defend reasonably well like he did in those games. Also, Kyrie has shown he's a playoff player whose offense and shooting doesn't diminish at all,

Im Your Father · Post #11 » by **Im Your Father** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:08 pm

I think it's close, but I lean Irving. I also don't think there's a player who gets less of the benefit of the doubt on this forum than Kyrie, other than Kobe.

SlowPaced · Post #12 » by **SlowPaced** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:34 pm

It's a wash for me. I have Lillard #5 and Kyrie #6 among PGs right now but there's really no difference.

LivingLegend · Post #13 » by **LivingLegend** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:49 pm

I would say they are borderline the same player but then last years playoffs happened. I will give the edge to Kyrie now because of what he was able to do in the playoffs and basically outperforming Steph Curry for an entire 7 game series. That gives him my vote. His ability to perform on a big stage and his 'clutch' stats/shooting is absolutely incredible

mischievous · Post #14 » by **mischievous** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:32 pm

Colbinii wrote:
doubleC 0725 wrote:People vastly underrate Lillard's intangibles IMO. Substitute Kyrie on the 2016 Blazers and they miss the playoffs... Think pre-LeBron Cavs with a slightly better supporting cast. Dame is a stone cold killer and the type of leader I would kill for on the Sixers.

Do you think the Cavs can win the finals with Lillard instead of Kyrie? Lillard has had one series in the post-season that was similar to Kyrie's NBA finals, and that was against a much worse defensive team.

I think it would just call for timely performances like Kyrie had in game 5. However Lillard may have played better to the point where they don't go down 3-1 in the first place. I think Lillard is better if nothing else from durabilty, Kyrie missed like 30 games last year.

BasketballFan7 · Post #15 » by **BasketballFan7** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:00 pm

It is a lot easier to game plan for Lillard than it is for Irving. Lillard's offensive repertoire is far more limited than Irving's. I've went in depth on it before and don't have the time to do so again, but that makes the choice Irving in my book.

Post #16 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:47 pm

mischievous wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
doubleC 0725 wrote:People vastly underrate Lillard's intangibles IMO. Substitute Kyrie on the 2016 Blazers and they miss the playoffs... Think pre-LeBron Cavs with a slightly better supporting cast. Dame is a stone cold killer and the type of leader I would kill for on the Sixers.

Do you think the Cavs can win the finals with Lillard instead of Kyrie? Lillard has had one series in the post-season that was similar to Kyrie's NBA finals, and that was against a much worse defensive team.

I think it would just call for timely performances like Kyrie had in game 5. However Lillard may have played better to the point where they don't go down 3-1 in the first place. I think Lillard is better if nothing else from durabilty, Kyrie missed like 30 games last year.

Damn those shattered kneecaps.

Statlanta · Post #17 » by **Statlanta** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:34 pm

LivingLegend wrote:

This made me lol especially considering the fact we call that other guy the GOAT shooter and Kyrie won the 3pt contest before him.

Chi · Post #18 » by **Chi** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:00 pm

Lol... Looks like I picked a pretty good one here...

Looks like a tie so far...

mademan · Post #19 » by **mademan** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:29 pm

I like Lillard because he's more consistent. But I also believe that Kyrie's diverse skillset makes him more reliable in the PO against quality defenders. It's not soo many point guards that can do what he did against GSW, who arguably have the best wing defense in the league (after SAS)

Pelly24 · Post #20 » by **Pelly24** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:48 am

doubleC 0725 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
doubleC 0725 wrote:People vastly underrate Lillard's intangibles IMO. Substitute Kyrie on the 2016 Blazers and they miss the playoffs... Think pre-LeBron Cavs with a slightly better supporting cast. Dame is a stone cold killer and the type of leader I would kill for on the Sixers.

Do you think the Cavs can win the finals with Lillard instead of Kyrie? Lillard has had one series in the post-season that was similar to Kyrie's NBA finals, and that was against a much worse defensive team.

Lillard never had the luxury of playing next to Bron. No reason to believe the Cavs would be worse off with Dame, so in that sense I do think they win regardless. I don't see it as an upgrade though, the way I do with Portland, because leadership qualities are less important for second fiddles.

Here's what I'll say about that: Dame still played with another top 12-15 player in LMA, and he still had a great perimeter defender next to him and a few other good role players. Dame still shot under 40% or around in all of his trips to the playoffs. Dame had a better streak of scoring than any Kyrie has had this season, but we've never seen him sustain any significant playoff success, and here's why: He's not as well-rounded an offensive player as Kyrie. Dame isn't as quick or crafty as Kyrie, his standing reach is lower than Kyrie's by four inches, his body control isn't as good so he's not as good of a finisher, and he's a much worse midrange shooter, while only arguably being a slightly better 3ball shooter. When Dame's not hitting his long range jumpers, his offense goes to hell. When Kyrie isn't hitting his 3ball, he can still be a one man fastbreak and score in transition. He can still hit floaters and fadeaway Kobe jumpshots. He's athletic and quick enough to slither through any defense and make reverse layups. Dame literally looked completely flustered by Klay Thompson. Another thing that's underrated about the Trail Blazers is the rapid improvement of CJ McCollum as probably an Eastern Conference All Star level player. That was as big of a reason for their success as Dame's play, or at least not too much less of one. That Trail Blazers team is MUCH better than Kyrie's pre-lebron Cavs. And Kyrie was also 19-21 years old, while Dame was 25 years old this past season, so not a good comparison. Overall, I haven't seen anything that says Kyrie definitely can't lead a team with decent talent to the playoffs. However, I have seen that Dame is not on the same level as Harden, Curry, Westbrook, CP3, Tony Parker a few years ago, and honestly, he was getting outplayed by Mike Conley before Conley got his face destroyed. Truth is, Dame is not someone who is capable of outplaying the best players in the NBA during a playoff series. Kyrie was definitely helped out by LeBron, but Kyrie arguably helped LeBron out almost as much as vice versa. Kyrie had a 30% usage rate during the playoffs while averaging 25 ppg on 48/44/91 splits with 5 assists and only 2 turnovers. He also averaged like 2 steals and half a block a game. Kyrie had a 24.7 PER during the playoffs. He was basically an elite shooting guard this past postseason. He was, no exaggerating, 2011 DWade this past postseason. Either that or 2002 Kobe. It was a postseason that rivals almost any other guard's over the past 10 years. He had LeBron, but he was also as successful as you can possibly be, so it's not like you can say anyone would have done better, because he did literally as well as it could be done by beating a banged up, but still elite team in the NBA finals, while putting up numbers that would easily get you Finals MVP most years. I just haven't seen any indication that Dame can do that. Those shots Kyrie was very efficiently hitting all playoffs aren't shots that anyone in the league now can hit regularly.

Damian or Kyrie