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Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards

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nate33
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#21 » by nate33 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:11 pm

TGW wrote:Both teams suck. The fact that it's worth making a new thread about this tells you how much this franchise stinks.

Sorry...I'm drunk in Mexico. Excuse my poor attempt at a constructive post.

A very poor attempt :lol:
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#22 » by TGW » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:Both teams suck. The fact that it's worth making a new thread about this tells you how much this franchise stinks.

Sorry...I'm drunk in Mexico. Excuse my poor attempt at a constructive post.

A very poor attempt :lol: .


I know. Don’t text when drunk.

But to answer your original post, i think Gortat vs Bryant is really the difference between the two teams. Gortat was Uber-consistent and kept his dud games to a minimum. I don’t know if the stats show this, but my overall impression is that Bryant offsets his dud games with ridiculously efficient games. I wasn’t a fan of gortat because of his defensive limitations, but you knew what you were getting every night. He was a steady producer. I don’t have that type of faith in Bryant.

And needless to say, but the 2020 Wall is going to be bad. Just looking at players who suffered a similar injury, those players always needed 2-3 seasons before they were actually able to play at a high level.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#23 » by doclinkin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:47 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ Well done...

My take is it is about the best three players. Wall < 2016; Beal > 2016; Anyone else < Porter.

Add to that the east is stronger and the league is better. So, I don't think we get the same win total.

One factor being overlooked:

Tommy >>> Ernie MF Grunfeld

So this... which means we could get someone good in the draft. And one thing I didn't say, one of the youngsters could bust out.



And trade and free agency. And right, I'm thinking good things are coming from Bonga and the bench and back-ups. Plus in Ish Smith we finally have a starter quality back-up point. I know the team is expecting TBJ to develop into that role, and okay, maybe, shrug, but with Ish we have minimal drop-off when we go to the bench here, which means the team is not required to play both Wall and Beal 40+ minutes a game. Depth matters.

We have holes in the roster for sure, and it is yet to be seen if we retain Bertans, but considering we had turnover amounting to an entire team since the last GM (Beal, Wall, the 2 TBJ's. Who else is left from the Ernie era?) we have to expect this team may see other dynamic moves before we step back and say 'this is our roster'. We haven't had an offseason yet.
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#24 » by payitforward » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:03 pm

We don't know that Bertans will be on the Wizards, but even if he is, even with him, we have exactly 8 guys right now who have shown they can play in the NBA at some level that at least keeps you in the league (i.e. from minimally passable to really good): Wall, Beal, Brown, Bryant, Bonga, Rui, Davis & Ish.

So, how can anyone predict anything? It's a ridiculous idea! We don't know who half the team will be! On top of that, we have John coming back after essentially two years off.

Let's say we put Mathews on the regular roster, & he plays well -- the way he played in 200+ minutes this year. Let's say we come out of the draft with 2 really good prospects -- maybe 3.

You know what we'll have done? What that will mean?

It'll mean that we have continued our rebuild! That's what it will mean. Because, that is what we are doing. The Washington Wizards are rebuilding.

How many guys will be on the team who were on the team when the season ended in March 2018? Two players. Wall & Beal.

If you don't think that is "rebuilding" I'd really like to hear how you define the term!
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#25 » by dckingsfan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:22 pm

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ - So, that means you think we will win more games :D
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#26 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 pm

If John comes back strong & stays healthy for the season, then obviously we will win more games than this year! If he is back to his old self, his presence could easily make an 8-10 game difference.
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#27 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:05 pm

Whatever our record, we are STILL a rebuilding team.

If you only have four guys who were at the end of the previous season (2018-19)...
...If you only have two guys who were with you two seasons ago...
...you are rebuilding.

If both those things are true & you just had a 30-win season, which followed a 32-win season...
...you are a rebuilding team.

If, in addition to that, you actually only have 8 players under contract (& 1 whose option we'll pick up) -- 3 of whom have by no means shown anything to make you think they can last in the league (let alone actually be good players!) -- plus 1 2-way player who might be promising...
...you are rebuilding.

The total of our current assets that anyone would give at least a R2 pick for in a trade:
John Wall, Brad Beal, Thomas Bryant, Troy Brown, Rui Hachimura, Isaac Bonga.

Somebody may wish to point to Jerome Robinson. Worth being reminded that we just got him straight-up for IT, whom the Clippers promptly waived. I.e. they gave him to us for nothing. Nobody offered more. That's what he's worth as an asset.

We are rebuilding more or less from the ground up; we've kept John & Brad. That's it.
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Re: Comparing the 2020-21 Wizards to the 2016-17 Wizards 

Post#28 » by WizarDynasty » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:04 pm

payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:PIF.. Agreed on Otto, though you could combine Bonga + Bertans and get about the same Total minutes as Otto and have an interesting Comp due to Bonga's efficiency and defense....

I love Bonga. I liked him in the '18 draft, & I like him more now. I think he's going to be a really good player. But, no, man, no. We can't make some amalgam of Bertans & Bonga & make it look anything like Otto Porter's tip top best year.

pcbothwel wrote:As for Rui (And Otto, Brown, Bryant), we can only go by what they did last year... But I think another year together in conjunction with their youth and better supporting cast lend me to believe we'll see quite an improvement.

How'd you get Otto back on the team!! :)

I'm very positive on Thomas Bryant & Troy Brown. Brown is a terrific prospect -- incredibly young & already significantly improved. I hope for him to become a truly outstanding NBA player in the next few years. As to Bryant, I think he's a tremendous prospect too. There's work to do, & maybe there are some defensive limitations that won't be overcome easily, but even with those I still think he's a great prospect: I wouldn't rule out an All Star game for Thomas Bryant.

Rui is just a big question mark. So far, he hasn't been good. Period. He hasn't looked like bust who can't play in the league -- not saying that! But, he hasn't looked good. I'll be surprised if he doesn't have a better 2d year better than his rookie year. Disappointed too.

But, being "better" is not the same as being "good." As soon as he's actually good, then continuing improvement will begin to mean more. If it happens.

But, none of this -- even with the most optimistic results -- amounts to saying we'll be a good team in the coming season. It would require a miracle -- more than one! -- for that to become true.

Right now, we have 6 players who really matter to the Wizards: Wall, Beal, Bryant, Brown, Bonga & Rui. We also have an interesting question mark in Garrison Mathews. 4 other guys (Wagner, Robinson, Schofield & Pasecniks) haven't shown they can play in the slightest. I'd trade Wagner for any R2 pick in this draft. I'd let Pasecniks option go without a second thought. I'd be shocked if we could get anything at all for Robinson. I'd waive Schofield & eat his salary so that he can get on with his life, because NBA player is not something he is going to be.

6 guys. That's it. Maybe 7 if we are lucky in Mathews. & we have a solid chance to re-sign Bertans. If so, 8. We also have a veteran journeyman in Ish Smith. He's not core to the team, but he'll be there this year. Plus, we have 2 draft picks. If they're both players, & if Mathews is a hit, & if we re-sign Bertans -- that's 10 guys plus Ish for a year.

I'd call that a rebuilding team.


I am sorry, Thomas Bryant is a bench player. Gortat could run the floor like a deer at his best--but yes, Gortat also did have alot of functional athleticism, he was an upright player that couldn't drop and maintain a low center of gravity with balance for long period of time while dribbling, Bryant runs like he a sprained ankle every time i see him. No burst wants so ever with Bryant. He isn't explosive in the paint, and he can't maintain a low center of gravity to take advantage of his bulk. These are issues that coaches can't fix. As long as he is starting, the wizards will be trash. He is ok to bring off the bench but he is way to slow footed to set good picks, and no explosive feet when maneuvering in the paint and fighting for rebounds, and he can't rise over people and shoot hooks shot with one hand close to the rim. That's a center most effective shot. He is testament that Brooks really doesn't have eye for talent with getting diamonds in the rough. People are attracted to his three point shooting and floor stretching, but if he doesn't have the fundamentals like explosive feet movement and being able to maintain a low center of gravity with his bulk for long durations, who cares if the car has shiny rims. Who cares if you have shiny big mack truck on the outside, that engine breaks down when it has to haul heavy tractors. Bryant is not wearing down undersized front courts, catching all of beals long range missed three pointers, and he isn't clearing the lane by leveraging his man out of the paint to create easy driving lanes for guards.
Leonsis has to get a talent evaluator that recognizes true hip bend-- low center of gravity athleticism. Until the top recognizes it, he won't hire the right people to scout for it. Rui basically fell into his hands, but none of the second round picks or free agent picks up, have great low center of gravity athleticism and handles combined. low center of gravity means, bending knees and hips for extended period while performing explosive basketball movements like driving, stopping and your momentum, and then accelerating while keeping your hips and knees bent the "entire time". None of washington's long list of bigs that were drafted outside Rui, have had this ability and none of the free agents, or dleague players, or whomever they have traded for.

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