2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

[Dutchball97]

About Luka Doncic it feels like we giving him too much credit for a guy who doesn't give effort and energy on defense, he is the new James Harden for me. I will never give credit to guys who focus only on their individual stats. We should reward someone who his team is actually one of the top. Winning should matter the most on this award, this is the right way to me. If you don't want to give it to Giannis because his team is great even without him that's fine. But still the MVP trophy should go to someone that his team is one of the very best. We should rewarding winning culture above everything.

Funny enough I think that's just about the worst way to look at it. It's exactly how a top 15 player like Booker was suddenly 4th in MVP voting last year. Why base an individual award around team record? Winning culture gets rewarded by winning already, the MVP should be used to celebrate individual excellence. It's almost like you're implying Luka is hunting stats and should have a better record, while the Mavs are a perfectly fine 6-4 with a pretty mediocre roster outside of Luka.

Mediocre roster???

DAL w/o Doncic 111min +7.1 netrtg
GSW w/o Curry 182min -22.6 netrtg
DEN w/o Jokic 158min -15.8 netrtg

How do you call Warriors or Denver roster? Moody could be 5th best player after Curry/Green/Looney/Wiggs. I mean "best" is less negative than the rest.

I'm completely at a loss as to how you read the Dallas roster being mediocre meaning that other teams can't be as bad or worse.

[Mike lorenzo]

Funny enough I think that's just about the worst way to look at it. It's exactly how a top 15 player like Booker was suddenly 4th in MVP voting last year. Why base an individual award around team record? Winning culture gets rewarded by winning already, the MVP should be used to celebrate individual excellence. It's almost like you're implying Luka is hunting stats and should have a better record, while the Mavs are a perfectly fine 6-4 with a pretty mediocre roster outside of Luka.

Mediocre roster???

DAL w/o Doncic 111min +7.1 netrtg
GSW w/o Curry 182min -22.6 netrtg
DEN w/o Jokic 158min -15.8 netrtg

How do you call Warriors or Denver roster? Moody could be 5th best player after Curry/Green/Looney/Wiggs. I mean "best" is less negative than the rest.

I'm completely at a loss as to how you read the Dallas roster being mediocre meaning that other teams can't be as bad or worse.

Dallas has good numbers without Luka because they have a very expensive bench THJ 20 Bertans 16 Wood 12 Powell 10...we have a lot of decent players but 0 star talent(not even close)..Mavs 6th best player is better than Moody for sure ..but the 2/3/4/5(Wiggins/Klay/Dray/Poole) are vastly better than the Mavs 2..

[SpreeS]

Mediocre roster???

DAL w/o Doncic 111min +7.1 netrtg
GSW w/o Curry 182min -22.6 netrtg
DEN w/o Jokic 158min -15.8 netrtg

How do you call Warriors or Denver roster? Moody could be 5th best player after Curry/Green/Looney/Wiggs. I mean "best" is less negative than the rest.

I'm completely at a loss as to how you read the Dallas roster being mediocre meaning that other teams can't be as bad or worse.

Dallas has good numbers without Luka because they have a very expensive bench THJ 20 Bertans 16 Wood 12 Powell 10...we have a lot of decent players but 0 star talent(not even close)..Mavs 6th best player is better than Moody for sure ..but the 2/3/4/5(Wiggins/Klay/Dray/Poole) are vastly better than the Mavs 2..

Poole? Klay? Are you kidding? Did you see how they look this season?

Poole WS/48 -0.006 BPM -4.9 VORP -0.2
Klay WS/48 -0.058 BPM -6.1 VORP -0.3

[Dutchball97]

I'm completely at a loss as to how you read the Dallas roster being mediocre meaning that other teams can't be as bad or worse.

Dallas has good numbers without Luka because they have a very expensive bench THJ 20 Bertans 16 Wood 12 Powell 10...we have a lot of decent players but 0 star talent(not even close)..Mavs 6th best player is better than Moody for sure ..but the 2/3/4/5(Wiggins/Klay/Dray/Poole) are vastly better than the Mavs 2..

Poole? Klay? Are you kidding? Did you see how they look this season?

Poole WS/48 -0.006 BPM -4.9 VORP -0.2
Klay WS/48 -0.058 BPM -6.1 VORP -0.3

Curry and Looney are the only Warriors that have been performing up to their standards so far this season but that still doesn't explain your zero sum stance that there can only be one bad roster.

[PedroFlu]

Wrap it up to Giannis already.

[Jez2983]

Write in vote for Jevon Carter vs. OKC

[Dutchball97]

Wrap it up to Giannis already.

Giannis missed the game against OKC, then had his worst performance of the season vs the Hawks and missed another game against OKC right after. He's sliding in all the cumulative stats as well. He's now tied for 5th in VORP and tied for 8th in both WS and RAPTOR WAR. How can anyone look at that and think this is a wrap?

[PedroFlu]

Wrap it up to Giannis already.

Giannis missed the game against OKC, then had his worst performance of the season vs the Hawks and missed another game against OKC right after. He's sliding in all the cumulative stats as well. He's now tied for 5th in VORP and tied for 8th in both WS and RAPTOR WAR. How can anyone look at that and think this is a wrap?

There is a big likelihood of his team having a much better record than his competitor's teams.

[Sgt Major]

This is what Jokic has been dealing with:

Read on Twitter

[Dutchball97]

Wrap it up to Giannis already.

Giannis missed the game against OKC, then had his worst performance of the season vs the Hawks and missed another game against OKC right after. He's sliding in all the cumulative stats as well. He's now tied for 5th in VORP and tied for 8th in both WS and RAPTOR WAR. How can anyone look at that and think this is a wrap?

There is a big likelihood of his team having a much better record than his competitor's teams.

Big likelihood is cap. You can't look at the first 10-12 games and confidently predict the rest of the season from there on out. Especially because the only team they faced that is currently sitting above .500 is the Hawks, who they're 1-1 against this season. Even then it's not like the other MVP candidates are all on struggling teams either, the likes of Jokic, Tatum, Mitchell and Luka are all on teams well over .500 too.

[CharityStripe34]

Moral of the story: this thread was made way too early.

[old skool]

Antetokounmpo is winning the battle for early season narrative, not MVP. I don't think the MVP race has any clarity until the season reaches the 30 game mark or so. The only conclusions that can be reached in the first ten games is that some players have fallen so far behind that they are likely out of the conversation.

I think what drives the early season narrative prematurely anointing Antetokounmpo is Giannis' relentless drive over the past four season when he has produced individually and led his team to mountains of wins. It is easy to expect great things from Antetokounmpo because his performance is the most predictable in the league. He will score a ton of points, grab rebounds at a high level, kick out to perimeter shooters and defend all over the floor. Winning a ton of games softens the impact of his erratic jump shot and FTs. Nobody matches his combination of stats, full court intensity and winning. When he gets off to a MVP start he is tough to catch, but the MVP discussion should focus on results, not expectations.

[HoopsterJones]

Giannis
Luka
Mitchell
Jokic
Tatum

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Antetokounmpo is winning the battle for early season narrative, not MVP. I don't think the MVP race has any clarity until the season reaches the 30 game mark or so. The only conclusions that can be reached in the first ten games is that some players have fallen so far behind that they are likely out of the conversation.

I think what drives the early season narrative prematurely anointing Antetokounmpo is Giannis' relentless drive over the past four season when he has produced individually and led his team to mountains of wins. It is easy to expect great things from Antetokounmpo because his performance is the most predictable in the league. He will score a ton of points, grab rebounds at a high level, kick out to perimeter shooters and defend all over the floor. Winning a ton of games softens the impact of his erratic jump shot and FTs. Nobody matches his combination of stats, full court intensity and winning. When he gets off to a MVP start he is tough to catch, but the MVP discussion should focus on results, not expectations.

I almost feel the Bucks winning games (especially with Midds out) is more important right now than Giannis's stats. The stats aren't sustainable and small sample size, but having a 10-1 start has a last impact on win totals for the year. If Bucks win 60-games this year, top in the East and Giannis has the same numbers he has had for 4 years, it will be extremely to give it to a 50 win Luka or Jokic

[AussieBuck]

MVP award tracker looking about right:

Giannis 51.5%
Doncic 25.8%
Jokic 8.4%
Mitchell 6%
Tatum 3%

[Cubbies2120]

MVP award tracker looking about right:

Giannis 51.5%
Doncic 25.8%
Jokic 8.4%
Mitchell 6%
Tatum 3%

It shows no love to Damian Lillard tho?

29/5/5 on 48/40/87% shooting splits, and in the games that he played the full game, they're 6-0 (He got injured in the Heat game they lost).

[Roy The Natural]

MVP award tracker looking about right:

Giannis 51.5%
Doncic 25.8%
Jokic 8.4%
Mitchell 6%
Tatum 3%

It shows no love to Damian Lillard tho?

29/5/5 on 48/40/87% shooting splits, and in the games that he played the full game, they're 6-0 (He got injured in the Heat game they lost).

Hasn't played enough games though TBH. Even as a Blazer fan... if the Blazers are going to play like they are right now the rest of this year and Dame can stay on the court and play as he has been, he's for sure a front runner.

[Hobo4President]

After Doncic's last 2 games it's back to Giannis leading for me

[The Lazy Potato]

Luka Doncic is the new James Harden in so many ways. He need to give some effort and energy on defense too if he wants to win more games..

[sunsbg]

Not surprising he turned into full-mode Harden as I said in a previous post, but he needs to start playmaking. He already cooled off as a scorer, but 6ast and 5TO last game, something similar the previous one, makes it even worse. It's the chicken and the egg about his usage and team roster. No good playmaker will go to the Mavs seeing Luka dominating every possession of 5-6min stretches regularly. Best bet for the Mavs is drafting one like they did with Brunson.

Luka still betting favourite on the site I use, but they'll probably move Giannis up soon.