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Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#81 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:24 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
lobosloboslobos wrote:I am fully aboard the Scottie train and want to see him running the offense more and more, but there's something to be said for not just handing him the reins from the get go. he clearly did not have the offensive drive to dominate when he came into the league, but by making him want more, making him crave that role by not giving it to him, and making him earn it by going out there and showing what he can do, well I support that approach. He is growing into his offense and his leadership and that is fine. having said that at this point he has paid a fair amount of dues and is figuring it out, and understanding what is needed of him, and he is clearly ready for a much bigger load in the second half of this season.

This is all people are saying. Barnes wasn’t ready before and his development probably would have been negatively impacted by giving him the keys at that time. However, Barnes is proving that he’s definitely ready for an increased role and can handle lead reps. In fact, I think the team is starting to move in this direction. Go look at whose hands the ball was in to start the 3rd Q against Portland yesterday—it was Barnes. That was very eye opening for me considering Fred was having a good game to that point and Siakam is Siakam. Yet it was Barnes who was the initiator to start the 3rd.

I just hope Fred and Siakam are ready to relinquish some possessions as Scottie continues to prove that our team is better off with him getting reps as the hub.


What does Scottie getting lead reps look like to you? I don't think he can consistently beat guys off the dribble, and that's even with him getting some of the worst defenders hidden on him. I don't think he's a significant post-up threat, and I don't think that an NBA team can effectively build an offense around a 6"8 post-up game. Entry passes eventually get jumped. Passing along the perimeter eventually leads to stagnation. He doesn't run pick and roll very much, and I think teams would just always go under. They need to be able to utilize him in ways that actually makes sense for him and everyone else. I just don't see what it looks like right now. There isn't a single offensive hub that drives as little as he does that isn't a big post-up C. imo it'll be so obvious when he gets the ball more because he'll be consistently shifting the defense with the ball in his hands. We're just a couple of weeks from Mason Plumlee standing 8 feet off him, and it's confusing to me (aside from wish fulfilment/tanking beliefs/Fred disgust) that fans think he's ready to take lead reps/
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#82 » by OakleyDokely » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:39 pm

Right now, Barnes is a very good connector who fills in the gaps offensively. Surrounding him with talent is the best way to utilize his strengths because he can make those around him even better. He's not the type of player where you clear out and let him attack in isolation Kawhi style.

I think the worst thing for his development would be to give him a 25-30 usage and let him jack up shots. He's only 21 and he's not ready for that. It's going to take him time to develop his shot and some go to moves on the perimeter. We've seen Siakam's crazy growth offensively over the last few years, but it didn't take him only 1.5 years to get there.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#83 » by MoMan24 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:12 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Right now, Barnes is a very good connector who fills in the gaps offensively. Surrounding him with talent is the best way to utilize his strengths because he can make those around him even better. He's not the type of player where you clear out and let him attack in isolation Kawhi style.

I think the worst thing for his development would be to give him a 25-30 usage and let him jack up shots. He's only 21 and he's not ready for that. It's going to take him time to develop his shot and some go to moves on the perimeter. We've seen Siakam's crazy growth offensively over the last few years, but it didn't take him only 1.5 years to get there.

It won't take Barnes as long. Difference is Scottie is so much smarter as a player and has the strength to always create separation or bully mimatches down low. I have no doubts that Barnes will be a much better iso scorer same way Kawhi is better. Kawhi doesn't have amazing speed or explosiveness. But he is so strong and just creates separation at will with that strength by bumping you off. They both also have giant hands. Barnes will be a strength based scorer like Kawhi is. That strength is what makes Barnes better in the clutch over Siakam.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#84 » by HiJiNX » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:18 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:
lobosloboslobos wrote:I am fully aboard the Scottie train and want to see him running the offense more and more, but there's something to be said for not just handing him the reins from the get go. he clearly did not have the offensive drive to dominate when he came into the league, but by making him want more, making him crave that role by not giving it to him, and making him earn it by going out there and showing what he can do, well I support that approach. He is growing into his offense and his leadership and that is fine. having said that at this point he has paid a fair amount of dues and is figuring it out, and understanding what is needed of him, and he is clearly ready for a much bigger load in the second half of this season.

This is all people are saying. Barnes wasn’t ready before and his development probably would have been negatively impacted by giving him the keys at that time. However, Barnes is proving that he’s definitely ready for an increased role and can handle lead reps. In fact, I think the team is starting to move in this direction. Go look at whose hands the ball was in to start the 3rd Q against Portland yesterday—it was Barnes. That was very eye opening for me considering Fred was having a good game to that point and Siakam is Siakam. Yet it was Barnes who was the initiator to start the 3rd.

I just hope Fred and Siakam are ready to relinquish some possessions as Scottie continues to prove that our team is better off with him getting reps as the hub.


What does Scottie getting lead reps look like to you? I don't think he can consistently beat guys off the dribble, and that's even with him getting some of the worst defenders hidden on him. I don't think he's a significant post-up threat, and I don't think that an NBA team can effectively build an offense around a 6"8 post-up game. Entry passes eventually get jumped. Passing along the perimeter eventually leads to stagnation. He doesn't run pick and roll very much, and I think teams would just always go under. They need to be able to utilize him in ways that actually makes sense for him and everyone else. I just don't see what it looks like right now. There isn't a single offensive hub that drives as little as he does that isn't a big post-up C. imo it'll be so obvious when he gets the ball more because he'll be consistently shifting the defense with the ball in his hands. We're just a couple of weeks from Mason Plumlee standing 8 feet off him, and it's confusing to me (aside from wish fulfilment/tanking beliefs/Fred disgust) that fans think he's ready to take lead reps/

What does Barnes getting lead reps look like to me? It means putting the ball in his hands more in more situations as a decision maker. From the perimeter, in pnr, at the foul line, in DHOs, in the deep post, in the mid post, etc. Is he going to succeed every time? Of course not. Will he get flummoxed by exotic looks from defences? Of course he will. The point is to give him a chance to fail and learn from his mistakes so he can work toward reaching his immense ceiling. We have seen flashes literally since his first summer league and preseason that he can make plays from all of these areas. We’ve also seen him make mistakes in all of these areas. The difference now is those mistakes are far fewer and you can trust him to have the ball and see what he can do without it being disastrous.

There are far fewer possessions where Barnes has the ball, surveying and dribbling in one spot without knowing what to do with it. More often than not, if he has nothing these days he’s not jacking up a long jumper or dribbling into no man’s land and a turnover—instead he’s making a skip pass or passing out to the perimeter to relocate, establish post position or set a screen on ball or away. What these things tell me is that he’s reading the game better, well enough that he will make more good plays than bad ones. More importantly, what I’m seeing is that he’s learning and doing so quite rapidly.

What’s the alternative? We keep hoping Siakam develops a consistent off the dribble three ball, or that Fred can play top notch FVV basketball while remaining healthy for most of the season? The likelihood of those things happening, based on the evidence in front of us, is super low. And even if those things do happen, what is this team’s ceiling with Siakam and Fred as their top two guys? This team has a good chance of going really far if Scottie can be the guy you run your offence through with Siakam and FVV (if we keep him) as supporting pieces. How many times should we watch Siakam and Fred be good but not good enough before we make the transition to develop the most talented player on this team to take the role that he needs to inhabit in order for this team to be a contender? What is the threshold of “ready” to you? What does that look like?

And for clarity, giving Barnes the keys doesn’t mean that he’s the lead dog immediately as of today. What it means is a concerted effort to start grooming him for that role rather than letting him continue to operate as a connective piece to players who he is likely to pass up in terms of ability by next season.

As for Plumlee or anyone else sagging off of Barnes three weeks ago—how did that work out for them? How quickly has he adapted? I seem to remember Barnes putting Brook Lopez, a super strong guy and top defender in the league, into the rim for an entire quarter even though Lopez was sagging off. It doesn’t matter that Scottie doesn’t have a consistent jumper yet as he’s still finding success his way. How this is not apparent I have no idea. It’s like you and some others want Scottie to be a particular template of a guy who develops such and such skill before giving him a bigger role while ignoring that what he brings right now. And though that’s different than what you’d expect from a wing, it is more than enough for him to be effective playing the way he likes to play. Barnes can’t run the pnr or beat guys off the dribble so we ignore everything else he CAN do? Makes no sense to me. There’s more than one way to succeed at basketball. And maybe just maybe he develops those skills with more reps the way Fred appears to be doing this season. But you have to give him the leash to do it.


My question for you and some others is this: how many more times does Barnes need to look like the best player on the floor before we start grooming him to actually be that?

In not now, when?
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#85 » by HiJiNX » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:28 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Right now, Barnes is a very good connector who fills in the gaps offensively. Surrounding him with talent is the best way to utilize his strengths because he can make those around him even better. He's not the type of player where you clear out and let him attack in isolation Kawhi style.

I think the worst thing for his development would be to give him a 25-30 usage and let him jack up shots. He's only 21 and he's not ready for that. It's going to take him time to develop his shot and some go to moves on the perimeter. We've seen Siakam's crazy growth offensively over the last few years, but it didn't take him only 1.5 years to get there.

I think the misnomer is the idea that we’d be giving Barnes the ball to shoot it 20 times per game. That’s not the idea. The idea, in my opinion, is to give him the ball to make plays with it, not to be a 30 ppg scorer. Barnes probably will never be a big time scorer where he’s averaging more than 25 ppg but you don’t even want him to be that guy. You want him to dominate with his passing and intelligence while putting up points at crucial moments, which has been how has played the game since forever.

It’s not that Barnes should shoot it a bunch of times, it’s knowing that he can succeed at scoring when needed, and that if the defence tries to load up on him that he’s going to eviscerate them as they attempt to do that. Kind of like what Siakam was doing up until a couple weeks ago when he decided he’d rather be Kobe than Grant Hill.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#86 » by MoMan24 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:30 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:This is all people are saying. Barnes wasn’t ready before and his development probably would have been negatively impacted by giving him the keys at that time. However, Barnes is proving that he’s definitely ready for an increased role and can handle lead reps. In fact, I think the team is starting to move in this direction. Go look at whose hands the ball was in to start the 3rd Q against Portland yesterday—it was Barnes. That was very eye opening for me considering Fred was having a good game to that point and Siakam is Siakam. Yet it was Barnes who was the initiator to start the 3rd.

I just hope Fred and Siakam are ready to relinquish some possessions as Scottie continues to prove that our team is better off with him getting reps as the hub.


What does Scottie getting lead reps look like to you? I don't think he can consistently beat guys off the dribble, and that's even with him getting some of the worst defenders hidden on him. I don't think he's a significant post-up threat, and I don't think that an NBA team can effectively build an offense around a 6"8 post-up game. Entry passes eventually get jumped. Passing along the perimeter eventually leads to stagnation. He doesn't run pick and roll very much, and I think teams would just always go under. They need to be able to utilize him in ways that actually makes sense for him and everyone else. I just don't see what it looks like right now. There isn't a single offensive hub that drives as little as he does that isn't a big post-up C. imo it'll be so obvious when he gets the ball more because he'll be consistently shifting the defense with the ball in his hands. We're just a couple of weeks from Mason Plumlee standing 8 feet off him, and it's confusing to me (aside from wish fulfilment/tanking beliefs/Fred disgust) that fans think he's ready to take lead reps/

What does Barnes getting lead reps look like to me? It means putting the ball in his hands more in more situations as a decision maker. From the perimeter, in pnr, at the foul line, in DHOs, in the deep post, in the mid post, etc. Is he going to succeed every time? Of course not. Will he get flummoxed by exotic looks from defences? Of course he will. The point is to give him a chance to fail and learn from his mistakes so he can work toward reaching his immense ceiling. We have seen flashes literally since his first summer league and preseason that he can make plays from all of these areas. We’ve also seen him make mistakes in all of these areas. The difference now is those mistakes are far fewer and you can trust him to have the ball and see what he can do without it being disastrous.

There are far fewer possessions where Barnes has the ball, surveying and dribbling in one spot without knowing what to do with it. More often than not, if he has nothing these days he’s not jacking up a long jumper or dribbling into no man’s land and a turnover—instead he’s making a skip pass or passing out to the perimeter to relocate, establish post position or set a screen on ball or away. What these things tell me is that he’s reading the game better, well enough that he will make more good plays than bad ones. More importantly, what I’m seeing is that he’s learning and doing so quite rapidly.

What’s the alternative? We keep hoping Siakam develops a consistent off the dribble three ball, or that Fred can play top notch FVV basketball while remaining healthy for most of the season? The likelihood of those things happening, based on the evidence in front of us, is super low. And even if those things do happen, what is this team’s ceiling with Siakam and Fred as their top two guys? This team has a good chance of going really far if Scottie can be the guy you run your offence through with Siakam and FVV (if we keep him) as supporting pieces. How many times should we watch Siakam and Fred be good but not good enough before we make the transition to develop the most talented player on this team to take the role that he needs to inhabit in order for this team to be a contender? What is the threshold of “ready” to you? What does that look like?

And for clarity, giving Barnes the keys doesn’t mean that he’s the lead dog immediately as of today. What it means is a concerted effort to start grooming him for that role rather than letting him continue to operate as a connective piece to players who he is likely to pass up in terms of ability by next season.

As for Plumlee or anyone else sagging off of Barnes three weeks ago—how did that work out for them? How quickly has he adapted? I seem to remember Barnes putting Brook Lopez, a super strong guy and top defender in the league, into the rim for an entire quarter even though Lopez was sagging off. It doesn’t matter that Scottie doesn’t have a consistent jumper yet as he’s still finding success his way. How this is not apparent I have no idea. It’s like you and some others want Scottie to be a particular template of a guy who develops such and such skill before giving him a bigger role while ignoring that what he brings right now. And though that’s different than what you’d expect from a wing, it is more than enough for him to be effective playing the way he likes to play. Barnes can’t run the pnr or beat guys off the dribble so we ignore everything else he CAN do? Makes no sense to me. There’s more than one way to succeed at basketball. And maybe just maybe he develops those skills with more reps the way Fred appears to be doing this season. But you have to give him the leash to do it.


My question for you and some others is this: how many more times does Barnes need to look like the best player on the floor before we start grooming him to actually be that?

In not now, when?

Amen brother. Well said.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#87 » by OakleyDokely » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:32 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:Right now, Barnes is a very good connector who fills in the gaps offensively. Surrounding him with talent is the best way to utilize his strengths because he can make those around him even better. He's not the type of player where you clear out and let him attack in isolation Kawhi style.

I think the worst thing for his development would be to give him a 25-30 usage and let him jack up shots. He's only 21 and he's not ready for that. It's going to take him time to develop his shot and some go to moves on the perimeter. We've seen Siakam's crazy growth offensively over the last few years, but it didn't take him only 1.5 years to get there.

I think the misnomer is the idea that we’d be giving Barnes the ball to shoot it 20 times per game. That’s not the idea. The idea, in my opinion, is to give him the ball to make plays with it, not to be a 30 ppg scorer. Barnes probably will never be a big time scorer where he’s averaging more than 25 ppg but you don’t even want him to be that guy. You want him to dominate with his passing and intelligence while putting up points at crucial moments, which has been how has played the game since forever.

It’s not whether or not Barnes should shoot it a bunch of times, it’s knowing that he can succeed at scoring when needed, and that if the defence tries to load up on him that he’s going to eviscerate them as they attempt to do that. Kind of like what Siakam was doing up until a couple weeks ago when he decided he’d rather be Kobe than Grant Hill.


But I'd suggest that's already happening.

Over the last 15 games, only Siakam has more frontcourt touches per game than Barnes and it's close (42.5 to 39.9). VanVleet touches have dropped to 36, a clear notch below Siakam/Barnes. Barnes has become, along with Siakam, a dominant figure in the offense.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#88 » by Tha Cynic » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:52 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:So.... he has a jumper but it is not good. AKA - he does not have a jumper?


The point is he just needs the threat of a jumper and Barnes is not the the type of players who you're trying to compare him to. Can he get to a spot and score? Yes. Is that a threat? Yes. Can he shift defenses and attract doubles? Yes. Can he make passes and get his teammates open looks? Yes. Can he hit occasional jumpers? Yes. Can he hit jumpers with the shot clock winding down? Yes.

If he can do all that, then he can initiate an offense. There are numerous sophomores for example who are shooting terrible because their teams are letting them figure it out and learn. The great thing about Barnes is that he's not a guy who will take all the shots if they're bad shots.

So the argument is "we have no players with a TS% above league average, so we should promote the starter with the worst TS% to take on more offensive responsibility?


Yes.

You're talking about a bunch of players who have pretty similar poor TS% as a whole, and the whole "worst TS% of the bunch" does not matter considering even our veterans are around that same mark. We can't pick and choose when we want to use TS% in an argument. We either want to use it or we don't and this board loves using it. So here it is. The entire team is basically below league average. What they're doing now does not work.

We have a starter who had one bad month (November), is 21, has been coming on strong, and is clearly figuring out how to attack different defense as the season goes on. He's playing on a team that does not have a clear-cut go to option and the one who should be the go-to option based on conventional thinking (GTJ) isn't really given that opportunity and continues to be in trade rumours. The Raptors are also banking on Barnes developing into a great offensive and defensive player. This is the season to try Barnes as a more featured option in the offense when the team is clearly going nowhere.

Outside of Siakam, FVV/GTJ/Barnes/OG are pretty much 2a/2b/2c/2d. They are all within 2% of each other in usage. Pretty much because no one other than Siakam has more than 1 above average offensive skill and none of them deserve more usage than they get. GTJ/Barnes are like the opposites of each other. One does not know how to pass, the other to shoot. Barnes would be exposed pretty significantly if he was given the ball and expected to make plays happen every time down the floor. As long as he is as inefficient as he is, he cannot operate as a #1.

Granted, January has been a revelation. 18/7/6 on 59TS% is a fantastic line for a guy. It is reminiscent of where Siakam was on the championship team as a shared 2a/2b option type guy who was a 17/7/3 on 63TS% guy.

Scottie's time is coming - but the worst thing we can do is throw him into situations that set him up for failure. It is not something this franchise has ever done and it has worked out well, so I don't know why they would change it with Scottie.


I think we all know that Scottie's time is coming. But the point is that time is now. What is it that we're trying to accomplish by continuing to play FVV/Siakam ball? We saw it fail in the playoffs and we have seen how the players outside of those two play out of rhythm whenever we play that style. This team needs to look forward to next year at this stage and it starts with how they run their offense. What exactly are we waiting for?

I think we can all agree that no one on the team makes the others on the team better than Barnes and Siakam. Siakam has taken on more of a scorer mentality and Barnes is clearly fine with being a guy who gets his teammates involved, and he's great at it. So, why would you not run the offense through him and give him a higher usage? It's in the best interest of everyone to put the ball in Barnes' hands to actually make decisions, whether to shoot or pass than anyone else on the team right now.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#89 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:04 pm

The only question I'd have is...why'd it take 50 games to figure out something this obvious.

Like, when the "franchise" player gets less touches than supporting players. That's got to fall on somebody.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#90 » by ChillPill » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:07 pm

Yeah, I dunno... To me Scottie gets plenty of opportunity and he is developing just fine.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#91 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:13 pm

HiJiNX wrote:What does Barnes getting lead reps look like to me? It means putting the ball in his hands more in more situations as a decision maker. From the perimeter, in pnr, at the foul line, in DHOs, in the deep post, in the mid post, etc. Is he going to succeed every time? Of course not. Will he get flummoxed by exotic looks from defences? Of course he will. The point is to give him a chance to fail and learn from his mistakes so he can work toward reaching his immense ceiling. We have seen flashes literally since his first summer league and preseason that he can make plays from all of these areas. We’ve also seen him make mistakes in all of these areas. The difference now is those mistakes are far fewer and you can trust him to have the ball and see what he can do without it being disastrous.


What do you think he will learn? He doesn't have an IQ issue. He has a skill issue. I've given all the stats before, but inefficient from the elbow, inefficient on post-ups, inefficient as a PnR ballhandler, inefficient as a pull up shooter, inefficient in isolation. You just basically said give him more of everything that's established that he's not very good at, so yeah, we should expect him to look bad and as a result the offense will look worse.

What’s the alternative? We keep hoping Siakam develops a consistent off the dribble three ball, or that Fred can play top notch FVV basketball while remaining healthy for most of the season? The likelihood of those things happening, based on the evidence in front of us, is super low. And even if those things do happen, what is this team’s ceiling with Siakam and Fred as their top two guys? This team has a good chance of going really far if Scottie can be the guy you run your offence through with Siakam and FVV (if we keep him) as supporting pieces. How many times should we watch Siakam and Fred be good but not good enough before we make the transition to develop the most talented player on this team to take the role that he needs to inhabit in order for this team to be a contender? What is the threshold of “ready” to you? What does that look like?


It looks like a better player taking over.

My question for you and some others is this: how many more times does Barnes need to look like the best player on the floor before we start grooming him to actually be that?

In not now, when?


He is being groomed to be that player. We just disagree on what that looks like. But to start he'll need to average more drives than Kelly Oubre and he'll have to score more efficiently, which is already starting to happen. But really when he starts getting defensive attention that makes it easier for the actual best players is when the team should make that call. When the opposition can't risk a bad defensive player being caught on him is another good tell.

I appreciate the response. Disagree with most of it.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#92 » by Psubs » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:17 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The only question I'd have is...why'd it take 50 games to figure out something this obvious.

Like, when the "franchise" player gets less touches than supporting players. That's got to fall on somebody.


Changing of the guard is not quick nor pretty.

I liked that he had 7 assists and ZERO turnovers last game.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#93 » by ItsDanger » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:20 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The only question I'd have is...why'd it take 50 games to figure out something this obvious.

Like, when the "franchise" player gets less touches than supporting players. That's got to fall on somebody.

Let me refer you to the pecking order.

It falls on management to change the roster for the coach. They should have a longer term view than Nurse.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#94 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:28 pm

Psubs wrote:Changing of the guard is not quick nor pretty.

I liked that he had 7 assists and ZERO turnovers last game.

I agree, but it's the self inflicted damage that hurts the most. Like Scotty with Trent's shots is an easy 19-20ppg. This year.


ItsDanger wrote:Let me refer you to the pecking order.

It falls on management to change the roster for the coach. They should have a longer term view than Nurse.

It's hard to get a coach that can win at that level. If we shed him, we'd just have to replace eventually.

The Klutch cabal doesn't look like a good thing.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#95 » by Badonkadonk » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:33 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The only question I'd have is...why'd it take 50 games to figure out something this obvious.

Like, when the "franchise" player gets less touches than supporting players. That's got to fall on somebody.

I've seen various forms of this take, it's really strange to me.

Scottie is clearly developing his skillset. He was nowhere near ready to initiate half-court earlier in the season and still has a lot growth in that area. He's excelled recently as a connector and in a quasi-Gasol role near the top of the key, when he's not being aggressive in terms of scoring (which Nurse has consistently encouraged him to do btw).

TL;DR, this is what growth looks like, he's going to be great. Honestly, he is WAY further behind defensively, which is the opposite of what I expected with him coming out of FSU.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#96 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:39 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The only question I'd have is...why'd it take 50 games to figure out something this obvious.

Like, when the "franchise" player gets less touches than supporting players. That's got to fall on somebody.

I've seen various forms of this take, it's really strange to me.

Scottie is clearly developing his skillset. He was nowhere near ready to initiate half-court earlier in the season and still has a lot growth in that area. He's excelled recently as a connector and in a quasi-Gasol role near the top of the key, when he's not being aggressive in terms of scoring (which Nurse has consistently encouraged him to do btw).

TL;DR, this is what growth looks like, he's going to be great. Honestly, he is WAY further behind defensively, which is the opposite of what I expected with him coming out of FSU.

It's not my take, it's theirs. That's what makes this so perplexing.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#97 » by Badonkadonk » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:41 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The only question I'd have is...why'd it take 50 games to figure out something this obvious.

Like, when the "franchise" player gets less touches than supporting players. That's got to fall on somebody.

I've seen various forms of this take, it's really strange to me.

Scottie is clearly developing his skillset. He was nowhere near ready to initiate half-court earlier in the season and still has a lot growth in that area. He's excelled recently as a connector and in a quasi-Gasol role near the top of the key, when he's not being aggressive in terms of scoring (which Nurse has consistently encouraged him to do btw).

TL;DR, this is what growth looks like, he's going to be great. Honestly, he is WAY further behind defensively, which is the opposite of what I expected with him coming out of FSU.

It's not my take, it's theirs. That's what makes this so perplexing.

Ah my bad
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#98 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:45 pm

35 front court touches. If you adjust for time on the court he has the same front court touches as Fred and is less than Siakam. He gets to touch the ball a lot.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#99 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:46 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:I've seen various forms of this take, it's really strange to me.

Scottie is clearly developing his skillset. He was nowhere near ready to initiate half-court earlier in the season and still has a lot growth in that area. He's excelled recently as a connector and in a quasi-Gasol role near the top of the key, when he's not being aggressive in terms of scoring (which Nurse has consistently encouraged him to do btw).

TL;DR, this is what growth looks like, he's going to be great. Honestly, he is WAY further behind defensively, which is the opposite of what I expected with him coming out of FSU.

It's not my take, it's theirs. That's what makes this so perplexing.

Ah my bad

Like, it's Scotty's team. They've already "anointed" him. That's why him taking the back seat this season makes no sense.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5 

Post#100 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:49 pm

They wouldn't trade him for Durant. People need to relax on this kid or he really will disappoint you.

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