Knicks trade for Josh Hart

[E-Balla]

yeah but if we don't pick a direction we kinda stay middling. Either break it up and tank or go for a star. The middle ground very rarely wins down the road outside of making us competitive. The only person that really wins is Dolan because he can stay raising ticket prices with the knicks never having any championship asperations.

Statistically speaking that's not true. Look at the Pels, they were middling when they got Zion and were able to flip the switch to contention. The Grizzlies were the same with Ja. The Nets were middling when they went all out for KD and Kyrie. Clippers were middling when they got Kawhi and PG13. The Raptors were middling when they got Kawhi.

I think none of the big deals that have happened recently have been worth it. I'm happy they stayed firm and didn't trade away everything for Mitchell for example. He's great but does he bring us a ring? Doubt it. If we're going all out like that the only way it's worth it is if the player will be an MVP level guy for at least 3 years for us. That's also why I want to pass on KD, no longevity there. You think we can get a team together midseason and contend with one off-season for everyone to gel before KD starts aging more?

ehh...Memphis and NOP were still lottery teams that were 30 win teams that got lucky in the lottery to jump start themselves into contention. We are building a 40ish type win team that will never be in the lottery to get lucky.

We are still basically banking on trading for a superstar...because we have played ourselves out of drafting a difference maker.

Most likely the end result here is that Hart plays solidly for us...he opts out...we resign him to a 16ish MM deal for a 3-4 years moving forward.

Then our roster is capped out with Brunson/Randle/RJ/Hart/Mitch making a lot of money. Then we will probably extend IQ too. Our picks will continue to lose value since they will be outside of the lottery so I am still very concerned this regime has a clear direction.

Like getting hart in isolation isn't a bad move. But still there is a roster glut of good but not great players on this team. I really need to see a follow up deal of some sorts because trading for a decent rotational player without a rotational player going out doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Obi value will continue to depreciate where we probably end up trading him for a couple 2nds in the offseason or something like that.

Just like they did with Cam...this regime sure knows how to tank players values.

With guys like Cam and Obi they were never that good. We don't tank their value, we're the only teams that valued them highly in the first place.

And the picks only lose value if you don't get good players with it or trade down into more. Either way y'all are rushing it. None of the guys that were available to trade for were good enough to contend. It's worth waiting a year or two for that kind of player to become available. It can go like Toronto (who waited at least 6 or so years for Kawhi), it can go like Houston (who waited 3 years for Harden), it can go like the Clippers (who waited 2/3 years for Kawhi and PG), it can go like the Joe Johnson Hawks and we never get that guy. Either way it's a long term plan and a proven one at least if we do it right.

[KnicksNext]

yeah but if we don't pick a direction we kinda stay middling. Either break it up and tank or go for a star. The middle ground very rarely wins down the road outside of making us competitive. The only person that really wins is Dolan because he can stay raising ticket prices with the knicks never having any championship asperations.

Statistically speaking that's not true. Look at the Pels, they were middling when they got Zion and were able to flip the switch to contention. The Grizzlies were the same with Ja. The Nets were middling when they went all out for KD and Kyrie. Clippers were middling when they got Kawhi and PG13. The Raptors were middling when they got Kawhi.

I think none of the big deals that have happened recently have been worth it. I'm happy they stayed firm and didn't trade away everything for Mitchell for example. He's great but does he bring us a ring? Doubt it. If we're going all out like that the only way it's worth it is if the player will be an MVP level guy for at least 3 years for us. That's also why I want to pass on KD, no longevity there. You think we can get a team together midseason and contend with one off-season for everyone to gel before KD starts aging more?

ehh...Memphis and NOP were still lottery teams that were 30 win teams that got lucky in the lottery to jump start themselves into contention. We are building a 40ish type win team that will never be in the lottery to get lucky.

We are still basically banking on trading for a superstar...because we have played ourselves out of drafting a difference maker.

Most likely the end result here is that Hart plays solidly for us...he opts out...we resign him to a 16ish MM deal for a 3-4 years moving forward.

Then our roster is capped out with Brunson/Randle/RJ/Hart/Mitch making a lot of money. Then we will probably extend IQ too. Our picks will continue to lose value since they will be outside of the lottery so I am still very concerned this regime has a clear direction.

Like getting hart in isolation isn't a bad move. But still there is a roster glut of good but not great players on this team. I really need to see a follow up deal of some sorts because trading for a decent rotational player without a rotational player going out doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Obi value will continue to depreciate where we probably end up trading him for a couple 2nds in the offseason or something like that.

Just like they did with Cam...this regime sure knows how to tank players values.

Messed up the last post..


Short and sweet breakdown, thanks Mpharris. This is what we're looking at, so you need to decide if that's good or not..

[E-Balla]

yeah but if we don't pick a direction we kinda stay middling. Either break it up and tank or go for a star. The middle ground very rarely wins down the road outside of making us competitive. The only person that really wins is Dolan because he can stay raising ticket prices with the knicks never having any championship asperations.

Statistically speaking that's not true. Look at the Pels, they were middling when they got Zion and were able to flip the switch to contention. The Grizzlies were the same with Ja. The Nets were middling when they went all out for KD and Kyrie. Clippers were middling when they got Kawhi and PG13. The Raptors were middling when they got Kawhi.

I think none of the big deals that have happened recently have been worth it. I'm happy they stayed firm and didn't trade away everything for Mitchell for example. He's great but does he bring us a ring? Doubt it. If we're going all out like that the only way it's worth it is if the player will be an MVP level guy for at least 3 years for us. That's also why I want to pass on KD, no longevity there. You think we can get a team together midseason and contend with one off-season for everyone to gel before KD starts aging more?

So we're either relying on winning the lottery or getting an elite free agent? Thats alotta luck

Elite free agent? You mean trade for a disgruntled star. Keeping course for 2 years and hoping our guy comes along is worth doing. For all we know Embiid is asking out in 2 years.

[KnicksNext]

You guys should know by now this FO doesn't give a flying f*ck about the draft.

You wasted months and months in the draft thread (again) talking about all the players and possibilities to (move up? lol). With the Dallas pick losing value (most likely), we'll MAYBE add another rookie with like the 23rd pick or something. Another role player (if we're lucky).

They’ll probably trade that Dallas pick too. I haven’t wasted my time thinking much about the draft the past couple years. Turned out to be a wise decision!

I'm with you, Rob! And no one loves the draft more than I do. It sucks, man. I used to get so pumped year after year around draft time. Hurts me that I can't even enjoy dreaming about the franchise player we'll never get. But just like you I avoided the talk this year for the most part, knowing this FO hates the draft probably more than any other FO out there.

[KnicksNext]

This move is the FO/Thibs saying we're a lot 'closer' to being in the top echelon than we really are. This is a move that a team who only needs to make one or two more small to mid moves to get them in contention make. That's not us, but whatever.

I do like Hart in a vacuum, but I'm sick and tired of punting in the draft every year. I mean, wtf man? Is there a FO out there that hates drafting players more than this FO??

[SelbyCobra]

Hart and Brunson being tight is a big factor in this to me. We've seen how perfectly Brunson can play the team game while also being the clear leader, and that effect should be extra strong with an old friend who is also a dog, like Hart.

[Capn'O]

With guys like Cam and Obi they were never that good. We don't tank their value, we're the only teams that valued them highly in the first place.

A little louder for those in the back!

I still like Obi a bit. He's a good kid, yknow? He's improved his shot and still a threat to leak out. Very strong hairline too. But he's a rotation player at best.

[Fury]

This move is the FO/Thibs saying we're a lot 'closer' to being in the top echelon than we really are. This is a move that a team who only needs to make one or two more small to mid moves to get them in contention make. That's not us, but whatever.

I do like Hart in a vacuum, but I'm sick and tired of punting in the draft every year. I mean, wtf man? Is there a FO out there that hates drafting players more than this FO??

The LA Rams

[LookToShoot]

Josh Hart move is admitting they made a mistake extending RJ. Overpaying for average talent only guarantees you'll be an average team.

[ophdog]

The one thing that helps us is the nets might drop fast in standings at least. less likely the play in

[KnixinSix]

No idea how reliable but some potential nuggets on OG

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-trade-deadline-intel-aftermath-kevin-durant-trade?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=MattMoorehttps://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-trade-deadline-intel-aftermath-kevin-durant-trade?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=MattMoore

- says that the Grizzlies, Pelicans and Knicks all have significant offers on the table for Anunoby

- the Bulls are willing to listen on LaVine

- there's debate internally as to whether or not to include Quickley in any trade talks including Anunoby

[nykgeneralmanager]

This move is the FO/Thibs saying we're a lot 'closer' to being in the top echelon than we really are. This is a move that a team who only needs to make one or two more small to mid moves to get them in contention make. That's not us, but whatever.

I do like Hart in a vacuum, but I'm sick and tired of punting in the draft every year. I mean, wtf man? Is there a FO out there that hates drafting players more than this FO??

This is an incredibly odd take considering 5 of the team's 9 man rotation consists of players drafted by the front office in only 3 years.

They punted literally one draft pick.

[Polk377]

This move is the FO/Thibs saying we're a lot 'closer' to being in the top echelon than we really are. This is a move that a team who only needs to make one or two more small to mid moves to get them in contention make. That's not us, but whatever.

I do like Hart in a vacuum, but I'm sick and tired of punting in the draft every year. I mean, wtf man? Is there a FO out there that hates drafting players more than this FO??

We really aren't that far away. 6th in offensive rating, 10th in Net Rating. We have 2 guys that can carry the load on a night to night basis putting up all star level play and a 3rd guy who can get hot for stretches. They need complimentary pieces better than what we have now but that is doable. Hart is a good add that helps. Knicks can and have competed hard against all teams this season. If the Heat could make the finals in 2020 with that team, I don't see why the Knicks wouldn't be able to make a push with this team.

[KnicksGadfly]

We're gonna have to re-sign this guy, yea?

[cgmw]

Quintessential Knicks — Trade out of the first round during Wemborama. Trade for a veteran on a 1 year contract to play ahead of your last first round pick.

Same playbook as it ever was.

Bonus Knicks points: while not a PF, Leon’s latest veteran can’t shoot.

Huh? if its in the lottery we are keeping the pick fyi

Yeah I know. Just saying. To me it's echoes of Trey Burke impersonating Iverson to win meaningless games. Echoes of Mike Miller coaching his ass off to squeeze out wins after Fizdale. Thibs will grind every single regular season win possible out of this group just for the joy of losing in the 1st round and possibly losing Hart for nothing.

I get it, and I'll root for it. But it's the same playbook as it ever was, which tells me it will end the same as it always does.

In fairness, Hart isn't a PF. But like so many other Knick veteran FA/trade targets, he can't shoot. Anyway, let's get drunk and throw a tickertape parade for two home playoff games and the Dallas FRP in '23.

[KnicksNext]

Team tank down bad today

Team Draft crushed again and sitting under 500 pounds of rubble. And never getting out. That kind of includes me. It's really weird rooting for a team that isn't interested in the draft. Really f*cking weird

[DowNY]

Josh Hart move is admitting they made a mistake extending RJ. Overpaying for average talent only guarantees you'll be an average team.

No?
They’re replacing Cam. A player they acquired last year to play with or spell RJ.

[Ewings2ndcousin]

Hart and Brunson being tight is a big factor in this to me. We've seen how perfectly Brunson can play the team game while also being the clear leader, and that effect should be extra strong with an old friend who is also a dog, like Hart.

Don't sleep on this guys. If any of you saw them together in college, you know we are in for a treat real soon. This trade was big for us. No doubt!

[DaGawd]

The one thing that helps us is the nets might drop fast in standings at least. less likely the play in

ehhh they still have a really solid team. they should make the playoffs with that roster still

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I like Hart, but let's make 1 thing perfectly clear, trading out of the draft is something you do if you're in the middle of a dynasty and need to restock the roster with vets, it's not something you do when you're a 4-5 seed. The glut of picks we have in this draft could have been consolidated to move up and draft someone potentially better than Hart, it's just mismanagement all around, just look look at the wings drafted after we traded our 11th pic - Eason,Griffin and Jalen Williams, and the bigs taken after that are Duren, Kessler and Williams all of them showing very high promise.

You cannot keep punting on the draft and picks, the league is telling you first rounders are probably the most valuable asset outside of superstars, and we're giving them away like candy. Hinkie was right, outside of stars the highest value players are those on rookie deals, as good as Hart is, he's due for a new contract soon and those 3 wings are already playing him even, while making a fraction of what he makes. Stop excusing these morons for placating Thibodeau, you can like Hart and see how stupid the series of moves are that led us to getting him.