theBigLip wrote:Going crazy
looking at mock drafts. even crazier is before the lottery. But 2nd rounders and non lottery picks are not changing. Looking at guys in the 20-30 range and thinking if we throw in a 2nd plus something (Bogdonovich, Burks, Bagley?), we could move into the late first round. Not sure what the trade is, but then I starting asking myself if that's even what we want to do.
Bojan plus Burks and #31 *might* fetch a first in the late teens, but I think they're more valuable to the Pistons than that. They're veteran scorers and elite floor spacers who'll play a valuable offensive role alongside the team's youth and contribute some leadership to boot.
Bagley is a negative trade asset, full stop. He's a limited scorer, weak rebounder, horrible defender, and reclamation project who just finished another injury-filled, uninspiring season and has two fully guaranteed years remaining at eight figures apiece.
Manocad wrote:Don't undersell the tanking effect. If the players know the goal is to tank they're likely not going to be out there busting ass 110% on defense; that will be the first thing they'll lighten up on. Get your points and keep your stats looking respectable but since the goal is to tank, take it easy on the defensive effort.
But guys like Ivey and Bagley who certainly have the athletic ability to play good defense but get called out for bad defense? Maybe they weren't trying to play high level defense given the goal is to tank. Plus Ivey is a rookie to boot, so there's that.
It's contradiction. You can't expect a tank but also expect every player to perform at their own personal high level both offensively AND defensively all the time. That WINS games.
Players don't go out and tank. Ivey definitely tried his hardest, and I don't think Bagley did any less. The Pistons lost because they had a bad roster and bad coaching. Down the stretch, the roster got even worse and the games got correspondingly uglier.
As for the defense, Ivey struggled as a rookie and Bagley is just straight bad and always has been. He was awful at Duke, and he's been awful in the NBA. He just doesn't seem to have the acumen to make the lightning-fast reads and decisions required to play defense in a very fast game against the best players in the world. That's particularly impactful when he plays center, at which he is a complete and utter disaster on defense, but it's also very evident when he's defending on the perimeter; if he's forced to make a series of switches or rotations, it's very likely that he'll eventually screw up and surrender an easy basket to the opposition.
vege wrote:Miami Out: Duncan Robinson / Nikola Jovic / #18
Miami In: John Collins / #31 / future 2nds from Detroit
They get an upgrade in a position of need
Atlanta Out: John Collins
Atlanta In: Marvin Bagley / Nikola Jovic
they get out of the LT
Detroit Out: Marvin Bagley / #31 / future 2nds
Detroit In: Duncan Robinson / #18
We get #18 for #31 and for taking on Robinson's extra year and extra money. I am not sure if future 2nds are needed but I added them just in case.
The Heat aren't really getting a big upgrade there. Collins is consistently unreliable on one end or the other, he's a poor fit next to Bam, and he can be penciled in with a fair degree of accuracy to miss a solid 20 games per season. Caleb Martin has been surprisingly good, and he's a much better fit. I doubt the Heat would care to lose both Jovic and #18 for that.
But if he is, and since he seems to be the odd man out now that we have Wiseman, maybe Bagley + 2nd and get into the high 20s? I'm guessing Hayes is perceived as negative, so not sure what we get without adding the extra picks as you mentioned.
