’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

Replacing Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/KG make Celtics

Worse
5
24%
Better
13
62%
Same
3
14%
 
Total votes: 21

Matt15
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,544
And1: 550
Joined: Aug 27, 2008

’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#1 » by Matt15 » Mon May 15, 2023 11:11 pm

Are the Celtics better, the same or worse with ’08 Pierce/KG?

Line-Up
G-Marcus Smart
G-Derrick White
F-Paul Pierce(’08)
F-Kevin Garnett(’08)
C-Al Horford
No-more-rings
Head Coach
Posts: 7,104
And1: 3,912
Joined: Oct 04, 2018

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#2 » by No-more-rings » Mon May 15, 2023 11:16 pm

They’re obviously better, I don’t know if they’d be favored over LA or Denver though.
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 19,561
And1: 16,035
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#3 » by GSP » Mon May 15, 2023 11:38 pm

No-more-rings wrote:They’re obviously better, I don’t know if they’d be favored over LA or Denver though.


I mean we're favored to win the title and have been since Bucks got eliminated...........Wed have Hca and would be the odds favorites VS either
No-more-rings
Head Coach
Posts: 7,104
And1: 3,912
Joined: Oct 04, 2018

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#4 » by No-more-rings » Mon May 15, 2023 11:42 pm

GSP wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:They’re obviously better, I don’t know if they’d be favored over LA or Denver though.


I mean we're favored to win the title and have been since Bucks got eliminated...........Wed have Hca and would be the odds favorites VS either

According to who?
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 19,561
And1: 16,035
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#5 » by GSP » Mon May 15, 2023 11:46 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
GSP wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:They’re obviously better, I don’t know if they’d be favored over LA or Denver though.


I mean we're favored to win the title and have been since Bucks got eliminated...........Wed have Hca and would be the odds favorites VS either

According to who?


The actual bookmakers?
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 21,854
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#6 » by Colbinii » Mon May 15, 2023 11:58 pm

GSP wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:They’re obviously better, I don’t know if they’d be favored over LA or Denver though.


I mean we're favored to win the title and have been since Bucks got eliminated...........Wed have Hca and would be the odds favorites VS either


Part of the reason you are favored though is because you have a signficiantly higher chance of beating Miami than either Denver/LAL have of beating themselves.

For example, these could be Boston's chances in each series, not be favored in the Finals yet still be the betting favorite because that is how math works.

Bos 75/Mia 25
Den 60/LAL 40
Bos 45/Den 55
Bos 50/LAL 50
Cricket23
Pro Prospect
Posts: 855
And1: 607
Joined: Feb 21, 2022

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#7 » by Cricket23 » Tue May 16, 2023 12:26 am

Didn't Boston have better odds than Denver or LA before the playoffs even started, when it was assumed they'd have to go through Milwaukee?
FuShengTHEGreat
Analyst
Posts: 3,066
And1: 1,439
Joined: Jan 02, 2010

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#8 » by FuShengTHEGreat » Tue May 16, 2023 12:43 am

Obviously worse as far as I'm concerned.

Right from the get go that duo could barely beat arguably the worst 8th seeded team in NBA history. I don't even think they beat Philadelphia.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 21,854
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#9 » by Colbinii » Tue May 16, 2023 2:05 am

Cricket23 wrote:Didn't Boston have better odds than Denver or LA before the playoffs even started, when it was assumed they'd have to go through Milwaukee?


Yup.

Milwaukee Bucks +265
Boston Celtics +310
Phoenix Suns +425
Golden State Warriors +950
Philadelphia 76ers +1000
Denver Nuggets +1100
Los Angeles Lakers +1600
Memphis Grizzlies +2000
Cleveland Cavaliers +4500
Los Angeles Clippers +5000
Sacramento Kings +8000
New York Knicks +12000
Atlanta Hawks +25000
Miami Heat +30000
No-more-rings
Head Coach
Posts: 7,104
And1: 3,912
Joined: Oct 04, 2018

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#10 » by No-more-rings » Tue May 16, 2023 12:09 pm

GSP wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
GSP wrote:
I mean we're favored to win the title and have been since Bucks got eliminated...........Wed have Hca and would be the odds favorites VS either

According to who?


The actual bookmakers?

So you just look at betting odds to determine who will win? You probably thought Celts were “odds on favorites” last year too once Milwaukee, the Lakers and Denver were eliminated.

Celtics won’t be favored once the finals roll around and odds re-adjust. Denver and LA are just better teams.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 21,854
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#11 » by Colbinii » Tue May 16, 2023 12:45 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
GSP wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:According to who?


The actual bookmakers?

So you just look at betting odds to determine who will win? You probably thought Celts were “odds on favorites” last year too once Milwaukee, the Lakers and Denver were eliminated.

Celtics won’t be favored once the finals roll around and odds re-adjust. Denver and LA are just better teams.


Correct, most people don't understand how odds and betting favorites work.

The Celtics are favored to win against Miami 80/20. That is why they have the best odds to win the Finals.
User avatar
cupcakesnake
Senior Mod- WNBA
Senior Mod- WNBA
Posts: 15,332
And1: 31,611
Joined: Jul 21, 2016
 

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#12 » by cupcakesnake » Tue May 16, 2023 1:27 pm

Defensively we're talking about a nightmare for opponents. A Horford/Garnett/Time Lord big rotation is insane and allows them to play any kind of scheme.

Offensively it's interesting. They're losing some raw ppg here but I think this roster would be more offensively flexible with KG and Horford both able to operate as spacers and passers. Brogdon gets to come in a run pick & roll with KG. Pierce's physical strength makes him a slightly more resilient scorer than Brown or Tatum, and I like his playmaking more. Pierce is slower than these guys so I think they lose some mobility on the wing. They'll be playing a lot more 3-guard lineups whenever Pierce is on the bench so I think the lineup flexibility is worse.
"Being in my home. I was watching pokemon for 5 hours."

Co-hosting with Harry Garris at The Underhand Freethrow Podcast
dygaction
General Manager
Posts: 7,621
And1: 4,913
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
 

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#13 » by dygaction » Wed May 17, 2023 7:16 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:Defensively we're talking about a nightmare for opponents. A Horford/Garnett/Time Lord big rotation is insane and allows them to play any kind of scheme.

Offensively it's interesting. They're losing some raw ppg here but I think this roster would be more offensively flexible with KG and Horford both able to operate as spacers and passers. Brogdon gets to come in a run pick & roll with KG. Pierce's physical strength makes him a slightly more resilient scorer than Brown or Tatum, and I like his playmaking more. Pierce is slower than these guys so I think they lose some mobility on the wing. They'll be playing a lot more 3-guard lineups whenever Pierce is on the bench so I think the lineup flexibility is worse.


I don't like Tatum and I know the scoring is inflated, but to say just losing some raw ppg is over underestimating him. Tatum can win you games single handedly by the raw ppg. He has already had 7 playoffs games with 36+ (2x 50+ and 2x 40+) at age of 25, while KG's best was 35p, once.
User avatar
cupcakesnake
Senior Mod- WNBA
Senior Mod- WNBA
Posts: 15,332
And1: 31,611
Joined: Jul 21, 2016
 

Re: ’23 Celtics- Replace Brown/Tatum w/ ’08 Pierce/Garnett 

Post#14 » by cupcakesnake » Wed May 17, 2023 8:54 pm

dygaction wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:Defensively we're talking about a nightmare for opponents. A Horford/Garnett/Time Lord big rotation is insane and allows them to play any kind of scheme.

Offensively it's interesting. They're losing some raw ppg here but I think this roster would be more offensively flexible with KG and Horford both able to operate as spacers and passers. Brogdon gets to come in a run pick & roll with KG. Pierce's physical strength makes him a slightly more resilient scorer than Brown or Tatum, and I like his playmaking more. Pierce is slower than these guys so I think they lose some mobility on the wing. They'll be playing a lot more 3-guard lineups whenever Pierce is on the bench so I think the lineup flexibility is worse.


I don't like Tatum and I know the scoring is inflated, but to say just losing some raw ppg is over underestimating him. Tatum can win you games single handedly by the raw ppg. He has already had 7 playoffs games with 36+ (2x 50+ and 2x 40+) at age of 25, while KG's best was 35p, once.


I'm not comparing Tatum and KG's scoring though. We're talking about 4 players. Pierce is the scorer I'd compare Tatum to.
Pierce (first 6 years): 31.8 per 100 on +3 rTS%
Tatum (first 6 years): 32.4 per 100 on +1 rTS%
These are their regular season numbers.

Pierce also had 7 playoff games of 36+ (3x 40+). It may seem disingenuous to compare a 6th-year player to a guy who played 19 seasons, but their careers are super different. Tatum has been on a decent playoff team every year of his career, where Paul Pierce played on mediocre rosters until he turned 30. Over the first 6 years of their careers, Tatum has played more than twice as many playoff games (87 vs. 30).

Jaylen Brown is pretty similar to KG in terms of just scoring. But I can't see an argument for Jaylen Brown bringing more offensive value overall.
"Being in my home. I was watching pokemon for 5 hours."

Co-hosting with Harry Garris at The Underhand Freethrow Podcast

Return to Player Comparisons