Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys

[CptCrunch]

Josh Jackass would still be in the league if he wasn't a dumbass. These kids have their heads screwed on straight.

Based on what? Your feels? Can you give us a head screwed on right rating for the entire lotto

Did you watch the interview with them during the lotto? They are both incredibly well spoken for their age.

So feels, got it.

[Big J]

Based on what? Your feels? Can you give us a head screwed on right rating for the entire lotto

Did you watch the interview with them during the lotto? They are both incredibly well spoken for their age.

So feels, got it.

There is a ton of stuff out there about how hard these kids work, so there's that. They also have never been in trouble with the law.

[CptCrunch]

Did you watch the interview with them during the lotto? They are both incredibly well spoken for their age.

So feels, got it.

There is a ton of stuff out there about how hard these kids work, so there's that. They also have never been in trouble with the law.

All that hard work, how much it did it go into shooting?

Does Amen work harder than Whitmore? Miller? Give me something here, a hard work index of some sort.

Unless you can pony up, you are just pulling feels out of nowhere to say it polititely. Every NBA prospect is a smart, coachable, hard worker, and humble until they aren't.

[mattao313]

Josh Jackass would still be in the league if he wasn't a dumbass. These kids have their heads screwed on straight.

Based on what? Your feels? Can you give us a head screwed on right rating for the entire lotto

Did you watch the interview with them during the lotto? They are both incredibly well spoken for their age.

Seems like your really high on the Thompsons. Where do you rank them? Would you take them over scoot and Miller?

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[BlazersBroncos]

The shooting is a true worry. I generally give a guy some hope for a 3PT development if they have a nice FT% - Leonard Miller for example is at 79% despite 31% 3PT, Scoot at 75% despite 32% 3PT.

But the Thompson kids are in the mid 60% range. Even Giddey was at 69%.

Those elite first steps are not going to be nearly as useful if neither can shoot, defender will just sag off and allow more room to react when they initiate a first step.

There is so much to like about these guys but your really gambling on someone becoming a decent shooter when their shot measurables are in a range that makes it far from a sure thing.

I think Amen has the best natural point abilities, court vision and first step in the draft, and I still worry that all that is moot if he shoots like Livingston.

[Big J]

So feels, got it.

There is a ton of stuff out there about how hard these kids work, so there's that. They also have never been in trouble with the law.

All that hard work, how much it did it go into shooting?

Does Amen work harder than Whitmore? Miller? Give me something here, a hard work index of some sort.

Unless you can pony up, you are just pulling feels out of nowhere to say it polititely. Every NBA prospect is a smart, coachable, hard worker, and humble until they aren't.

Riiiight, because Josh Jackson was so smart and humble when he vandalized and harassed his teammates ex girlfriend at Kansas and got charged for it.

[Big J]

Based on what? Your feels? Can you give us a head screwed on right rating for the entire lotto

Did you watch the interview with them during the lotto? They are both incredibly well spoken for their age.

Seems like your really high on the Thompsons. Where do you rank them? Would you take them over scoot and Miller?

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Yea, I'd take them 2 & 3. I like Miller a lot, but he doesn't have the same dog in him as the twins.

[clyde21]

I think Amen has the best natural point abilities draft

no, that's Scoot and AB by a considerable margin, and JHS 3rd

[The Moose]

I have Amen over Ausar as prospects still.

To my eye, whenever I watched full OTE games , Amen’s passing was definitely on a different level compared to Ausar. The numbers are the same but the ability to make reads and process plays at elite speed seemed much higher for Amen.

And I’m not sure how to quantify this, but Ausar seemed to benefit from playing with Amen far more than Amen benefitted from playing with Ausar.

Ausar really struggled in the half court as a scorer from anywhere, he was a zero level scorer. He shot 40% on layups in the half court , and had half the volume of Amen who made 50% of his. Amen had almost 2 times as many dunks in the half court. Overall Ausar was 51% at the rim in the half court, which is terrible considering his athletic gifts and the weak rim presence in the OTE.

Ultimately Amen MADE as many shots at the rim in the half court as Ausar attempted, while doing it a 10% better clip.
Amen’s ability to break down defenses and get to the rim in the half court is far superior, and bodes much better for a primary creator. He just has so much more creativity as a playmaker. Sometimes he goes overboard and refuses to make the simple pass, but I like the creativity.

Ausar shot 35% on low volume pull up 2’s and 29% on unguarded C&S 3’s. He actually shot higher on guarded c&s 3’s , which makes me think his final 3pt numbers are a little bit noisy. Bad free throw shooter.

My concern for Ausar is what does he actually do well on offense outside of transition play. Right now he doesn’t seem to bring anything in the half court offense as a scorer, aside from hopefully being an off ball cutter ala Hami Diallo. He’s a good connective passer for sure, but he hasn’t shown to be the type to break guys down off the dribble and be creative as a playmaker.

[thelead]

I hope they both go top 5

[EvanZ]

I have Amen over Ausar as prospects still.

To my eye, whenever I watched full OTE games , Amen’s passing was definitely on a different level compared to Ausar. The numbers are the same but the ability to make reads and process plays at elite speed seemed much higher for Amen.

And I’m not sure how to quantify this, but Ausar seemed to benefit from playing with Amen far more than Amen benefitted from playing with Ausar.

Ausar really struggled in the half court as a scorer from anywhere, he was a zero level scorer. He shot 40% on layups in the half court , and had half the volume of Amen who made 50% of his. Amen had almost 2 times as many dunks in the half court. Overall Ausar was 51% at the rim in the half court, which is terrible considering his athletic gifts and the weak rim presence in the OTE.

Ultimately Amen MADE as many shots at the rim in the half court as Ausar attempted, while doing it a 10% better clip.
Amen’s ability to break down defenses and get to the rim in the half court is far superior, and bodes much better for a primary creator. He just has so much more creativity as a playmaker. Sometimes he goes overboard and refuses to make the simple pass, but I like the creativity.

Ausar shot 35% on low volume pull up 2’s and 29% on unguarded C&S 3’s. He actually shot higher on guarded c&s 3’s , which makes me think his final 3pt numbers are a little bit noisy. Bad free throw shooter.

My concern for Ausar is what does he actually do well on offense outside of transition play. Right now he doesn’t seem to bring anything in the half court offense as a scorer, aside from hopefully being an off ball cutter ala Hami Diallo. He’s a good connective passer for sure, but he hasn’t shown to be the type to break guys down off the dribble and be creative as a playmaker.

Truly hilarious take. They are identical twins with identical stats except Ausar shot better. Except the way you talk about it Amen is a star and Ausar might be out of the league in two years.

[The Moose]

I have Amen over Ausar as prospects still.

To my eye, whenever I watched full OTE games , Amen’s passing was definitely on a different level compared to Ausar. The numbers are the same but the ability to make reads and process plays at elite speed seemed much higher for Amen.

And I’m not sure how to quantify this, but Ausar seemed to benefit from playing with Amen far more than Amen benefitted from playing with Ausar.

Ausar really struggled in the half court as a scorer from anywhere, he was a zero level scorer. He shot 40% on layups in the half court , and had half the volume of Amen who made 50% of his. Amen had almost 2 times as many dunks in the half court. Overall Ausar was 51% at the rim in the half court, which is terrible considering his athletic gifts and the weak rim presence in the OTE.

Ultimately Amen MADE as many shots at the rim in the half court as Ausar attempted, while doing it a 10% better clip.
Amen’s ability to break down defenses and get to the rim in the half court is far superior, and bodes much better for a primary creator. He just has so much more creativity as a playmaker. Sometimes he goes overboard and refuses to make the simple pass, but I like the creativity.

Ausar shot 35% on low volume pull up 2’s and 29% on unguarded C&S 3’s. He actually shot higher on guarded c&s 3’s , which makes me think his final 3pt numbers are a little bit noisy. Bad free throw shooter.

My concern for Ausar is what does he actually do well on offense outside of transition play. Right now he doesn’t seem to bring anything in the half court offense as a scorer, aside from hopefully being an off ball cutter ala Hami Diallo. He’s a good connective passer for sure, but he hasn’t shown to be the type to break guys down off the dribble and be creative as a playmaker.

Truly hilarious take. They are identical twins with identical stats except Ausar shot better. Except the way you talk about it Amen is a star and Ausar might be out of the league in two years.

lol come on, there is no need to be so pretentious and mischaracterise the discourse

I have never alluded to Amen as a star, or that Ausar would be out of the league in 2 years. I'm not all together that high on either. But even a guy like Hami just finished his 5th season and Ausar is better at just about everything and another planet as far as a connective passer. Ausar should find a place in the league just based off size, tools and a baseline of skills.

I would have Amen in the 6-10 range and Ausar 10-14. I think Amen has the potential to be a lead on ball guy unlike Ausar, for the reasons outlined in my initial post, and thats why I would take a chance on Amen earlier.
If someone thinks Amen isn't capable of being a lead creator, then yes Ausar could end up being the better player and I could see why they would prefer Ausar.

Ausar is the better shooter obviously, but they are both currently non-shooters. Going back across 3 seasons of highschool + OTE (100+ game sample size) Amen is at 29% from 3, Ausar at 30% from 3, Amen 61% ft and Ausar 70%ft. This on 500+ free throw attempts.

These are absolutely non-shooter numbers regardless of Ausar being better. Assuming either one will become a good shooter is a big leap, and I wouldn't make it for either.

Feel free to address Ausar's massive deficiencies in attacking and finishing in the halfcourt in a bad league though, or the blatant differences between the two as PnR handlers. Or just hand wave 'muh identical pts/rebs/asts stats' with zero context, up to you.

[CptCrunch]

Ausar is the better shooter obviously, but they are both currently non-shooters. Going back across 3 seasons of highschool + OTE (100+ game sample size) Amen is at 29% from 3, Ausar at 30% from 3, Amen 61% ft and Ausar 70%ft. This on 500+ free throw attempts.

Ehhh

Amen is a complete rebuild from zero situation. Amen's form is completely broken. His motion is broken. His lift/body form is completely broken. This is like Markelle Fultz yips rebuild from zero or Brandon Clarke shot rebuild in college situation. This type of rebuild almost never end up in a a high level shooter. Your realistic high end outcome is a 30-33% shooter from 3 in really the best case (probably a two coin toss heads in a row kind of chance).

Ausar's shot is mechanical, but salvageable. His motion is not completely consistent but his shot is workable. With his atheletic gift, I can see him a being a mid-range shooter elevating with his atheleticism and size like a smaller Lamarcus Aldridge. Few season down the line, can see him develop into some 35-37% shooter from 3, or at least there is a path. With play making, size, atheleticism and workable shot, Ausar is a workable prospect.

Back to Amen, I really don't know how much value there is given that is a complete non-shooter. There is a valley of a difference here between Ausar and Amen. People like to group them together into like the #3/4 slot or #4/5 slot or even group their high school rankings together. They are really different prospects. In general, I think NBA has had a tough time separating twins and their skills apart.

[Hal14]

The shooting is a true worry. I generally give a guy some hope for a 3PT development if they have a nice FT% - Leonard Miller for example is at 79% despite 31% 3PT, Scoot at 75% despite 32% 3PT.

But the Thompson kids are in the mid 60% range. Even Giddey was at 69%.

Those elite first steps are not going to be nearly as useful if neither can shoot, defender will just sag off and allow more room to react when they initiate a first step.

There is so much to like about these guys but your really gambling on someone becoming a decent shooter when their shot measurables are in a range that makes it far from a sure thing.

I think Amen has the best natural point abilities, court vision and first step in the draft, and I still worry that all that is moot if he shoots like Livingston.

Why? Westbrook and Rose won MVP. Rondo was an all-star, so was Wall. De'Aaron Fox is an all-star. None of these guys were very good shooters.

Imagine if they were 6'7" with a 7'0" wingspan.

Ben Simmons couldn't shoot and was an all-NBA player. Imagine if he was shorter but more athletic, less injury prone and actually gave a sh*t about basketball?

[K_chile22]

The shooting is a true worry. I generally give a guy some hope for a 3PT development if they have a nice FT% - Leonard Miller for example is at 79% despite 31% 3PT, Scoot at 75% despite 32% 3PT.

But the Thompson kids are in the mid 60% range. Even Giddey was at 69%.

Those elite first steps are not going to be nearly as useful if neither can shoot, defender will just sag off and allow more room to react when they initiate a first step.

There is so much to like about these guys but your really gambling on someone becoming a decent shooter when their shot measurables are in a range that makes it far from a sure thing.

I think Amen has the best natural point abilities, court vision and first step in the draft, and I still worry that all that is moot if he shoots like Livingston.

Why? Westbrook and Rose won MVP. Rondo was an all-star, so was Wall. De'Aaron Fox is an all-star. None of these guys were very good shooters.

Imagine if they were 6'7" with a 7'0" wingspan.

Ben Simmons couldn't shoot and was an all-NBA player. Imagine if he was shorter but more athletic, less injury prone and actually gave a sh*t about basketball?

Yeah and I think Simmons' shot was even worse to start (took 3 3s in college, wasn't even putting them up still) and somehow reggressed from there. think Amen's biggest issues on his jumper comes from balance and lower body stuff. His follow through drifts off to the side to counterbalance himself because his footwork on his jumper is really bad. when he does turn and fades where hes already moving one direction his upper body part of his shot looks much more natural

[EvanZ]

OKC would take Amen in a heartbeat. They love non-shooters.

[CptCrunch]

Would like to point out that Thompson twins were draft eligible last year.

Reclassifying and academics has never stopped a player from going to the NBA.

Going from 14/6/4 to 16/6/6 in two year of high school plus is probably the most fradulent player development I've ever witnessed. It doesn't help the fact that two rank #32/33 players were immediately vaulted to a top #5 pick by their first months in the OTE, championed by slews of <5k sub Youtube channels and Twitter analysts. I'm suggesting that there is a fradulent media campaign out there boosting the twin up until propaganda becomes a re-regurgitating norm.

I've never been more convinced in my life that Amen is the biggest fraud in recent memory if drafted within the top 5.

[Hal14]

Would like to point out that Thompson twins were draft eligible last year.

No they weren't.

https://www.zagsblog.com/2022/04/21/overtime-elites-amen-and-ausar-thompson-still-enrolled-in-high-school-courses-not-eligible-for-2022-nba-draft/

You think they would have done a second year in OTE if they could have been making millions in the NBA instead?

They would have both been top 5 picks in 2022 if they were draft eligible.

[mattao313]

What makes these guys better prospects then a GG Jackson? If the twins are top 10 so should he.

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[baldur]

not sure in what way you would be able to fool lots of scouts, executives, managers, media personnel, etc dramatically in this age.