Shams: Lillard to Milwaukee in three team deal

[JRoy]

I actually like the haul for Portland assuming they can get back a good return for Jrue.

Portland rolling with Ayton at the center position is such a Portland thing to do though.

He is a real gamble but at least his legs haven’t fallen off.

Yet.

[JB7]

I actually like the haul for Portland assuming they can get back a good return for Jrue.

Portland rolling with Ayton at the center position is such a Portland thing to do though.

The Ayton deal looks like it was already constructed before the Bucks deal. I seriously doubt Grayson Allen was the key to making that deal.

Suns badly wanted Ayton out before the season started and probably set their sights on Nurkic being the only reasonable C they could expect back in return, with some other bench assets.

The inclusion of Ayton into the Bucks deal just gives PDX/Cronin some cover that they got something tangible back in the deal.

[JB7]

Too soon to tell.

Apparently Jrue will be moved soon and who knows what that return will look like.

I’m not a Scoot fan, I’m not an Ayton fan but I have to lay aside my reservations and give them the chance to prove me wrong.

Looking forward to Sharpe in a bigger role.


Glad it is almost over. Ready for something besides swatting down bad trade ideas.

Transition to dissecting horrible trades now?

Honestly, the only conclusion I can come up with on this deal for the Blazers is they were ‘gifted’ the 3rd pick in the draft and Scoot by the NBA, so that they could gift Dame to the Bucks.

A Dame & Giannis pairing is great for the league for the next year or two.

Yeah, based on everything JRoy has said he would have easily turned this trade down if we suggested it. He's most likely unhappy with the value but hoping things turn out well. When you turn down OG and end up with 33 year old Jrue Holiday instead in proposals, it's not something you're going to be happy with. The Blazers basically gave Dame away to Milwaukee though they may be in for a nice haul in 5 seasons..

I really don’t like the trading of picks as the main piece in any deal. Horrible for both teams. Outside of possibly the Celtics/Nets big deal years back that brought Garnett and Pierce to the Nets (which was kind of unheard of then and the first big transfer of picks) and ended up with Celtics drafting Jaylen Brown with one of the picks I believe, really most of these picks transferred don’t end up being anywhere near equal value of the player going out. Reason is the team that has traded the picks now has no incentive to lose, and therefore does everything they can to win.

That is also why it is so bad for the teams trading the picks, because sometimes a 1 or 2 year tank to acquire young assets can be a good thing.

Part of the parity in the league now could be attributed to all of these teams trading their picks, removing the incentive to lose in certain seasons.

I think the reason most GM’s revert to trading picks is it shelters them from criticism of the deal, because the end results of the picks will be unknown for years. So typically the picks get talked about in the best potential scenario, rather than the worst, which the picks lean towards most of the time.

I was arguing this earlier, and even Bill Simmons mentioned it on his podcast. I think this is a two year trial for competing, and then the Bucks will trade Giannis. Bill was even speculating it could be a one year run, and then they blow it up, and the reason is the picks. The Bucks have no incentive to be bad in those years, and while Giannis will still be good and just turning 30, the rest of the team around him will probably be done, with little room to maneuver to get better. So the simple solution is trade Giannis for a massive haul and rebuild quickly on the fly. And the team sitting on the most assets is easily OKC.

So by the time these picks transfer, they will probably not be in the lottery.

[JRoy]

I actually like the haul for Portland assuming they can get back a good return for Jrue.

Portland rolling with Ayton at the center position is such a Portland thing to do though.

The Ayton deal looks like it was already constructed before the Bucks deal. I seriously doubt Grayson Allen was the key to making that deal.

Suns badly wanted Ayton out before the season started and probably set their sights on Nurkic being the only reasonable C they could expect back in return, with some other bench assets.

The inclusion of Ayton into the Bucks deal just gives PDX/Cronin some cover that they got something tangible back in the deal.

Exactly.

Ayton is a polarizing player and the POR office can say “we got a former #1 overall for Lillard teh winzzors!!”

[2019nbachamps]

Woj article suggests:

Bucks made the best offer

We were never really in the running

Will be interesting to see what team chemistry is like this season with pretty much all our key guys on the trade block. At this stage seems like Barnes is the only guy our management seem untouchable.

[2019nbachamps]

I actually like the haul for Portland assuming they can get back a good return for Jrue.

Portland rolling with Ayton at the center position is such a Portland thing to do though.

The Ayton deal looks like it was already constructed before the Bucks deal. I seriously doubt Grayson Allen was the key to making that deal.

Suns badly wanted Ayton out before the season started and probably set their sights on Nurkic being the only reasonable C they could expect back in return, with some other bench assets.

The inclusion of Ayton into the Bucks deal just gives PDX/Cronin some cover that they got something tangible back in the deal.

Exactly.

Ayton is a polarizing player and the POR office can say “we got a former #1 overall for Lillard teh winzzors!!”

Portland should be able to get more draft picks for Jrue.

Anyways the reporting strongly suggests there wasn’t that big of a market for Dame. Teams didn’t want his salary.

[Scase]

throughout those trade rumors and the ones including Grady: I thought he could not be traded until December having signed his rookie contract. Have the rules changed?

I could've sworn it was 30 days after the contract is signed, that's why a bunch of people were theory crafting that bufkin didn't get signed as quickly as the rest of the rookies, cause he was going to be in a package for Siakam.

[Los_29]

I actually like the haul for Portland assuming they can get back a good return for Jrue.

Portland rolling with Ayton at the center position is such a Portland thing to do though.

He is a real gamble but at least his legs haven’t fallen off.

Yet.

His work ethic has. Lol.

[Raptorfan2012]

If Portland is still interested in our offer of Trent and Dick, I would do a 3 way with Jrue going to Miami and Herro coming to Toronto. Herro fits our timeline a bit more than Dick IMO but still excited to keep Dick if no deals go through.

[bballsparkin]

Trent and Dick for Herro. Meh, I don't know about that. Pass.

[JRoy]

If Portland is still interested in our offer of Trent and Dick, I would do a 3 way with Jrue going to Miami and Herro coming to Toronto. Herro fits our timeline a bit more than Dick IMO but still excited to keep Dick if no deals go through.

POR is not interested in that.

Quit trying to offer us Dick, we are not into it.

[ash_k]

Lots of rumination going on here but at the end of the day Lillard wanting to go with Bucks and not to the Raptors played a big role in the final trade.
We shot our shot and it didn’t happen. Still happy knowing our FO is aggressive and looking to exploit opportunities when available.

Last year, we almost got Ayton then went after KD and now Lillard. FO has been working and will keep working.That FO gave us the championship already hence any criticism towards Masai(&Bobby) must always be "moderated" unless you are one of those "Edward Rogers".

If given an option to join a DPOY/2xMVP/Finals MVP-Giannis-led team anywhere(Boise,Idaho) or join a 2x All-star-Siakam-led team in T.O, if it is all about winning nobody would pick T.O.! Lillard did not have room to any risk at his age thus I don't understand the insecurities(again) being expressed by posters here.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Looks like Cronin let Woj get his hands on his Moleskin journal. The portrayal is that Phoenix accepted "trust me, bro" as the final piece for Ayton. They were ready to accept it being Oladipo, ffs.

The Raptors were definitely in this. As I suspected, Cronin had to keep Milwaukee's interest silent, which created only a perception that Miami and Toronto were involved. Cronin then stubbornly shut out Miami entirely, and considered the deal a win in part because he didn't go to Miami. Masai likely knew that it was so bad between Riley and Cronin that his deal was good enough, because the league stepped in. If the league is trying to make trades for your team, I'm sure all the teams are aware.

In the end, Cronin got his feelings hurt, Riley overplayed his hand, Masai tried to sneak away with Lillard, but had no idea about Milwaukee and wouldn't bid against himself. Cronin couldn't risk losing Milwaukee's offer and couldn't leverage it to get more out of Toronto.

[Wise80]

Looks like Cronin let Woj get his hands on his Moleskin journal. The portrayal is that Phoenix accepted "trust me, bro" as the final piece for Ayton. They were ready to accept it being Oladipo, ffs.

The Raptors were definitely in this. As I suspected, Cronin had to keep Milwaukee's interest silent, which created only a perception that Miami and Toronto were involved. Cronin then stubbornly shut out Miami entirely, and considered the deal a win in part because he didn't go to Miami. Masai likely knew that it was so bad between Riley and Cronin that his deal was good enough, because the league stepped in. If the league is trying to make trades for your team, I'm sure all the teams are aware.

In the end, Cronin got his feelings hurt, Riley overplayed his hand, Masai tried to sneak away with Lillard, but had no idea about Milwaukee and wouldn't bid against himself. Cronin couldn't risk losing Milwaukee's offer and couldn't leverage it to get more out of Toronto.

I don't get the "had to keep the Milwaukee offer silent". What GM would wouldn't want that? Who wants there players knowing they're in trade discussions?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Looks like Cronin let Woj get his hands on his Moleskin journal. The portrayal is that Phoenix accepted "trust me, bro" as the final piece for Ayton. They were ready to accept it being Oladipo, ffs.

The Raptors were definitely in this. As I suspected, Cronin had to keep Milwaukee's interest silent, which created only a perception that Miami and Toronto were involved. Cronin then stubbornly shut out Miami entirely, and considered the deal a win in part because he didn't go to Miami. Masai likely knew that it was so bad between Riley and Cronin that his deal was good enough, because the league stepped in. If the league is trying to make trades for your team, I'm sure all the teams are aware.

In the end, Cronin got his feelings hurt, Riley overplayed his hand, Masai tried to sneak away with Lillard, but had no idea about Milwaukee and wouldn't bid against himself. Cronin couldn't risk losing Milwaukee's offer and couldn't leverage it to get more out of Toronto.

I don't get the "had to keep the Milwaukee offer silent". What GM would wouldn't want that? Who wants there players knowing they're in trade discussions?

You didn't read the article, then. Milwaukee would have pulled out.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

I think Cronin just split the baby down the middle. They didn’t necessarily accept the best offer but they also made sure dame got a chance to contend.

[JRoy]

I think Cronin just split the baby down the middle. They didn’t necessarily accept the best offer but they also made sure dame got a chance to contend.

It was the best offer.

Easily.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

I think Cronin just split the baby down the middle. They didn’t necessarily accept the best offer but they also made sure dame got a chance to contend.

It was the best offer.

Easily.

Depends on what jrue trade conveys I guess. I think jrue market more limited than most make it out to be due to age and contract. But we shall see

[ForeverTFC]

I actually like the haul for Portland assuming they can get back a good return for Jrue.

Portland rolling with Ayton at the center position is such a Portland thing to do though.

The Ayton deal looks like it was already constructed before the Bucks deal. I seriously doubt Grayson Allen was the key to making that deal.

Suns badly wanted Ayton out before the season started and probably set their sights on Nurkic being the only reasonable C they could expect back in return, with some other bench assets.

The inclusion of Ayton into the Bucks deal just gives PDX/Cronin some cover that they got something tangible back in the deal.

Yeah. I’m really not a fan of the media carrying Cronin’s water by including Ayton as a return in the Dame trade. That deal was apparently done in July. Cronin just wanted to make the return for Dame look better.

[JRoy]

I think Cronin just split the baby down the middle. They didn’t necessarily accept the best offer but they also made sure dame got a chance to contend.

It was the best offer.

Easily.

Depends on what jrue trade conveys I guess. I think jrue market more limited than most make it out to be due to age and contract. But we shall see

A young starting center and a former all star trump Herro, mediocre prospects and late picks. You are right though, we won’t know until Jrue gets moved.