Trae Young is Ridiculously Underrated

[Rainwater]

Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

GSW was 12-14 before last nights win. Does that make Curry's numbers in those losses empty stats?

Are we really comparing Trae and Curry right now. Curry has actually won and is a MVP winner other than one fluke playoff run Trae hasn’t really done anything.

[ChuckChilly]

Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

GSW was 12-14 before last nights win. Does that make Curry's numbers in those losses empty stats?

No, the 4 rings and 2 MVPs do that.

You're really going to compare Trae to Curry?

No, Im forcing you to determine when stats are "empty" or not. It seems to be on a by player basis going off your response.

[ChuckChilly]

Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

GSW was 12-14 before last nights win. Does that make Curry's numbers in those losses empty stats?

Are we really comparing Trae and Curry right now. Curry has actually won and is a MVP winner other than one fluke playoff run Trae hasn’t really done anything.

No he was implying Trae's stats are empty because he got them in Hawk's losses. By that logic, any good stats put up in losses are empty.

[Rainwater]

GSW was 12-14 before last nights win. Does that make Curry's numbers in those losses empty stats?

No, the 4 rings and 2 MVPs do that.

You're really going to compare Trae to Curry?

No, Im forcing you to determine when stats are "empty" or not. It seems to be on a by player basis going off your response.

Empty stats are putting up numbers on consistently bad teams which career hasn’t done.

[ChuckChilly]

No, the 4 rings and 2 MVPs do that.

You're really going to compare Trae to Curry?

No, Im forcing you to determine when stats are "empty" or not. It seems to be on a by player basis going off your response.

Empty stats are putting up numbers on consistently bad teams which career hasn’t done.

The Hawks have been a .500 or better team for the past 3 year now. Does that classify as a bad team?

[Ball4life32]

No, Im forcing you to determine when stats are "empty" or not. It seems to be on a by player basis going off your response.

Empty stats are putting up numbers on consistently bad teams which career hasn’t done.

The Hawks have been a .500 or better team for the past 3 year now. Does that classify as a bad team?

Not to mention hawks have had injuries plus they start poorly every year. Hell the ECF team in 2021 was 14-20 at one point (after a 4-1 start) and they finished the season 27-11. Not saying they make a run but it’s early. They really need Jalen Johnson back. They need defense bad.

[wco81]

No, Im forcing you to determine when stats are "empty" or not. It seems to be on a by player basis going off your response.

Empty stats are putting up numbers on consistently bad teams which career hasn’t done.

The Hawks have been a .500 or better team for the past 3 year now. Does that classify as a bad team?

Not a bad team, not very good either.

Trae is making over $40 million a season now and for the next two seasons. In 2026-27, he will be eligible for early termination and get another big extension, probably averaging well over $50 million a year.

Do the Hawks award him another big extension for putting up stats or does the team have to be better than a .500 team, hovering around the play-in level for the next 2-3 seasons?

Of course the roster will be much more expensive by then. Johnson and Griffin will be on their second contracts, maybe Bey as well.

Will the team have at least made another ECF run or be more likely to do so in 2-3 seasons?

[dygaction]

For the past four years, Trae's first 10 games have been terribly bad in shooting (~.40FG% and <.30 3pt%). Then jump up by >10% in his next 10-20 games (>.40 3pt%). Any plausible reasons for this? I don't think he has conditioning problem, just rusty?

[kg01]

The Hawks have been a .500 or better team for the past 3 year now. Does that classify as a bad team?

Can you hear the screeeech of the goalposts moving to make their arguments work?

[Doranku]

Don't think it's fair to call Trae's stats empty this early in his career. He's leading the Hawks to the 4th best offense in the league with no other player even being close to all-star level on that team.

[Lalouie]

wow this thread sure has legs

and btw, this has nothing to do with stats. he is underrated because virtually no one talks about him. during his stay he was the afterthought to luka > is he better than luka > no he ain't > is he underrated > he's probably 6th on anyone's list > trae who?

what this has to do with is atl has a rancid history as a place for random talented stat stuffers, head cases, and losers - and most ignominiously embodied in the smith/johnson/crawford era. all the flaves are now sgi/brunson/mitchell/fox/ja/maxey/haliburton/. and trae now takes a backseat to every promising rookie each year, they are bigger than him and they score as well as..........and did you know he's 1year older than luka

trae might very well be a victim of a subconscious eternal comparison to luka. maybe the comparison is deserved but there it is

trae has to go somewhere else if he has any self-worth

[Pelly24]

I gotta say, I'm surprised I'm not an NBA journalist. here's to 2024 changing that somewhat

[ChuckChilly]

Empty stats are putting up numbers on consistently bad teams which career hasn’t done.

The Hawks have been a .500 or better team for the past 3 year now. Does that classify as a bad team?

Not a bad team, not very good either.

Trae is making over $40 million a season now and for the next two seasons. In 2026-27, he will be eligible for early termination and get another big extension, probably averaging well over $50 million a year.

Do the Hawks award him another big extension for putting up stats or does the team have to be better than a .500 team, hovering around the play-in level for the next 2-3 seasons?

Of course the roster will be much more expensive by then. Johnson and Griffin will be on their second contracts, maybe Bey as well.

Will the team have at least made another ECF run or be more likely to do so in 2-3 seasons?

This is kind of going outside of the scope of the point I was trying to make to the other posters. Do the Hawks have a lot of questions about the direction of the roster? Most definitely. Is Trae worth another max contract with the results we have gotten/ or potentially will continue to get? Probably not.

My main point was that most of Trae's criticizers grade him on a completely different scale than other players. They either watch him a couple of games and hurl out whatever thought comes to mind, or they just don't plain like him as a player and try to use any stat they can find to justify their dislike instead of just saying that.

[Jamaaliver]

Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

Nah, empty stats are production that has no effect on the outcome of the game.

What you're seeing is a case of great player on a bad team.



You take Trae off the Hawks, they aren't even a playoff team...

[Lunartic]

Yes, the Hawks are a bad team, is there really an argument otherwise?

You think good teams win 11 games out of 26?

[tsherkin]

Nah, empty stats are production that has no effect on the outcome of the game.

What you're seeing is a case of great player on a bad team.



You take Trae off the Hawks, they aren't even a playoff team...

"Great" is maybe a little aggressive. He is very good, though, and he is certainly more than empty stats.

[ChuckChilly]

Yes, the Hawks are a bad team, is there really an argument otherwise?

You think good teams win 11 games out of 26?

Its still too early to call teams good or bad at this point, especially when they are still in striking distance of so many other teams. Thats part of the reason why I brought up Golden State, who had a very similar record before last nights win.

[wco81]

Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

Nah, empty stats are production that has no effect on the outcome of the game.

What you're seeing is a case of great player on a bad team.



You take Trae off the Hawks, they aren't even a playoff team...

Probably true but even if they make the playoffs every year, they may be a treadmill team except for that one run to the ECF.

Like I said, the roster becomes very expensive in a couple more seasons when Trae is up for another extension, if they decide to extend 2 or 3 of their guys currently on rookie deals.

Hawks made a big move for Murray and so far it hasn't raised their ceiling so a lot of things could change by 2026-27.

So ultimately, his numbers have to be evaluated in the context of where the franchise is, with the trajectory of their payroll and where they stand in comparison to other EC teams.

[tsherkin]

Probably true but even if they make the playoffs every year, they may be a treadmill team except for that one run to the ECF.

Like I said, the roster becomes very expensive in a couple more seasons when Trae is up for another extension, if they decide to extend 2 or 3 of their guys currently on rookie deals.

Hawks made a big move for Murray and so far it hasn't raised their ceiling so a lot of things could change by 2026-27.

So ultimately, his numbers have to be evaluated in the context of where the franchise is, with the trajectory of their payroll and where they stand in comparison to other EC teams.

Trae has been a 20+ ppg player since 2020. 25+ ppg, really. 9+ apg during that stretch, too.

During that time...

Code: Select all

2020: +6.2 OBPM, .133 WS/48, +6.0 O-EPM (4th)
2021: +5.3 OBPM, .163 WS/48, +5.2 O-EPM (7th)
2022: +7.1 OBPM, .181 WS/48, +6.5 O-EPM (2nd)
2023: +5.3 OBPM, .126 WS/48, +3.8 O-EPM (22nd)
2024: +6.3 OBPM, .148 WS/48, +5.4 O-EPM (7th)  [so far]


Food for thought.

People are definitely cracking on him while he is down after a rough year last season. Worst 3pt shooting season since his rookie campaign (and lowest volume), 2nd lowest FG% inside the arc of his career, just ahead of this year so far.

His defense has historically been an issue but improved over time. His postseason performance issues are known, of course, and are a limitation on how good he can be considered next to his peers who do perform well in the playoffs. But he is actually a pretty good offensive player in the regular season.

[Jamaaliver]

...his numbers have to be evaluated in the context of where the franchise is, with the trajectory of their payroll and where they stand in comparison to other EC teams.

That's not fair.

Dude is top 10 in scoring.
Top 2 in assists.
Leading a top-5 offense in the NBA.


That's literally all you can ask from a top flight Point Guard. it's on the Coach/GM/Role Players to handle the rest.