Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[shrink]

I’d love to know your top 1-2 buy-out playoff contributors.

Chris Paul and Gordon Hayward

Good choices but I don't think Paul will be available. GSW will try to get in the play-in. Right or wrong, they are confident about knocking off a 1 or 2 seed

True, but any buy out candidate is a guess. Even the most likely, Kyle Lowry, who didn’t even report to CHA, may not be bought out. The Hornets could try to use his deal to salary-match a trade for a worse contract and an asset.

Buy outs have been romanticized, but they rarely yield a significant player. When a team buys out a player, they are guaranteeing they will get zero production from that piece of dead payroll. Even small amounts of value is better than zero. A team needs to believe that whatever a player is willing to give back, and a little good will, is worth taking that goose egg.

[thinktank]

We will be competing with OKC and PHI for the top buy out candidates that make more than the MLE, and all contenders for those that make less.

Also, keep in mind that there aren’t any franchise saviors on the buy out market. If they were very good, they’d be traded, or at least teams would ask them to help and finish the season. If we are lucky, we might get a tenth man, but only 1-2 of these buy out guys in NBA history have ever contributed significantly in the playoffs.

I’d love to know your top 1-2 buy-out playoff contributors.

Chris Paul and Gordon Hayward.

If they were healthy at the end of the season (big if), both have the potential and experience to play significant rotation minutes in a game of two in a series. Generally buy-out players are “more name than game,” but I think either has the chance to make a difference.

Those are good ones.

What about Peja when the Mavs won the chip? I think he’s on the list.

[winforlose]

Most teams add buyouts after having a complete rotation. We have an 8 man rotation with a Kyle sized question mark. Even if we add Monte, we still might want a Lowry as insurance. Hayward and Marcus Morris are both likely to be available and could both make an impact (regular season and playoffs.) There might be more we aren’t even considering yet.

[shrink]

I’d love to know your top 1-2 buy-out playoff contributors.

Chris Paul and Gordon Hayward.

If they were healthy at the end of the season (big if), both have the potential and experience to play significant rotation minutes in a game of two in a series. Generally buy-out players are “more name than game,” but I think either has the chance to make a difference.

Those are good ones.

What about Peja when the Mavs one the chip? I think he’s on the list.

Yep. Boris Diaw to the Spurs years ago was very good, and I think one of the Morris boys went to the Lakers recently and was helpful. But often there is a lot of crying about it “Can you believe who just got LaMarcus Aldridge? Unfair!” .. but when they get to their new team, people see why their original team bought them out in the first place.

[winforlose]

Chris Paul and Gordon Hayward.

If they were healthy at the end of the season (big if), both have the potential and experience to play significant rotation minutes in a game of two in a series. Generally buy-out players are “more name than game,” but I think either has the chance to make a difference.

Those are good ones.

What about Peja when the Mavs one the chip? I think he’s on the list.

Yep. Boris Diaw to the Spurs years ago was very good, and I think one of the Morris boys went to the Lakers recently and was helpful. But often there is a lot of crying about it “Can you believe who just got LaMarcus Aldridge? Unfair!” .. but when they get to their new team, people see why their original team bought them out in the first place.

There is an element of that. But take Roco and Marcus Morris. They were traded at the beginning of the year, and never intended to be in Philly. They have good sized contracts and are both expiring. They are perfect trade pieces for a consolidation trade. At that point why would a team keep them if they are not serious about competing. Save some money and let those guys try to ring chase.

[winforlose]

So crazy thought. Knicks lose Randle for weeks or more and a very promising season is in jeopardy. Knicks are rolling with OG and let’s say they go all in. Knicks give the Wolves 5 firsts, Julius Randle, and Fournier’s money and tell us to go find a third or fourth team to give us the players we want. Would you guys be tempted?

[MN7725]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274467/Gordon-Hayward-Unlikely-To-Seek-Buyout-With-Hornets

Gordon Hayward is not likely to seek a buyout if the Charlotte Hornets do not trade him by the deadline, sources tell Marc Stein.
Hayward would give up his Bird Rights if he's bought out.

[winforlose]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274467/Gordon-Hayward-Unlikely-To-Seek-Buyout-With-Hornets

Gordon Hayward is not likely to seek a buyout if the Charlotte Hornets do not trade him by the deadline, sources tell Marc Stein.
Hayward would give up his Bird Rights if he's bought out.

Makes perfect sense.

[TimberKat]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274467/Gordon-Hayward-Unlikely-To-Seek-Buyout-With-Hornets

Gordon Hayward is not likely to seek a buyout if the Charlotte Hornets do not trade him by the deadline, sources tell Marc Stein.
Hayward would give up his Bird Rights if he's bought out.

Makes perfect sense.

Although, at this point of Hayward's career, does Bird Rights really mean anything? He is at best a 20mil player. More like 12 mil per year for two years given his injury history.

[winforlose]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274467/Gordon-Hayward-Unlikely-To-Seek-Buyout-With-Hornets

Makes perfect sense.

Although, at this point of Hayward's career, does Bird Rights really mean anything? He is at best a 20mil player. More like 12 mil per year for two years given his injury history.

True. But as the cap increase maybe he gets a good deal. Without bird that could get lowballed, especially later in his limited years.

[TimberKat]

So crazy thought. Knicks lose Randle for weeks or more and a very promising season is in jeopardy. Knicks are rolling with OG and let’s say they go all in. Knicks give the Wolves 5 firsts, Julius Randle, and Fournier’s money and tell us to go find a third or fourth team to give us the players we want. Would you guys be tempted?

If I could flip the picks and Randle for Murray and Markkanen. Yes.

[winforlose]

So crazy thought. Knicks lose Randle for weeks or more and a very promising season is in jeopardy. Knicks are rolling with OG and let’s say they go all in. Knicks give the Wolves 5 firsts, Julius Randle, and Fournier’s money and tell us to go find a third or fourth team to give us the players we want. Would you guys be tempted?

If I could flip the picks and Randle for Murray and Markkanen. Yes.

I have been having this discussion on the NYK and trade board threads. The deal is basically Mitchell Robinson instead of Randle, but everything else holds true, and the money still works.


Wolves out: Karl Anthony Towns, protections on the 2029 first dropped.
Wolves in: Lauri Markkanen and Dejounte Murray.

Knicks out: Julius Randle, Evan Fournier, 5 firsts
Knicks in: Karl Anthony Towns

Jazz out: Markkanen, THT, one first round pick
Jazz in: Julius Randle, 4 firsts, protections dropped on Wolves 2029 first,

Hawks out: Murray
Hawks in: Fournier, THT, 1 NYK first, A first from either Cleveland or Minnesota unprotected

Why for the Wolves: Murray and Markkanen save money off of KAT’s deal. They together give the Wolves the fire power we are missing and the PG depth we need. Murray/Ant/McDaniels/Markkanen/Gobert is hands down the best lineup in the west.

Why for the Knicks: KAT is a massive upgrade over Randle. The consistency he brings and the improved defense is not only helpful this year, but next year when Robinson is back. You are talking about being able to run a successful two towers, or moving Robinson and still having an All NBA center. Meanwhile Brunson/DDV/OG/KAT/IH is a scary lineup in the East. This lineup has scoring, rim protection, rebounding, and defense. The money is an issue next year, but NY can handle an expensive team with a big market to support it. Moreover, KAT would be a huge draw.

Why for the Jazz: They get another Gobert sized package for Markkanen and Randle isn’t exactly value less. The Jazz are straddling two worlds right now. One of them is serious patience in a rebuild. The other is win now. I don’t think either is going to go well if the Jazz end up around 8-9 for the next few years and exit in the first, assuming they make it out of the play in. This adds even more assets to the rebuild and even more trade power in the years to come.

Why for the Hawks: They get expiring contracts, 2 unprotected firsts for Murray, and get to reset.

The picks in question can be played with by anyone interested. I am thinking the Dallas pick to Utah along with 2 unprotected NYK picks, and the final Utah pick is unclear. It could be a protected NYK pick much later or it could be a 2024 protected pick whose protections weaken over time. However the reader wants to input it. Thoughts and opinions?

[shrink]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274467/Gordon-Hayward-Unlikely-To-Seek-Buyout-With-Hornets

Makes perfect sense.

Although, at this point of Hayward's career, does Bird Rights really mean anything? He is at best a 20mil player. More like 12 mil per year for two years given his injury history.

Yep. If CHA doesn’t extend him, he only maintains his Bird rights if he signs with the Hornets this summer. He’ll be 34 this off-season, and doesn’t really fit the Hornets roster.

This news was probably put out there by the Hornets front office, in an effort to get some trade value for him prior to the deadline. I suspect if they don’t find a trade partner, he could be a buy out candidate.

[winforlose]

Makes perfect sense.

Although, at this point of Hayward's career, does Bird Rights really mean anything? He is at best a 20mil player. More like 12 mil per year for two years given his injury history.

Yep. If CHA doesn’t extend him, he only maintains his Bird rights if he signs with the Hornets this summer. He’ll be 34 this off-season, and doesn’t really fit the Hornets roster.

This news was probably put out there by the Hornets front office, in an effort to get some trade value for him prior to the deadline. I suspect if they don’t find a trade partner, he could be a buy out candidate.

Or they sign him to a 2 year deal with a team option and trade him next year for less money.

[KGdaBom]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

[Note30]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Dude is pretty injury prone.

[KGdaBom]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Dude is pretty injury prone.

He has a history, but his handling, shooting, BBIQ, experience are great. He is everything we are looking for in one package. Shooting 41% from 3. Heady veteran.

[Neeva]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Dude is pretty injury prone.

And he sucks in the playoffs usually.

[KGdaBom]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Dude is pretty injury prone.

And he sucks in the playoffs usually.

Irrelevant. You can't say he has sucked in previous playoffs so he will suck for us. Doesn't work that way. Out of curiosity do you have any stats on his playoff suckitude or are you just going off the top of your head?

[slick21]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Brogdon makes $22.5M per year. Only options would be 1) Conley 2) Naz Reid and Kyle Anderson 3) Reid/Shake/TBJ or 4) Anderson/Shake/TBJ/WMJ

In options 3 or 4, we'd have to sign 2 or 3 players to fill out our roster and I don't even know if we'd have cap space to do that.