The Gradey Dick Thread Part 2

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Lmao what? Siakam at 27 becoming an All-Star/All-NBA player severely outweighs a couple of bad picks in the 20s (Bruno and Flynn) as well as a few early 2nds that didn't pan out (Daniels and Koloko) on his own while OG at 23 becoming a premier 3+D wing was a massive hit too. Powell at 46 becoming one of the best bench scorers in the league and a guy who can get you 15-20 points on high efficiency most nights was a huge hit as well even if some of his best years in the NBA have come outside of Toronto. Poeltl and Delon were good picks at 9 and 20 while Scottie was a homerun at 4 and it is way too early to even judge Gradey at 13. It's pointless to bring up 3 "failed" picks at #59 or a few others at 46/47 where 90% of players picked in that range don't make it beyond their first NBA contract or contribute meaningfully for more than a few seasons anyway.

It's about a 33% hit rate. Think about that while we tank.

When half of your picks are being made in the 2nd round – with most of those coming in the 45-60 range – you're not going to hit on every pick. 8 of 16 picks since 2014 have come in the 2nd round accounting for the majority of misses in that span.

And if you want to talk about a 33% hit rate and compare things to a baseball player, think of it this way: are you really going to complain about a .333 average while being near the top of the league in extra base hits?

The problem is, if the draft's poor. You're stuck turning water into wine. You can't turn a mutt into a purebred.

[BCbudraptorfan]

Watch on YouTube

a bust interviewing a future star... they have gradey doing all these interviews and **** they know hes a bust

[anotherhomer]

it's discouraging considering other plays available at that time

Sure, I get that. But the past is another country. Let’s not live there anymore.

You live there when there is a bigger sample size of missed player evaluations. So far it’s Flynn and Dick in the last few years. Barnes was a great pick.

it's as experts have said....since 2019, Ujiri's moves have been subpar....
Barnes is saving grace, and IQ and Barrett is a solid get for OG, but they need to do more than that

[johanliebert]

It takes a few years to assess a draft class and people are losing their minds halfway through Dick's rookie season.

Unpopular opinion but I still like Dick as a prospect. If he's still struggling to shoot the ball next season, then it might be time to panac.

Most of this board never played or seen what development is like. Playing 30 minutes a night isnt development a lot happens off the court. Its a process and most of it is in the gym and film sessions ive already seen improvement from dick.

[OakleyDokely]

First 20 games: .282 FG, .239 3PT, 1.000 FT, -4.1
Last 8 games: .425 FG, .364 3PT, .714 FT, +2.5

He's still a little gun shy but his shots are at least falling at a respectable rate lately. They need to give a consistent role off the bench. If he can develop into a reliable rotation player by next year, they would be big.

[Duffman100]

First 20 games: .282 FG, .239 3PT, 1.000 FT, -4.1
Last 8 games: .425 FG, .364 3PT, .714 FT, +2.5

He's still a little gun shy but his shots are at least falling at a respectable rate lately. They need to give a consistent role off the bench. If he can develop into a reliable rotation player by next year, they would be big.

Ideally after the deadline there is a more clear path for steady PT

[sbsat]

Sure, I get that. But the past is another country. Let’s not live there anymore.

You live there when there is a bigger sample size of missed player evaluations. So far it’s Flynn and Dick in the last few years. Barnes was a great pick.

it's as experts have said....since 2019, Ujiri's moves have been subpar....
Barnes is saving grace, and IQ and Barrett is a solid get for OG, but they need to do more than that

The talent drain that occured post 2019 is near impossible to overcome. Masai has made many mistakes but to say they date back to 2019 is a bit unfair. More recently (2 years or so) he has made some head scratching decisions

[Thaddy]

He's going to be a bust because he will ALWAYS be a target on defense. You can't win with these type of players in the playoffs. It was a massive fail to not draft Whitmore when he slid to us.

[ChillRelaxDude]

He's going to be a bust because he will ALWAYS be a target on defense. You can't win with these type of players in the playoffs. It was a massive fail to not draft Whitmore when he slid to us.

This is so boring.

We all watch NBA playoff basketball and we all see how the potential of Gradey is a valuable contributor to NBA playoff basketball.

Time will tell for both players, but one doesn't become a bust because someone drafted after them was better. This is a kid-like take.

[ItsDanger]

He's going to be a bust because he will ALWAYS be a target on defense. You can't win with these type of players in the playoffs. It was a massive fail to not draft Whitmore when he slid to us.

This is so boring.

We all watch NBA playoff basketball and we all see how the potential of Gradey is a valuable contributor to NBA playoff basketball.

Time will tell for both players, but one doesn't become a bust because someone drafted after them was better. This is a kid-like take.

You skipped the defense part, and that's a valid criticism. But that's if you've watched playoff basketball.

[OakleyDokely]

A 19/20 year old rookie who really isn't developed physically being a liability defensively isn't exactly a rare occurrence in this league.

Most teenagers that come into the league aren't ready to defend and are a liability at that end. Hell IQ wasn't a good defender either when he came into the league. That doesn't mean players can't develop those skills as they gain more experience and strength.

Dick wasn't a bad defender in college. He was average-ish and maybe above that when you factor in his steal rate. Either way, it's still way to early to determine what kind of defender or player he will be when he's 25.

[ChillRelaxDude]

He's going to be a bust because he will ALWAYS be a target on defense. You can't win with these type of players in the playoffs. It was a massive fail to not draft Whitmore when he slid to us.

This is so boring.

We all watch NBA playoff basketball and we all see how the potential of Gradey is a valuable contributor to NBA playoff basketball.

Time will tell for both players, but one doesn't become a bust because someone drafted after them was better. This is a kid-like take.

You skipped the defense part, and that's a valid criticism. But that's if you've watched playoff basketball.

It's not a valid criticism until they make it to the playoffs and he shows as the weak link. He is not a finished product.

Gradey isn't a plus defender right now because he doesn't have NBA strength. Gradey can be a plus defender because he's very intelligent. Let him grow and add strength.

[pbernardi]

First 20 games: .282 FG, .239 3PT, 1.000 FT, -4.1
Last 8 games: .425 FG, .364 3PT, .714 FT, +2.5

He's still a little gun shy but his shots are at least falling at a respectable rate lately. They need to give a consistent role off the bench. If he can develop into a reliable rotation player by next year, they would be big.

Do you have the ORTG and DRTG for these 20 / 8 games?

I have a feeling that he may be a positive contributor in the defense in these last 8 games. He got some nice charges and steals.

[ItsDanger]

This is so boring.

We all watch NBA playoff basketball and we all see how the potential of Gradey is a valuable contributor to NBA playoff basketball.

Time will tell for both players, but one doesn't become a bust because someone drafted after them was better. This is a kid-like take.

You skipped the defense part, and that's a valid criticism. But that's if you've watched playoff basketball.

It's not a valid criticism until they make it to the playoffs and he shows as the weak link. He is not a finished product.

Gradey isn't a plus defender right now because he doesn't have NBA strength. Gradey can be a plus defender because he's very intelligent. Let him grow and add strength.

In the playoffs, teams target individuals way more often. In regular season, don't nearly as much.

[OakleyDokely]

First 20 games: .282 FG, .239 3PT, 1.000 FT, -4.1
Last 8 games: .425 FG, .364 3PT, .714 FT, +2.5

He's still a little gun shy but his shots are at least falling at a respectable rate lately. They need to give a consistent role off the bench. If he can develop into a reliable rotation player by next year, they would be big.

Do you have the ORTG and DRTG for these 20 / 8 games?

I have a feeling that he may be a positive contributor in the defense in these last 8 games. He got some nice charges and steals.

Over his last 8 games he has 111.5 offensive rating and a 111.0 defensive rating (+0.5 NET rating), both being much better than the first 20 games.

Over the same 8 game stretch, the Raps overall have a 112.0 offensive rating and a 119.4 defensive rating. So he's actually overperformed relative to the team from a defensive standpoint.

[dagger]

If comparing rookies is to be the benchmark, it's juts as fair to note that some rookies are overnight successes and others take 2-3 years to become impactful. I'm struck by how a 2021 first rounder (20th) in Jalen Johnson of Atlanta got into only 22 games for Atlanta as a rookie, averaging 5.5 minutes of garbage time, shooting 23% from three and 28% from the field, and is now viewed as untouchable by the Hawks. And it's not like there was a superstar blocking his path as a rookie. Players have unique development timelines, and I'm comfortable Gradey will develop into a solid rotation player, and probably a starter, when this team is a solid playoff bet again. He has a lot of skills, good athleticism and a high BBIQ.

[ChillRelaxDude]

You skipped the defense part, and that's a valid criticism. But that's if you've watched playoff basketball.

It's not a valid criticism until they make it to the playoffs and he shows as the weak link. He is not a finished product.

Gradey isn't a plus defender right now because he doesn't have NBA strength. Gradey can be a plus defender because he's very intelligent. Let him grow and add strength.

In the playoffs, teams target individuals way more often. In regular season, don't nearly as much.

Neat info!

We're about to go in a circle.

Right now, you're basing judgement on Gradey's defence as a rookie who has shown to have issues with strength and conditioning required to be a NBA player. By the time the Raptors make it to the playoffs, these concerns might no longer be valid. He's shown to be decent at putting himself in a position to defend, so time will tell.

Call him a bust and a target in the playoffs is ridiculous.

[ConSarnit]

It's not a valid criticism until they make it to the playoffs and he shows as the weak link. He is not a finished product.

Gradey isn't a plus defender right now because he doesn't have NBA strength. Gradey can be a plus defender because he's very intelligent. Let him grow and add strength.

In the playoffs, teams target individuals way more often. In regular season, don't nearly as much.

Neat info!

We're about to go in a circle.

Right now, you're basing judgement on Gradey's defence as a rookie who has shown to have issues with strength and conditioning required to be a NBA player. By the time the Raptors make it to the playoffs, these concerns might no longer be valid. He's shown to be decent at putting himself in a position to defend, so time will tell.

Call him a bust and a target in the playoffs is ridiculous.

I'd bet on Dick becoming at least a neutral defender. His issues are physicality, which is probably the easiest thing to fix. He's smart, tries hard and has actual size (measured 6'6+ without shoes). If you look at the history of guys who get targeted in the playoffs it's the 6'4 or under guys or the slow footed bigs.

It may seem reductive but if you are legit wing sized and you try on defense you usually don't get attacked.

[Kevin Willis]

Watch on YouTube

a bust interviewing a future star... they have gradey doing all these interviews and **** they know hes a bust

I wouldn't say Whitmore is a bust so soon. Give it some time.

[OakleyDokely]

This might be another draft for the Rockets where their mid 1st outperforms their top 5 pick.