NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[AleksandarN]

2013 LeBron is the last player to win both MVP and FMVP. Will 2024 Jokic be the next one?

If he does he will be close to knocking on the top 10 all time lists. 3 MVPs 2 FMVPs and two chips back to back.

[Whopper_Sr]

2013 LeBron is the last player to win both MVP and FMVP. Will 2024 Jokic be the next one?

He should have been the last one but we decided its too boring

Maybe there's no chip if he had won it. But now that a title is in the bag, it's time to get a bit greedy

[Whopper_Sr]

2013 LeBron is the last player to win both MVP and FMVP. Will 2024 Jokic be the next one?

If he does he will be close to knocking on the top 10 all time lists. 3 MVPs 2 FMVPs and two chips back to back.

Very much looking forward to all the discussion around his all time placement this summer if that happens

[Jaqua92]

Luka is coming...

Where is he going?

To the MVP throne.

The Mavs are winning now.

I mean, Jokic is still playing better basketball, the Nuggets are winning more AND are doing more with less right now.

[Special_Puppy]

Average MVP Odds with Vig Removed
Jokic 84%
SGA 9%
Luka 5%
Giannis 1%
Tatum 1%

[Yuri36]

Where is he going?

To the MVP throne.

The Mavs are winning now.

He hasn't been more impactful than Jokic sorry.

MUCH more points scored, more assists, more steals, 9 less wins BUT overall with a far worse team around this especially if you consider pre-trade Mavs and all the major injuries they had (Kyrie in particular).

And spare me the advanced stats, Joker is a center while Luka is a guard, of course that he will always be a more efficient scorer just by the lesser degree of difficulty of the shots a center takes comparing to a guard.

[Ambrose]

To the MVP throne.

The Mavs are winning now.

He hasn't been more impactful than Jokic sorry.

MUCH more points scored, more assists, more steals, 9 less wins BUT overall with a far worse team around this especially if you consider pre-trade Mavs and all the major injuries they had (Kyrie in particular).

And spare me the advanced stats, Joker is a center while Luka is a guard, of course that he will always be a more efficient scorer just by the lesser degree of difficulty of the shots a center takes comparing to a guard.

Luka is my favorite player.

He's not the MVP and has essentially no case.

[mpoo_sin]

At least noone with a clear head is talking about SGA winning the MVP. He is not on the same level as Doncic or Jokic. More like 2 or 3 levels below.

12/3/2 in 30 minutes is just not acceptable for a MVP candidat.

[B-easy]

At least noone with a clear head is talking about SGA winning the MVP. He is not on the same level as Doncic or Jokic. More like 2 or 3 levels below.

12/3/2 in 30 minutes is just not acceptable for a MVP candidat.

SGA is definitely ahead of Luka. SGA doesn't have as many fanboys so not as many people talking about him.

[Woodsanity]

Jokic also was missing murray for a lot of the season.

Sga’s teammates were very healthy.

Did chet even miss a game?

[Doctor MJ]

To the MVP throne.

The Mavs are winning now.

So are the nuggets. And now he’s shooting abysmal

Mavs in the playin and Jokic in first- kinda not really fair - SGA the betting second and Luka is kinda again a brides maid. Also you can love Luka but he still isn’t in the top 3 when Embiid plays - he still 4 or 5 considering if you like SGA or Luka more

The funny thing is SGA and Jokic might vote for Luka if they had a vote lol’
There is a ton of mutual respect at the top right now

Yup, totally unfair. That whole way they decide who wins and loses games - counting every teammate rathe than just the star and those he assist to - really is biased against Luka's MVP candidacy. Just not sure if it's because voters hated Slovenia or Texas.

[mpoo_sin]

At least noone with a clear head is talking about SGA winning the MVP. He is not on the same level as Doncic or Jokic. More like 2 or 3 levels below.

12/3/2 in 30 minutes is just not acceptable for a MVP candidat.

SGA is definitely ahead of Luka. SGA doesn't have as many fanboys so not as many people talking about him.

He is ahead because??
Old argument of a better team record? Individually it is a no contest. Doncic is better by a significant margin.

[dygaction]

So are the nuggets. And now he’s shooting abysmal

Mavs in the playin and Jokic in first- kinda not really fair - SGA the betting second and Luka is kinda again a brides maid. Also you can love Luka but he still isn’t in the top 3 when Embiid plays - he still 4 or 5 considering if you like SGA or Luka more

The funny thing is SGA and Jokic might vote for Luka if they had a vote lol’
There is a ton of mutual respect at the top right now

Yup, totally unfair. That whole way they decide who wins and loses games - counting every teammate rathe than just the star and those he assist to - really is biased against Luka's MVP candidacy. Just not sure if it's because voters hated Slovenia or Texas.

Yup, and instead of just an imaginary healthy Embiid, you forgot a younger LeBron, a jumpier KD, a this-year Tatum with last year stats, and a Steph with his previous supporting cast... So top 10 is on the optimistic side

[AleksandarN]

To the MVP throne.

The Mavs are winning now.

He hasn't been more impactful than Jokic sorry.

MUCH more points scored, more assists, more steals, 9 less wins BUT overall with a far worse team around this especially if you consider pre-trade Mavs and all the major injuries they had (Kyrie in particular).

And spare me the advanced stats, Joker is a center while Luka is a guard, of course that he will always be a more efficient scorer just by the lesser degree of difficulty of the shots a center takes comparing to a guard.

Luka with a higher usage rate with the ball stuck to hands twice as long. Jokic gets his team more involved than Luka does earlier in the shot clock. Plays better defense and commands his unit on both sides of floor by calling out plays and defensive strategies. So yes jokic has been more impactful. This is without using “advanced stats” which I could have used quite easily.

P.S. since you brought up Luka having more assists than Jokic Luka has more turnovers than Jokic by a larger margin compared to assists. Funny you didn’t bring that up.

[CobraCommander]

Mavs in the playin and Jokic in first- kinda not really fair - SGA the betting second and Luka is kinda again a brides maid. Also you can love Luka but he still isn’t in the top 3 when Embiid plays - he still 4 or 5 considering if you like SGA or Luka more

The funny thing is SGA and Jokic might vote for Luka if they had a vote lol’
There is a ton of mutual respect at the top right now

Either
Yup, totally unfair. That whole way they decide who wins and loses games - counting every teammate rathe than just the star and those he assist to - really is biased against Luka's MVP candidacy. Just not sure if it's because voters hated Slovenia or Texas.

Yup, and instead of just an imaginary healthy Embiid, you forgot a younger LeBron, a jumpier KD, a this-year Tatum with last year stats, and a Steph with his previous supporting cast... So top 10 is on the optimistic side

Either way - Luka isn’t the MVP or the best player on earth yet-

Luka is 25 - he will get his time at least one of these titles at some point . No one doubts this -

[dygaction]

He hasn't been more impactful than Jokic sorry.

MUCH more points scored, more assists, more steals, 9 less wins BUT overall with a far worse team around this especially if you consider pre-trade Mavs and all the major injuries they had (Kyrie in particular).

And spare me the advanced stats, Joker is a center while Luka is a guard, of course that he will always be a more efficient scorer just by the lesser degree of difficulty of the shots a center takes comparing to a guard.

Luka with a higher usage rate with the ball stuck to hands twice as long. Jokic gets his team more involved than Luka does earlier in the shot clock. Plays better defense and commands his unit on both sides of floor by calling out plays and defensive strategies. So yes jokic has been more impactful. This is without using “advanced stats” which I could have used quite easily.

P.S. since you brought up Luka having more assists than Jokic Luka has more turnovers than Jokic by a larger margin compared to assists. Funny you didn’t bring that up.

to be fair, you cannot only looking at turnovers to assists when we are talking about a league leading 34ppg scorer. They have very comparable TOV%.

[Special_Puppy]

Either
Yup, totally unfair. That whole way they decide who wins and loses games - counting every teammate rathe than just the star and those he assist to - really is biased against Luka's MVP candidacy. Just not sure if it's because voters hated Slovenia or Texas.

Yup, and instead of just an imaginary healthy Embiid, you forgot a younger LeBron, a jumpier KD, a this-year Tatum with last year stats, and a Steph with his previous supporting cast... So top 10 is on the optimistic side

Either way - Luka isn’t the MVP or the best player on earth yet-

Luka is 25 - he will get his time at least one of these titles at some point . No one doubts this -

Luka being a series MVP candidate 5 times in a row before he's turned 26 is pretty crazy. If he patches his defense, he'll get at least one MVP

[AleksandarN]

MUCH more points scored, more assists, more steals, 9 less wins BUT overall with a far worse team around this especially if you consider pre-trade Mavs and all the major injuries they had (Kyrie in particular).

And spare me the advanced stats, Joker is a center while Luka is a guard, of course that he will always be a more efficient scorer just by the lesser degree of difficulty of the shots a center takes comparing to a guard.

Luka with a higher usage rate with the ball stuck to hands twice as long. Jokic gets his team more involved than Luka does earlier in the shot clock. Plays better defense and commands his unit on both sides of floor by calling out plays and defensive strategies. So yes jokic has been more impactful. This is without using “advanced stats” which I could have used quite easily.

P.S. since you brought up Luka having more assists than Jokic Luka has more turnovers than Jokic by a larger margin compared to assists. Funny you didn’t bring that up.

to be fair, you cannot only looking at turnovers to assists when we are talking about a league leading 34ppg scorer. They have very comparable TOV%.

TOV% is an advanced stat which the person I was replying to doesn’t want advanced stats to be brought up. Also turnovers impact games. Less turnovers less possessions lost. You could say Luka has more turnovers because he is more ball dominant which then leads to my point on how Jokic is more impactful because Jokic gets his teammates more involved by holding on to the ball less.

[yannisk]

Jokic is the mvp he ticks all the boxes, he has great stats and advanced stats, team record. The fact he did not win mvp and then went and won the championship in a dominant fashion cements his case since he avoids the dreaded voter fatigue. The last factor should not really matter but unfortunately it does.

Doncic could have an equally strong case if his team was top 3. Since his team is in play in territory he has no case, he should not be mentioned at all.

Tatum was pushed a bit from the media that are looking for the next American mvp. In a way he is the opposite case than Doncic, his team has the best regular season, but in a year of amazing stats, his stats are just very good.

SGA has stats/advanced stats and his team exceeded expectations, he should not be far behind Jokic, but he is since there was not enough narrative about him and his team. Unfortunate in a way that media were not ready for him. I wonder if he was form US and not Canada if it would make a difference for the media

Giannis seems that he does not exist, one excuse is that Bucks were expected to be stronger. He is having a great season stat wise, his team is second in the east. It does not seem to matter, if he does not win another ring or change city he is now the boring choice that nobody wants to talk about.

I''ll mention also Embiid, obviously not qualified, but he was having a fantastic mvp level season before injury

[Bob8]

Luka with a higher usage rate with the ball stuck to hands twice as long. Jokic gets his team more involved than Luka does earlier in the shot clock. Plays better defense and commands his unit on both sides of floor by calling out plays and defensive strategies. So yes jokic has been more impactful. This is without using “advanced stats” which I could have used quite easily.

P.S. since you brought up Luka having more assists than Jokic Luka has more turnovers than Jokic by a larger margin compared to assists. Funny you didn’t bring that up.

to be fair, you cannot only looking at turnovers to assists when we are talking about a league leading 34ppg scorer. They have very comparable TOV%.

TOV% is an advanced stat which the person I was replying to doesn’t want advanced stats to be brought up. Also turnovers impact games. Less turnovers less possessions lost. You could say Luka has more turnovers because he is more ball dominant which then leads to my point on how Jokic is more impactful because Jokic gets his teammates more involved by holding on to the ball less.

It would look very funny, if C was holding the ball as much as Luka, even bringing it over half court line. Jokic might be better in almost everything, but ball handling is probably not his best skill.

About TOV, people will need to decide, if Luka is holding the ball nonstop or not, because Mavs are pretty good in TOV, better than Denver. It looks to me that Luka is not hurting his team there.

Jokic will win MVP easily, I don't think we should exaggerate everything.