OKC Thunder Trades and Transaction Thread

[Devilanche]

i'm reticent at best when it comes to pairing chet with another big, even one as talented as hartenstein. and this acquisition means that this will occur something like 5-10 minutes or more per game.

but i have to get props to sam presti. the nba is a talent league and talent usually trumps all. given what i imagine his constraints were (no big 2026-27 salary additions), hartenstein may have been the best or close to the best talent he could have added in the summer to this group. i like the idea of adding talent and then figuring out, even if i don't like the idea of chet being neutered with a big man next to him specifically. hartenstein has been blowing up aio metrics for years now and is probably a lot better than his boxscore numbers would indicate. i'm not sure who our starting pf is but swapping out giddey for caruso and hartenstein is about as good as it gets for an offseason of work.

This is exactly where I'm at right now. Fit is imperfect and curious about the minutes distribution as we all are. Ready to rationalize though as I agree Hart is a great role player and I would rather they add imperfect talent than none at all. As you mentioned he has always been an adv stats darling.

Neither starting nor coming off the bench would surprise me for Hart but I think a reasonable minutes breakdown might look as follows:

Chet - 25-35 mpg

Hartenstein - 15-30 mpg

Chet with Hartenstein - 7-20mpg

(All depending on matchups)

I'd guess there's a 60% chance he actually starts because I think they're mostly going to close with Chet at the 5 and they'll need to play him a certain amount to not cause any rift

If we count on 28-30 mins for IH and 30-32 mins for Chet that’s only 14 mins a game where there’s overlap.

Might not be a fit from the start and the team need to adjust but realistically in terms of asset cost, IH was the most available and impact wise he’s probably the top end of the available/realistic options.

If we trust that the the players are talented and the coach is talented , we should be able to vary our playstyle based on who’s playing. Rest of roster is kind of plug and play in terms of skill set

[Devilanche]

Option A: Hartenstein is the starting center and OKC has abandoned the 5-out idea and they improved drastically.

Option B-Chet is still the starting center, OKC destroyed their floor stretching ability with Hartenstein, who makes Giddey look like a Curry, and OKC got worse this off-season.

If we're just talking about space and not ability as a shooter between Giddey/Hart I think there's still going to be plenty of driving lanes in the minutes Chet/Hart play together. Hart has range out to the elbows at least and does good work on the short roll either with the floater or extra pass. Also plenty of teams wisened up by guarding Giddey with their center anyway. There's even a (non-zero) chance Hart could extend out to 3 with our squad in the long term.

You can also space the floor by moving on the court when you don’t have the ball and IHart seems to be decent at this.

IHart took 3s before and he probably can do it at similar level to Giddey if he’s open but not sure if we want him that far from the basket for that long.

[Dadouv47]

Back to topic .

Our clear weakness is a bench scorer ?
I do think we will let the guys play it out and figure it out at trade deadline in case it’s a big weakness.

I still think the lack of 4 is our biggest weakness but other than for sure not having a pure scorer coming off the bench could be a problem. Wiggins, Caruso and Cason can't create their own shot or are not great at it.

[Devilanche]

only exciting one is the LAC swap.

I'm afraid the Jazz pick will never convey

That draft will be deep. There is real possibility Presti could draft excellent young player, someone who could contribute from day 1.

Caruso is the only pending FA. Will Presti let him walk next year for a rookie or is Presti still trying to put a contender together for this season? If Presti doesn’t do something with those picks soon they’ll be worthless. What good is four picks when you only have one roster spot? Every other GM knows that as well and hopes Presti holds on to them and is forced to use them without the ability to sign the player or give them away for 2nd round picks in the future.

Probably Dieng will be traded next summer. Maybe even Kenrich. Those picks will not be worthless. I believe he will either trade to climb in draft or he will just use two picks and trade others for future picks.

If we have 4 picks it’s probably 3 at most will convey and we can be doing the following
- trade one first before trade deadline
- use 1 pick to move up at the draft
- trade 1 pick for a future first at the draft
- draft and stash one of the Europeans.

There’s always options. So long as we don’t have 6-10 picks in the same draft between first and second round.

[Devilanche]

Back to topic .

Our clear weakness is a bench scorer ?
I do think we will let the guys play it out and figure it out at trade deadline in case it’s a big weakness.

I still think the lack of 4 is our biggest weakness but other than for sure not having a pure scorer coming off the bench could be a problem. Wiggins, Caruso and Cason can't create their own shot or are not great at it.

I think getting a 4 now might get in the way of getting Chet/IHart to work out the fit before playoffs.
And realistically we will have a guard somewhere playing small ball 4 or Dieng/Kenrich filling in as well.

Yea not sure where the self creation coming from amongst the bench guys.

[Big nick]

Option A: Hartenstein is the starting center and OKC has abandoned the 5-out idea and they improved drastically.

Option B-Chet is still the starting center, OKC destroyed their floor stretching ability with Hartenstein, who makes Giddey look like a Curry, and OKC got worse this off-season.

Kizz can't you say the same if we would have drafted lively like you really wanted to.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Option A: Hartenstein is the starting center and OKC has abandoned the 5-out idea and they improved drastically.

Option B-Chet is still the starting center, OKC destroyed their floor stretching ability with Hartenstein, who makes Giddey look like a Curry, and OKC got worse this off-season.

Kizz can't you say the same if we would have drafted lively like you really wanted to.

Drafting Lively would have been Presti understanding he needed a legitimate center a year ago and Chet, theoretically, would have been the PF. OKC would have been in the Finals and perhaps be hanging a banner in a few months. Yes, the same applies...however, why did some random idiot on the internet know more about the Thunder and their needs than the GM? That is the question everyone who supports Presti needs to ask themselves. How did that arrogant, egotistical, loudmouth Kizz know what OKC needed, how to address it and solve the problem before it manifested itself in Dallas dominating a second round series and Presti had no clue it was coming in advance when he could have made adjustments to prevent it?

[Devilanche]

Option A: Hartenstein is the starting center and OKC has abandoned the 5-out idea and they improved drastically.

Option B-Chet is still the starting center, OKC destroyed their floor stretching ability with Hartenstein, who makes Giddey look like a Curry, and OKC got worse this off-season.

Kizz can't you say the same if we would have drafted lively like you really wanted to.

Minutes distribution and getting to work out on the court will be somewhat different.

Lively would have his minutes increased bit by bit and he would have played as backup C first in a season where expectation is lower.

iHart will probably expect around 24 mins minimum from the start .

[slick_watts]

it's a small sample but chet averaged 5.2 blocks per 100 possessions when sharing the court with jaylin williams (only 102 minutes, reg season + playoffs). he was alright on offense too.

[Kizz Fastfists]

it's a small sample but chet averaged 5.2 blocks per 100 possessions when sharing the court with jaylin williams (only 102 minutes, reg season + playoffs). he was alright on offense too.

You don't hurt Chet's defense pairing him with another big, and letting him be the help defender, especially an additional big that improves rebounding and shot blocking/altering capabilities. You also make it easier on your guards because they can be more aggressive in trying to force turnovers without being as concerned about someone getting passed them. On offense you give the team a legitimate threat in the paint, Hartenstein shot 71% within 3 feet of the basket and 57% from 3-10 feet. Only Muscala and Lindy shot that well from 3-10 feet last year, and their volume makes their numbers irrelevant. They now have a legitimate player to use in P&R as the pick/roll/pop player. Over 90% of Hartenstein's shots were within 10 ft of the basket last year and that should be the same this year. You could argue that the 71% within 3 feet is unimpressive compared to the rest of the team, but that is because SGA, Cason, Chet and Jalen are monster finishers.

On offense, it puts someone in the paint more, but that doesn't hurt the driving ability of SGA and others, because of the defender steps out off Hartenstein you can feed him the ball for an easy bucket or he can kick it out to a player open from action on the perimeter that led to the drive. Either way, it creates more offensive opportunities IF they abandon the 5-out scheme. The 5-out scheme was great as a low talent small team. It should have been killed off last year when the talent level exceeded needing a gimmick offense. Keep the guard screens on the perimeter that they have been developing as part of the offense for years, but also have an inside presence. Similar to what GS did with guys like Bogut and Zaza. Everyone got so obsessed with that small ball lineup that was matchup specific that they forget that GS had multiple quality big men in Bogut, Speights and David Lee, along with Barnes at 6'8 and Draymond as a versatile small ball big man.

People have accused Presti of attempting to imitate the Warriors, and to some extent that was true with the guard screens creating open 3s, etc. Hartenstein as the starting center and Chet as the PF actually pushes more into that. A legitimate center, Chet in the Barnes/KD role, JDub in the Draymond role, SGA as Steph and Dort/Caruso pretending they are Klay. Who gets to play Iggy? Cason? Topic? Joe? Wiggins? A player yet to be acquired?

[slick_watts]

You don't hurt Chet's defense pairing him with another big, and letting him be the help defender, especially an additional big that improves rebounding and shot blocking/altering capabilities.

i'm in "wait and see" mode on these things. chet is such a unique player both from a pure production perspective and obviously from a physical perspective that i think it's incorrect to be overly dogmatic on either side of this argument. i thought chet had one of the best rookie seasons in the last two decades playing primarily center in a role on offense that will necessarily change if he shares the court with a non-perimeter big, but i'm not so closed off to think it cannot also be successful.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Back to topic .

Our clear weakness is a bench scorer ?
I do think we will let the guys play it out and figure it out at trade deadline in case it’s a big weakness.

I still think the lack of 4 is our biggest weakness but other than for sure not having a pure scorer coming off the bench could be a problem. Wiggins, Caruso and Cason can't create their own shot or are not great at it.

With $8M room exception left there are still a few options that could be a scorer off the bench. Buddy Hield, Tyus Jones and Kyle Lowry are all interesting. Let's play a hypothetical. Tyus Jones agrees to sign for the room MLE. That still leaves a hole in the big man rotation, but it creates more guard depth. Orlando has way too many big men to find playing time for them all, so perhaps a trade along the lines of Kenrich and Cason for WCJ. I know, Cason is a good player. Tyus Jones as the backup PG, with Caruso capable of playing some PG and SGA, JDub and Chet are still your primary ball handlers then you have Topic as you backup, or maybe starting, PG in the near future.

Today, Jones > Cason and WCJ > Kenrich. OKC improves two more roster spots with WCJ replacing Jaylin as the first big off the bench and a very capable small ball 5. Another option would be to pay up for Lauri after signing Tyrus, because you could make Dort's salary the centerpiece for matching plus picks. Caruso then becomes the starting SG and you have Tyrus, Cason, Joe, Wiggins and Dillon Jones off the bench for your 1-3. Lauri is your 6th man. That gives you a big time scorer off the bench. I don't care if you lose him after one year, because banners are forever, although they realistically could resign him then trade him after two years for future draft picks, as the supply runs out and the team will need replenishing of cheap depth and given that Hartenstein is only a two year deal they could potentially keep Lauri and find a different option at center or move Chet back there if he becomes a capable banger in the paint. If winning a championship yields significant financial rewards then ownership might suddenly not care about the tax.

[bbms]

hartenstein's contract structure flexibility allows the thunder to assess chet's positional development on a season to season basis

for 2024/25 matchups like timberwolves are not so nightmarish as in 23/24.

[Xatticus]

Option A: Hartenstein is the starting center and OKC has abandoned the 5-out idea and they improved drastically.

Option B-Chet is still the starting center, OKC destroyed their floor stretching ability with Hartenstein, who makes Giddey look like a Curry, and OKC got worse this off-season.

Kizz can't you say the same if we would have drafted lively like you really wanted to.

Lively isn't the same player in OKC as he is in Dallas. Luka can get far more out of offensively limited teammates than anyone on our roster and Lively certainly fits into that category. This is the next step in development for our creators and hopefully Daigneault utilizes Hartenstein in such actions often this year. Chet's screening was rather poor last year and that really limited our ability to do much more than pick-and-pops as we didn't have anyone else with the size to roll to the basket.

I'm actually quite interested in seeing how Cason works with Hartenstein this year. He didn't initiate much, but I recall someone trying to trap him in the corner after a Jaylin screen and he dropped a perfectly timed and placed pocket pass for an easy finish. I really think there are some point guard skills in Cason's game. He just needs reps.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I really think there are some point guard skills in Cason's game. He just needs reps.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The real question is if OKC should be waiting on Cason to develop or if they should be looking for a better, this year, a veteran PG they can sign with their remaining $8M and perhaps use Cason in a trade for another win now big man?

Topic will be a better playmaker when he hits the court, even if we assume that isn't until next year than Cason. So long-term they have a very good PG in terms of passing and playmaking. Player with Topic's shooting profile have a strong history of getting significantly better at spot up 3pt shooting, which is his only offensive weakness at this point.

Should OKC be trying to maximize seasons or should they be trying to develop players? It is very hard to do both effectively. If Cason develops into a starting quality PG then he is gone in the '27 off-season anyway. So you have the opportunity to add a currently better PG, i.e. Tyus Jones, and trade Cason with Dieng and/or Kenrich along with some draft picks to improve your big man rotation and upgrade the team in two rotation spots or you can wait for Cason to develop and maybe reach in 2-3 seasons the level you could hit this year.

There are only five teams left with cap space and there are still a few teams that will likely try to dump contracts into space to avoid some apron penalties which will use a chunk of the available space. OKC is still in a good position to land any of the remaining FAs with their room exception if they choose. There are a handful of quality players still out there like Tyus Jones, Buddy Hield, Lonnie Walker, Dinwiddie, Lowry and Miles Bridges. Presti could be done or he could be working on figuring out the exact trade price for a player he likes, i.e. WCJ or Lauri and working on a backup plan for whatever rotation player(s) are used in the trade.

[getrichordie]

I really think there are some point guard skills in Cason's game. He just needs reps.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The real question is if OKC should be waiting on Cason to develop or if they should be looking for a better, this year, a veteran PG they can sign with their remaining $8M and perhaps use Cason in a trade for another win now big man?

I don't think the Thunder have a real need to develop Cason's passing. Wallace is already savvy enough as a player, that I'd feel comfortable with him running some P&R, initiating sets, etc. All Wallace needs to do is make the simple, right play on offense and he's shown he's capable of excelling in that role. I'd be more worried about getting Dieng real NBA reps and continuing to grow Jalen Williams' on-ball game at this juncture.

Topic will be a better playmaker when he hits the court, even if we assume that isn't until next year than Cason. So long-term they have a very good PG in terms of passing and playmaking. Player with Topic's shooting profile have a strong history of getting significantly better at spot up 3pt shooting, which is his only offensive weakness at this point.

I personally don't know what to think of Topic and how his game will translate to the NBA. He's big and crafty enough and certainly has some passing chops, but I do wonder how his quickness, strength, and shooting ultimately fairs over the next 2-3 years. Right now, I look at Shai and Jalen as one and two in terms of ball-handling responsibilities. One of Topic/Dieng/Wallace can be that go-to third ball-handler that can take some of the offensive load off of Shai and Jalen as needed.

Should OKC be trying to maximize seasons or should they be trying to develop players? It is very hard to do both effectively. If Cason develops into a starting quality PG then he is gone in the '27 off-season anyway. So you have the opportunity to add a currently better PG, i.e. Tyus Jones, and trade Cason with Dieng and/or Kenrich along with some draft picks to improve your big man rotation and upgrade the team in two rotation spots or you can wait for Cason to develop and maybe reach in 2-3 seasons the level you could hit this year.

I think the Thunder are content to find that happy medium between "maximizing a season" and developing players. The desired result is a consistent YOY growth that is sustainable for a long period of time. Presti is trying to build a new, modern type of dynasty. He isn't setting his sights on just one title. He's setting his sights on multiple. He's not going to all-in only to not have another chance the next year or the next, etc., despite the last iteration of a serious Thunder team failing to achieve a title or even multiple Finals appearances.

I like to think about any given team's production/developmental trajectory like a stock. For example, the Phoenix Suns' stock would look extremely volatile if you were looking at a 20-year chart. On the other hand, if you look at the Thunder's chart since it's inception (16 years ago), it would look less volatile. That's largely due to the careful way Presti has designed this team.

Well, Presti is trying to trump previous success, of course. He wants this team be basically the most sustainable one possible. He's found his core pieces. He's found some supportive pieces. And in order for all of this work, you gotta have a good, tried and true developmental pipeline due to the nature of the newest CBA. This is just a long way of me saying that I think it's not a good idea to start replacing young and seemingly budding talent such as Wallace, or even Dieng for that matter, with veterans unless you really believe that's the piece that is just going to put you over the top or allow you to truly upgrade a certain position (i.e. Harteinstein/JayWill.

There are only five teams left with cap space and there are still a few teams that will likely try to dump contracts into space to avoid some apron penalties which will use a chunk of the available space. OKC is still in a good position to land any of the remaining FAs with their room exception if they choose. There are a handful of quality players still out there like Tyus Jones, Buddy Hield, Lonnie Walker, Dinwiddie, Lowry and Miles Bridges. Presti could be done or he could be working on figuring out the exact trade price for a player he likes, i.e. WCJ or Lauri and working on a backup plan for whatever rotation player(s) are used in the trade.

Presti isn't touching Bridges with a ten-foot pole for obvious reasons. And I don't think anymore legitimate veteran pieces get added. Maybe he'll get another Bertans situation started where he takes on bad money for trade assets in return, but I do not see him choking off the developmental pipeline right now. The Thunder are nowhere near the position to do that in Presti's mind. He's still got pieces to find and in order to find them, they have to play. An analysis has to be made. Hard to do that when a massive amount of playing time is going to get swallowed up everytime he adds a Caruso or Hartenstein. For example, you are most likely about to see Jaylin Williams' minutes and Kenrich Williams' minutes go way down next year if they stay due to the addition of Hartenstein.

[Kizz Fastfists]

An analysis has to be made. Hard to do that when a massive amount of playing time is going to get swallowed up everytime he adds a Caruso or Hartenstein. For example, you are most likely about to see Jaylin Williams' minutes and Kenrich Williams' minutes go way down next year if they stay due to the addition of Hartenstein.[/b]

There are 240 minutes a game to fill on the floor. Let's use last year as a baseline.

PG: SGA 34 and Cason 21
SG Dort 28 and Joe 19
SF Giddey 25 and Wiggins 16
PF JDub 31 and Kenrich 15
C Chet 29 and Jaylin 13

I'm ignoring the lesser players like Hayward (17), Micic (12), Dieng (11) and Mann (9) due to their limited games played. The top 10 are sitting at 221 out of 240. Let's assume that Hartenstein takes Giddey's 25 and 3 of the extra 19 minutes. Caruso takes the 15 from Kenrich and 10 of the remaining 14 to get to 25 minutes. That leaves 9 minutes unaccounted for. Now you have the option to do a consolidation trade to turn Kenrich, Deing and Cason into WCJ. You know what you have in Jaylin. You take WCJ and upgrade that significantly. You can take Jaylin's 13 minutes and the remaining 9 and give them WCJ and the only thing you are doing is upgrading your roster. This is assuming you have a deal to sign Tyus Jones for the room mid-level and give him the 21 minutes Cason was going to get. Now you have upgraded two positions and increased you chance of a championship over the next two years.

WCJ is going to make $12M this year and $11M next year, which doesn't effect the ability to keep your roster together. Jones would make $8M this year and and $9M next year, which again has no effect on keeping the team fully intact next year. I'm assuming Caruso will be extended, but if they plan on letting him walk after a year, like was done with KMart, you might not even have a cap crunch when WCJ hits FA and can extend him with no issues. You still have Jaylin as emergency big man depth. You the one remaining spot with a vet minimum that you know can be reliable. You haven't hurt your chances of developing anyone and have increased your championship potential. Next year you worry about minutes for Topic in addition to figuring out if you should move one of Joe or Wiggins, which is already going to be a question, given the numbers crunch on roster spots and playing time. You still have enough draft picks to add developmental players who get playing time when there are injuries along with g-league time to develop into potential rotational players. If Cason develops into a starting level player you probably lose him a year after you would lose Jones anyway, assuming you don't resign him, and your dependence on Topic being the player you need him to be doesn't chance. You might not be able to afford WCJ, but you have picks to find a developmental big to replace him. It's not like finding a cheap player of the quality of Kenrich is an issue so at worst you end up back where you started. Jaylin isn't going to develop enough to price himself out of OKC.

You would rather trade two years of guaranteed contending for the potential of never contending based on the fact that Cason might develop and then you lose him anyway with potentially never having a window of legitimate contention? You take your two year shot and then worry about the '26-'27 season when it gets here and hope you can keep everyone knowing that the worse case scenario is you end up back down to where you are today if you failed to develop anyone and can't use your MLE to replace WCJ with anything better than Jaylin. By then it is possible Minny, Dallas and Denver have aged enough that OKC today would be better than them. That is also assuming no significant growth from Chet and JDub, which given their age continued progression is expected.

[RingoKid]

And given the nature of Adams tattoos i doubt he'll regret any of them. In Pasifikan context, they're spiritual armour and not permanent doodles on skin.

Your argument is that Adams won’t regret the doodles he has because he’ll never grow enough brains to stop believing in superstitions, but others will grow new views and beliefs that will make them regret theirs? Interesting.

Wow... that is the most racist culturally insensitive thing I've read in a good while.

You should be banned for spouting such clear hate speech.

Tell me, would you so easily disparage the spritual beliefs of Native Americans ?

What makes you think you have any right to insult anyone's beliefs let alone a valued and much loved former thunder player ?

You're a racist piece of garbage that doesn't belong on this site!!!

[RingoKid]

"The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.
This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=334&p=114112300#p114112300 ."

I recieved this message today and was banned for "Hate Speech" yesterday.

So here's the thing. I'm done with this site and the snowflake woke cancel culture it promotes.

Have a nice life.

[slick_watts]

You would rather trade two years of guaranteed contending for the potential of never contending based on the fact that Cason might develop and then you lose him anyway with potentially never having a window of legitimate contention?

am i misunderstanding what you wrote here? we are legitimate contenders, whether we make this fantasy trade or not. the potential of never contending? lol, yeah, wendell carter jr. is the linchpin we're hanging all our hopes and dreams on. c'mon man.