Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
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Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
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Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Rank these 3 players at their peaks and all-time (whether that means a career value perspective or not is up to you): Larry Bird, Steph Curry, Magic Johnson
Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Bird - Magic/Steph
Defense counts. Greatest shooter and passer on the board but Bird is the combination of both.
Defense counts. Greatest shooter and passer on the board but Bird is the combination of both.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
In terms of Peak:
Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)
Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.
Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)
Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Lamelo Anthony wrote:Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.
Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Colbinii wrote:In terms of Peak:
Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)
Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.
I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
SNPA wrote:Lamelo Anthony wrote:Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.
Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.
You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...
(Ditto for goat level passing)
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
wafflzgod wrote:Colbinii wrote:In terms of Peak:
Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)
Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.
I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me
Not at his offensive peak. Bird is nuetralish post 85-injury and 86 and a negative in 87.
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
OhayoKD wrote:SNPA wrote:Lamelo Anthony wrote:Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.
Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.
You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...
(Ditto for goat level passing)
Yes. I’m aware. Bird is better off ball. He is more dynamic. There’s more to the sport than just shooting, of which Bird is also GOAT level.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
SNPA wrote:OhayoKD wrote:SNPA wrote:Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.
You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...
(Ditto for goat level passing)
Yes. I’m aware. Bird is better off ball. He is more dynamic. There’s more to the sport than just shooting, of which Bird is also GOAT level.
So you have chosen death (by eye-test). I'll track when I next get a couple hours of time(maybe on monday?)
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
OhayoKD wrote:SNPA wrote:OhayoKD wrote:You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...
(Ditto for goat level passing)
Yes. I’m aware. Bird is better off ball. He is more dynamic. There’s more to the sport than just shooting, of which Bird is also GOAT level.
So you have chosen death (by eye-test). I'll track when I next get a couple hours of time(maybe on monday?)
Passing/Rebounding/Screening = eye test?
Curry has crazy gravity in the modern era. No one disputes that. How era portable that is…that’s disputable.
Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
OhayoKD wrote:wafflzgod wrote:Colbinii wrote:In terms of Peak:
Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)
Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.
I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me
Not at his offensive peak. Bird is nuetralish post 85-injury and 86 and a negative in 87.
I still would classify him as a strong plus in 85/86
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
wafflzgod wrote:OhayoKD wrote:wafflzgod wrote:
I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me
Not at his offensive peak. Bird is nuetralish post 85-injury and 86 and a negative in 87.
I still would classify him as a strong plus in 85/86
I disagree but we are doing a tracking project for 86 bird that includes the defensive component (you know where)

its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.
Bird > Magic > Curry
Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.
Bird > Magic > Curry
Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Found this interesting. Bird and Curry have played one minute difference in finals basketball. A single minute.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/larry-bird-3-pointers-made-per-game-in-the-finals
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=steph+curry%27s+3+point+percentage+in+the+finals
Stats favor Bird too, not bad for a playoff chocker.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/larry-bird-3-pointers-made-per-game-in-the-finals
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=steph+curry%27s+3+point+percentage+in+the+finals
Stats favor Bird too, not bad for a playoff chocker.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
migya wrote:Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.
Bird > Magic > Curry
Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.
You know Curry has a longer prime than Bird.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Colbinii wrote:migya wrote:Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.
Bird > Magic > Curry
Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.
You know Curry has a longer prime than Bird.
Curry has 9 "Superstar" seasons from 2014-2023, not including 2020 obviously.
Bird has 9 "Superstar" seasons from 1980-1988. I'm a bit lower on a Birds first 2 seasons but I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt.
I'd have 2013 and 2024 Curry ahead of any 1990-1992 season.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
migya wrote:Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.
Bird > Magic > Curry
Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.
Curry 2700+ career TS add, Bird 1000+ TS add...where is the prime advantage?
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Peaks I'd have:
'86 Bird
'87 Magic
'16, '17 or '21 Steph
For career though, Steph is above Bird and I am highly debating whether or not he should be above Magic too.
Bird is a guy who has really sunk after my reevaluations. Tremendous player when healthy but he simply had way too many Playoff injuries and then his prime was cut off quite early so longevity is lacking.
'86 Bird
'87 Magic
'16, '17 or '21 Steph
For career though, Steph is above Bird and I am highly debating whether or not he should be above Magic too.
Bird is a guy who has really sunk after my reevaluations. Tremendous player when healthy but he simply had way too many Playoff injuries and then his prime was cut off quite early so longevity is lacking.
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Re: Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic
Lamelo Anthony wrote:Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.
Bird was a bigger playoff dropper
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL