Bird vs. Steph vs. Magic

[wafflzgod]

Rank these 3 players at their peaks and all-time (whether that means a career value perspective or not is up to you): Larry Bird, Steph Curry, Magic Johnson

[SNPA]

Bird - Magic/Steph

Defense counts. Greatest shooter and passer on the board but Bird is the combination of both.

[Colbinii]

In terms of Peak:

Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)

Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.

[Lamelo Anthony]

Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.

[SNPA]

Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.

Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.

[wafflzgod]

In terms of Peak:

Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)

Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.

I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me

[OhayoKD]

Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.

Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.

You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...

(Ditto for goat level passing)

[OhayoKD]

In terms of Peak:

Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)

Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.

I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me

Not at his offensive peak. Bird is nuetralish post 85-injury and 86 and a negative in 87.

[SNPA]

Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.

Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.

You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...

(Ditto for goat level passing)

Yes. I’m aware. Bird is better off ball. He is more dynamic. There’s more to the sport than just shooting, of which Bird is also GOAT level.

[OhayoKD]

Off ball? Bird not only has gravity as a shooter he is a GOAT level passer, he sets screens and he rebounds. He is clearly the best off ball player of the bunch. Not to knock Steph’s brilliance as a three point shooter and gravity but all around he isn’t on Bird’s level off ball.

You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...

(Ditto for goat level passing)

Yes. I’m aware. Bird is better off ball. He is more dynamic. There’s more to the sport than just shooting, of which Bird is also GOAT level.

So you have chosen death (by eye-test). I'll track when I next get a couple hours of time(maybe on monday?)

[SNPA]

You know there is game footage available for both, right? It literally just takes one person pulling up larry bird and steph, tracking how many defenders are being affected and how many are being taken out off-ball, and this claim of yours gets emphatically refuted...

(Ditto for goat level passing)

Yes. I’m aware. Bird is better off ball. He is more dynamic. There’s more to the sport than just shooting, of which Bird is also GOAT level.

So you have chosen death (by eye-test). I'll track when I next get a couple hours of time(maybe on monday?)

Passing/Rebounding/Screening = eye test?

Curry has crazy gravity in the modern era. No one disputes that. How era portable that is…that’s disputable.

[wafflzgod]

In terms of Peak:

Steph = Magic (Top players who weren't either two-way Centers or LeBron/Jordan)
Bird (Next offensive tier down with Dirk/Kobe/Wade)

Overall: All of them are within the 8-14 range for me in one tier.

I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me

Not at his offensive peak. Bird is nuetralish post 85-injury and 86 and a negative in 87.

I still would classify him as a strong plus in 85/86

[OhayoKD]

I agree Bird is a step down on offense from Steph/Magic, but I think he is also providing substantially more defensive value than either of them, which makes it an interesting convo to me

Not at his offensive peak. Bird is nuetralish post 85-injury and 86 and a negative in 87.

I still would classify him as a strong plus in 85/86

I disagree but we are doing a tracking project for 86 bird that includes the defensive component (you know where) You should pull up.

[migya]

Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.

Bird > Magic > Curry

Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.

[SNPA]

Found this interesting. Bird and Curry have played one minute difference in finals basketball. A single minute.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/larry-bird-3-pointers-made-per-game-in-the-finals

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=steph+curry%27s+3+point+percentage+in+the+finals

Stats favor Bird too, not bad for a playoff chocker.

[Colbinii]

Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.

Bird > Magic > Curry

Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.

You know Curry has a longer prime than Bird.

[Colbinii]

Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.

Bird > Magic > Curry

Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.

You know Curry has a longer prime than Bird.

Curry has 9 "Superstar" seasons from 2014-2023, not including 2020 obviously.

Bird has 9 "Superstar" seasons from 1980-1988. I'm a bit lower on a Birds first 2 seasons but I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'd have 2013 and 2024 Curry ahead of any 1990-1992 season.

[cpower]

Alt the can be well compared because their teams were built well around them. Bird does more than just scoring and passing than the other two. His defense and rebounding, as well as intangibles, are better.

Bird > Magic > Curry

Don't know for peaks only but career:
Bird #9, Magic #10, Curry not top 20 yet, almost there, just hasn't had a long enough prime. He'd be top 15 with same level for another three years.

Curry 2700+ career TS add, Bird 1000+ TS add...where is the prime advantage?

[ardee]

Peaks I'd have:

'86 Bird
'87 Magic
'16, '17 or '21 Steph

For career though, Steph is above Bird and I am highly debating whether or not he should be above Magic too.

Bird is a guy who has really sunk after my reevaluations. Tremendous player when healthy but he simply had way too many Playoff injuries and then his prime was cut off quite early so longevity is lacking.

[OhayoKD]

Magic easily the best. Primary ball handler and led better offenses with different casts and in different systems. Bird is last. Not as good as a shooter or off-ball player as Steph, overrated defender, biggest playoff dropper.

Bird was a bigger playoff dropper