Breaking: Rogers Aquires Bell Stake In MLSE

[Scase]

We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season.

Yes, this is what many of the complainers would like to have happen. So I am not sure what they are complaining about.

The "complainers" wanted this to happen for the Wemby draft. Instead we started the tank in a crappy draft when we didn't even have control of our own pick.

Trust me, there's plenty of complaining to do when the end results are what we've seen the past few years. Just hoping Masai pulls more of the OG/Mcdaniels type trades and hits home runs on most of his draft picks as a throwback to when he was actually earning his salary lol.

Yeah, this is right in the same vein as the "This is what the tankers wanted" at the end of last season when we didn't even have a pick.

[Fairview4Life]

Yes, this is what many of the complainers would like to have happen. So I am not sure what they are complaining about.

The "complainers" wanted this to happen for the Wemby draft. Instead we started the tank in a crappy draft when we didn't even have control of our own pick.

Trust me, there's plenty of complaining to do when the end results are what we've seen the past few years. Just hoping Masai pulls more of the OG/Mcdaniels type trades and hits home runs on most of his draft picks as a throwback to when he was actually earning his salary lol.

Yeah, this is right in the same vein as the "This is what the tankers wanted" at the end of last season when we didn't even have a pick.

...did you skip the quote I was replying to? the dude predicted this:

"We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season."

Isn't that exactly what tankers want? Painful seasons until we get some lottery luck? You tank until you hit. Or have I been reading a different message board.

[Scase]

The "complainers" wanted this to happen for the Wemby draft. Instead we started the tank in a crappy draft when we didn't even have control of our own pick.

Trust me, there's plenty of complaining to do when the end results are what we've seen the past few years. Just hoping Masai pulls more of the OG/Mcdaniels type trades and hits home runs on most of his draft picks as a throwback to when he was actually earning his salary lol.

Yeah, this is right in the same vein as the "This is what the tankers wanted" at the end of last season when we didn't even have a pick.

...did you skip the quote I was replying to? the dude predicted this:

"We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season."

Isn't that exactly what tankers want? Painful seasons until we get some lottery luck? You tank until you hit. Or have I been reading a different message board.

Yes, and the point is that the upcoming season, barring some lengthy injuries, is unlikely to result in a lotto pick high enough to move the needle.

So maybe you have been reading a different board, cause no one that is "pro tank" is asking for a team that will be fighting for a play in appearance.

[Fairview4Life]

Yeah, this is right in the same vein as the "This is what the tankers wanted" at the end of last season when we didn't even have a pick.

...did you skip the quote I was replying to? the dude predicted this:

"We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season."

Isn't that exactly what tankers want? Painful seasons until we get some lottery luck? You tank until you hit. Or have I been reading a different message board.

Yes, and the point is that the upcoming season, barring some lengthy injuries, is unlikely to result in a lotto pick high enough to move the needle.

So maybe you have been reading a different board, cause no one that is "pro tank" is asking for a team that will be fighting for a play in appearance.

We just went through a painful season - 7th worst record in the league - and expect more painful seasons if we don't luck out in the lottery is not "fighting for a play in appearance". What are you talking about? He is saying we're bad and expect to be bad for the foreseeable future unless we get lucky in the lottery. If you disagree with that assessment, great. But I am replying to the guy who is saying we're bad and will be bad.

[Randle McMurphy]

Some of you forget how bad things were pre-Masai.

18 years....1 playoff series win....6 playoff series....4 seasons over .500
VS
11 years....9 playoff wins...16 playoff series....2 seasons under .500 with one being in Tampa
Oh...and a Championship

Better hope Bobby stays and learned something

I remember it quite clearly which is why I’m able to recognize a front office purposely treadmilling when I see it.

[Scase]

...did you skip the quote I was replying to? the dude predicted this:

"We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season."

Isn't that exactly what tankers want? Painful seasons until we get some lottery luck? You tank until you hit. Or have I been reading a different message board.

Yes, and the point is that the upcoming season, barring some lengthy injuries, is unlikely to result in a lotto pick high enough to move the needle.

So maybe you have been reading a different board, cause no one that is "pro tank" is asking for a team that will be fighting for a play in appearance.

We just went through a painful season - 7th worst record in the league - and expect more painful seasons if we don't luck out in the lottery is not "fighting for a play in appearance". What are you talking about? He is saying we're bad and expect to be bad for the foreseeable future unless we get lucky in the lottery. If you disagree with that assessment, great. But I am replying to the guy who is saying we're bad and will be bad.

Yeah bad as in treadmill, not bad as in 20 wins and a top 5 pick. There are layers to this.

Luck out via the lottery means to actually luck into a high pick. The team is projected to win 30-35 games, which based on guesses of the rest of the league puts them squarely in range of the play in. The hope most people have is some absurd luck like the Hawks pulled off. Bottoming out in wins isn't the only way a season is painful, treadmilling is arguably way more painful than an outright bad team.

A bottom 5 team to the people who wish to tank, is not painful, it is the plan. A play in appearance is painful to them. Again, layers.

[ciueli]

The "complainers" wanted this to happen for the Wemby draft. Instead we started the tank in a crappy draft when we didn't even have control of our own pick.

Trust me, there's plenty of complaining to do when the end results are what we've seen the past few years. Just hoping Masai pulls more of the OG/Mcdaniels type trades and hits home runs on most of his draft picks as a throwback to when he was actually earning his salary lol.

Yeah, this is right in the same vein as the "This is what the tankers wanted" at the end of last season when we didn't even have a pick.

...did you skip the quote I was replying to? the dude predicted this:

"We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season."

Isn't that exactly what tankers want? Painful seasons until we get some lottery luck? You tank until you hit. Or have I been reading a different message board.

The problem is we're getting the painful seasons without any of the real benefit. I'd rather really bottom out for at least one season, grab a top 5 pick, then make win now moves after that. But Masai can't even do it one season because of the pressure to make the playoffs now.

All that needed to be done was a) not do the Kelly Olynyk deal b) trade Jakob Poeltl to get Memphis' pick in the draft this year (even just a trade up from a lower pick would have been acceptable) c) play the rookies serious minutes from day 1 and we'd be looking at a 25 or fewer win team with a good chance at a top 5 pick, maybe even top 3 pick with lottery luck.

[Tor_Raps]

...did you skip the quote I was replying to? the dude predicted this:

"We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season."

Isn't that exactly what tankers want? Painful seasons until we get some lottery luck? You tank until you hit. Or have I been reading a different message board.

Yes, and the point is that the upcoming season, barring some lengthy injuries, is unlikely to result in a lotto pick high enough to move the needle.

So maybe you have been reading a different board, cause no one that is "pro tank" is asking for a team that will be fighting for a play in appearance.

We just went through a painful season - 7th worst record in the league - and expect more painful seasons if we don't luck out in the lottery is not "fighting for a play in appearance". What are you talking about? He is saying we're bad and expect to be bad for the foreseeable future unless we get lucky in the lottery. If you disagree with that assessment, great. But I am replying to the guy who is saying we're bad and will be bad.

We're going to be bad as in a bad franchise. Not bad enough to get the high pick we need because we're hanging onto vets like Poeltl/Brown/Olynyk but not good enough to be relevant because of the overall talent on the team.

We are the new Bulls/Wizards of the nba at the current moment. Hope that's clear lol.

[JB7]

The issue is, Masai isn't 2013-19 Masai right now, he's 2020-24 Masai. If the Raptors were to replace him, they'd be replacing a clearly inferior executive than the one who was a top 3 exec in the league prior to 2020. It's not like the Raptors are churning out 2nd round picks that turn into starters, or hitting on their mid/late 1st round picks anymore. They probably do require some type of shift in their front office (whether Masai or scouting) as their success rate in developing talent from 2013-19 vs today is night and day.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'm a Masai guy and am rooting for him to build this team back up. He might not get the chance to, but if that's the case then it would be far more justifiable to replace him now than it would have been a few years ago.

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

That's the whole problem, though, he's not really trying to build up the asset base, he's trying to get the team into the play-in and even the playoffs the next two seasons. If he's successful in this, it means weakening the asset base, not strengthening it as the team winds up drafting outside the lottery for the foreseeable future, not playing young players in real games in order to win now, and potentially even trading away future draft picks to fill more holes in the short term. The Kelly Olynyk trade is evidence of all three of those points I just made (trading picks to win now, veteran taking minutes from prospects, improving win/loss record that means worse draft position).

I'm not saying this approach can't work, it can if the right deal comes along or the right players are drafted with later picks, but it's a difficult plan to succeed with because it's harder to get star talent later in the draft and players who are ready to win now are more expensive than young players on rookie deals leaving less financial flexibility to fill out the starting lineup and bench.

2018-19: win chip
2019-20: maintain much of roster, outside of Kawhi & Green because Masai was positioning the team to have cap space to pursue Giannis if he became available.
2020-21: Covid year in Tampa, Giannis signs extension in Dec 2020 and Masai pivots to tank half way through the season and Raps get lucky with 4th pick and draft Barnes
2021-22: Probably the year everybody questions, whether Masai should have moved all his assets (Pascal, OG, & FVV) for picks and youth. This is a point of debate. Should Scottie's 1st year in the league be a complete **** show? I can see Masai's point in trying to have a relevant roster around a young potential star. But there is the problem of fit with Pascal.
2022-23: Looks like he was shopping Pascal & Fred around, with no real substantial returns, and ends up trading for Yak (team desperately needing a C). End of the season, Houston drops the bag on Fred's lap. Wise move for Masai not to match that offer.
2023-24: Unload's Pascal and OG for IQ, RJ & picks
2024-25: Starting with a base of Barnes, IQ, RJ, Dick, Yak, Ja'Kobe, and Raps have all their picks going into stronger upcoming drafts, along with Indy's pick.

Not a bad job considering Kawhi walked after winning the chip with the Raps, and Giannis resigned in Milwaukee.

[JB7]

The issue is, Masai isn't 2013-19 Masai right now, he's 2020-24 Masai. If the Raptors were to replace him, they'd be replacing a clearly inferior executive than the one who was a top 3 exec in the league prior to 2020. It's not like the Raptors are churning out 2nd round picks that turn into starters, or hitting on their mid/late 1st round picks anymore. They probably do require some type of shift in their front office (whether Masai or scouting) as their success rate in developing talent from 2013-19 vs today is night and day.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'm a Masai guy and am rooting for him to build this team back up. He might not get the chance to, but if that's the case then it would be far more justifiable to replace him now than it would have been a few years ago.

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

Sorry but this excuse doesn't fly any more.

No one was complaining about the stuff sent out to win a chip. People are complaining about the stuff sent out and the actions performed SINCE then.

We didn't lose last years pick because of the chip, we didn't lose FVV for nothing because of the chip, we didn't get a bad return on Siakam because of the chip, we didn't have multiple (and continued) declining seasons because of the chip, we didn't trade a pick for Ochai/KO because of the chip, we didn't re-sign KO because of the chip, we didn't pick up the option on a guy who JUST had knee surgery instead of trading him last year because of the chip.

The assets sent out are not why the team is where it's at, the unwillingness to move players at appropriate timings and doubling down on a flawed and low ceiling core is why the team is where it's at. Masai deserves credit for all the incredible work done pre chip, just as much as he deserves all the incredibly poor work done post chip.

Excuses for the bad moves is no different from chalking the good moves up to nothing more than luck.

Sometimes, the assets you have are worth more to the team keeping them, then what minimal return they would get back for them. Pascal was finally dealt because the team was not going to re-sign him. They most likely would have traded him earlier if they had a decent offer on the table.

[Chandan]

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

That's the whole problem, though, he's not really trying to build up the asset base, he's trying to get the team into the play-in and even the playoffs the next two seasons. If he's successful in this, it means weakening the asset base, not strengthening it as the team winds up drafting outside the lottery for the foreseeable future, not playing young players in real games in order to win now, and potentially even trading away future draft picks to fill more holes in the short term. The Kelly Olynyk trade is evidence of all three of those points I just made (trading picks to win now, veteran taking minutes from prospects, improving win/loss record that means worse draft position).

I'm not saying this approach can't work, it can if the right deal comes along or the right players are drafted with later picks, but it's a difficult plan to succeed with because it's harder to get star talent later in the draft and players who are ready to win now are more expensive than young players on rookie deals leaving less financial flexibility to fill out the starting lineup and bench.

2018-19: win chip
2019-20: maintain much of roster, outside of Kawhi & Green because Masai was positioning the team to have cap space to pursue Giannis if he became available.
2020-21: Covid year in Tampa, Giannis signs extension in Dec 2020 and Masai pivots to tank half way through the season and Raps get lucky with 4th pick and draft Barnes
2021-22: Probably the year everybody questions, whether Masai should have moved all his assets (Pascal, OG, & FVV) for picks and youth. This is a point of debate. Should Scottie's 1st year in the league be a complete **** show? I can see Masai's point in trying to have a relevant roster around a young potential star. But there is the problem of fit with Pascal.
2022-23: Looks like he was shopping Pascal & Fred around, with no real substantial returns, and ends up trading for Yak (team desperately needing a C). End of the season, Houston drops the bag on Fred's lap. Wise move for Masai not to match that offer.
2023-24: Unload's Pascal and OG for IQ, RJ & picks
2024-25: Starting with a base of Barnes, IQ, RJ, Dick, Yak, Ja'Kobe, and Raps have all their picks going into stronger upcoming drafts, along with Indy's pick.

Not a bad job considering Kawhi walked after winning the chip with the Raps, and Giannis resigned in Milwaukee.

Why is Masai misreading the entire situation with Giannas (whom he supposed to have a personal connection to) which lead to entire next 5 years down the drain not a blunder?

[Fairview4Life]

Yes, and the point is that the upcoming season, barring some lengthy injuries, is unlikely to result in a lotto pick high enough to move the needle.

So maybe you have been reading a different board, cause no one that is "pro tank" is asking for a team that will be fighting for a play in appearance.

We just went through a painful season - 7th worst record in the league - and expect more painful seasons if we don't luck out in the lottery is not "fighting for a play in appearance". What are you talking about? He is saying we're bad and expect to be bad for the foreseeable future unless we get lucky in the lottery. If you disagree with that assessment, great. But I am replying to the guy who is saying we're bad and will be bad.

We're going to be bad as in a bad franchise. Not bad enough to get the high pick we need because we're hanging onto vets like Poeltl/Brown/Olynyk but not good enough to be relevant because of the overall talent on the team.

We are the new Bulls/Wizards of the nba at the current moment. Hope that's clear lol.

Well good news then, the Wizards are complete trash and got the 2nd pick last year.

[Scase]

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

Sorry but this excuse doesn't fly any more.

No one was complaining about the stuff sent out to win a chip. People are complaining about the stuff sent out and the actions performed SINCE then.

We didn't lose last years pick because of the chip, we didn't lose FVV for nothing because of the chip, we didn't get a bad return on Siakam because of the chip, we didn't have multiple (and continued) declining seasons because of the chip, we didn't trade a pick for Ochai/KO because of the chip, we didn't re-sign KO because of the chip, we didn't pick up the option on a guy who JUST had knee surgery instead of trading him last year because of the chip.

The assets sent out are not why the team is where it's at, the unwillingness to move players at appropriate timings and doubling down on a flawed and low ceiling core is why the team is where it's at. Masai deserves credit for all the incredible work done pre chip, just as much as he deserves all the incredibly poor work done post chip.

Excuses for the bad moves is no different from chalking the good moves up to nothing more than luck.

Sometimes, the assets you have are worth more to the team keeping them, then what minimal return they would get back for them. Pascal was finally dealt because the team was not going to re-sign him. They most likely would have traded him earlier if they had a decent offer on the table.

Because for one, it's not always about the return, but rather what keeping a player results in situationally. And two, I find it extremely hard to believe that Siakam being traded with 2 years on his contract vs 3 months would not resulted in a better return.

And even if, number two was 100% accurate, then why continue to double down on that player and the core, by trying to retain FVV, and trading for Jak. Both cannot be true, because if they are, then that is just an obscene level of incompetence that exceeds even the biggest Masai haters expectations.

And that is the crux of the argument, it has been many many points of failure that have led us here, with all of them occurring post chip, and having essentially zero connection to the chip, or the assets moved.

If moving those assets 2 years prior, or at the last minute, both result in a middling team with a poor future, then why waste the time? If I have to commute to work and there's a 20 minute drive past a garbage dump, or a 2 hour drive past a garbage dump, there is zero reason to choose the latter.

[Chandan]

If moving those assets 2 years prior, or at the last minute, both result in a middling team with a poor future, then why waste the time? If I have to commute to work and there's a 20 minute drive past a garbage dump, or a 2 hour drive past a garbage dump, there is zero reason to choose the latter.

Sometimes the garbage's dad is a friend.

[Raps in 4]

That's the whole problem, though, he's not really trying to build up the asset base, he's trying to get the team into the play-in and even the playoffs the next two seasons. If he's successful in this, it means weakening the asset base, not strengthening it as the team winds up drafting outside the lottery for the foreseeable future, not playing young players in real games in order to win now, and potentially even trading away future draft picks to fill more holes in the short term. The Kelly Olynyk trade is evidence of all three of those points I just made (trading picks to win now, veteran taking minutes from prospects, improving win/loss record that means worse draft position).

I'm not saying this approach can't work, it can if the right deal comes along or the right players are drafted with later picks, but it's a difficult plan to succeed with because it's harder to get star talent later in the draft and players who are ready to win now are more expensive than young players on rookie deals leaving less financial flexibility to fill out the starting lineup and bench.

2018-19: win chip
2019-20: maintain much of roster, outside of Kawhi & Green because Masai was positioning the team to have cap space to pursue Giannis if he became available.
2020-21: Covid year in Tampa, Giannis signs extension in Dec 2020 and Masai pivots to tank half way through the season and Raps get lucky with 4th pick and draft Barnes
2021-22: Probably the year everybody questions, whether Masai should have moved all his assets (Pascal, OG, & FVV) for picks and youth. This is a point of debate. Should Scottie's 1st year in the league be a complete **** show? I can see Masai's point in trying to have a relevant roster around a young potential star. But there is the problem of fit with Pascal.
2022-23: Looks like he was shopping Pascal & Fred around, with no real substantial returns, and ends up trading for Yak (team desperately needing a C). End of the season, Houston drops the bag on Fred's lap. Wise move for Masai not to match that offer.
2023-24: Unload's Pascal and OG for IQ, RJ & picks
2024-25: Starting with a base of Barnes, IQ, RJ, Dick, Yak, Ja'Kobe, and Raps have all their picks going into stronger upcoming drafts, along with Indy's pick.

Not a bad job considering Kawhi walked after winning the chip with the Raps, and Giannis resigned in Milwaukee.

Why is Masai misreading the entire situation with Giannas (whom he supposed to have a personal connection to) which lead to entire next 5 years down the drain not a blunder?

It wasn't five years down the drain though.

Not tearing the team down after the championship made sense. They won 53 games the next year and were literally two possessions away from the ECF, and possibly finals after that. No sane GM would have blown that team up.

The year after that they tanked and drafted a blue chip prospect.

The year after that they wanted to see if that blue chip prospect would fit with their older core.

That's when the mistakes started to happen. When it was obvious that Scottie and Pascal/OG didn't fit, it was time to pull the plug and trade Pascal/OG/Fred. Instead Masai traded a FRP for Thad, and then another one for Yak, to try and make that team work. And then he let Fred walk for nothing and waited until Pascal and OG were expiring before trading them. Those were all catastrophically bad decisions. But it was only 2.5 seasons of bad decision making, not 5.

The whole waiting for Giannis thing didn't really hurt us.

[Dalek]

Having Rogers as the main boss is going to be skating on thin ice for Masai. It is a good time for Masai to move on. He is paid a lot and not producing and likely hurting the team. He did it for 13 years which is good enough.

Now the question is whether Rogers becomes like Dolan in NY and gets in the way too much. I do take hope that they see how Leon Rose has built that team up. We need Rogers hands off and give it to a former agent who can be a power broker or someone fresh who understands the players and game. Not some CBA expert like Bobby.

agent who became GM, for every leon rose, bob myers, there is rob pelinka, arm tellem
for ever cba nerd gm there are presti, morey and there are arthur korknosi (bulls) and many more
for every coach who became gm, you have brad stevens and also phil jackson

there is no one blueprint for a executive, coach etc

also considering leon rose is the bell of the ball right now, if not for brunson, mavs etc this would not be case
rose pre brunson drafted toppin 6th(also quickley), signed fournier, rose, burks, noel, kemba walker etc etc

There are many cases to be made for different types of GMs. I love what Nico Harrison has done in Dallas to build around Luka. He used to be a Nike guy. I give credit to Rose for assembling a team tailor made to fit Brunson and he opportunistically jumped on Brunson in the first place. I mean he joined the Knicks in 2020 and in three years he has a really good team that could be a contender in the East.

Raps under Bobby doesn't have a direction. Bringing in old guys to support the young players at the expense of picks. They don't have any premium franchise type and are built around throw aways from NY. Like NY wanted out on RJ and they were never going to pay Quick. Now we are paying a premium to both.

We need a person who can make tough decisions and has a philosophy that fits the modern game. Not some rehash of position less b-ball. An former agent is more business like which is needed here.

[WaltFrazier]

You knew there was imminent ownership change, a little sooner than expected. Overall, Jays (Rogers has been majority? owner since 2000) record hasn't been great but not terrible with them in charge. 2015 club was a legit Word Series contender, they just fell short. The 3 major sports leagues are quite different and require different styles. It all comes down to who their guys pick for GMs and their respective visions.

Yes the 2015 and 2016 jays were great but then Rogers replaced AA the guy who built those great teams with 2 clowns who have made the product terrible this year. The worry is not that they will replace Masai but that they'll bring in ineffectual people like Shapiro and Atkins.

[Raps in 4]

You knew there was imminent ownership change, a little sooner than expected. Overall, Jays (Rogers has been majority? owner since 2000) record hasn't been great but not terrible with them in charge. 2015 club was a legit Word Series contender, they just fell short. The 3 major sports leagues are quite different and require different styles. It all comes down to who their guys pick for GMs and their respective visions.

Yes the 2015 and 2016 jays were great but then Rogers replaced AA the guy who built those great teams with 2 clowns who have made the product terrible this year. The worry is not that they will replace Masai but that they'll bring in ineffectual people like Shapiro and Atkins.

Since 2000, when Rogers acquired the Jays, the team has made the playoffs 5* times. They won two playoff series during that span.

*One of those five times was during the 60-game COVID-shortened season when the team was barely hovering above .500 with a negative run differential and would have certainly missed the playoffs during a full length season.

And even when Ed lucked out into a good FO, he botched it by forcing them out.

People crying about the state of the Raptors right now either don't remember how difficult being a Blue Jays fan over the last 25 years has been, or they choose not to remember. It's comical to think that the family (now headed by the idiot son) who ran that dumpster fire for 25 years are somehow competent owners all of a sudden.

It's fine to decry the state of the Raptors right now (I actively complain about this team). But to think that Ed Rogers is this team's saviour is so deluded I can't believe the posts aren't made in jest.

[PushDaRock]

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

That's the whole problem, though, he's not really trying to build up the asset base, he's trying to get the team into the play-in and even the playoffs the next two seasons. If he's successful in this, it means weakening the asset base, not strengthening it as the team winds up drafting outside the lottery for the foreseeable future, not playing young players in real games in order to win now, and potentially even trading away future draft picks to fill more holes in the short term. The Kelly Olynyk trade is evidence of all three of those points I just made (trading picks to win now, veteran taking minutes from prospects, improving win/loss record that means worse draft position).

I'm not saying this approach can't work, it can if the right deal comes along or the right players are drafted with later picks, but it's a difficult plan to succeed with because it's harder to get star talent later in the draft and players who are ready to win now are more expensive than young players on rookie deals leaving less financial flexibility to fill out the starting lineup and bench.

2018-19: win chip
2019-20: maintain much of roster, outside of Kawhi & Green because Masai was positioning the team to have cap space to pursue Giannis if he became available.
2020-21: Covid year in Tampa, Giannis signs extension in Dec 2020 and Masai pivots to tank half way through the season and Raps get lucky with 4th pick and draft Barnes
2021-22: Probably the year everybody questions, whether Masai should have moved all his assets (Pascal, OG, & FVV) for picks and youth. This is a point of debate. Should Scottie's 1st year in the league be a complete **** show? I can see Masai's point in trying to have a relevant roster around a young potential star. But there is the problem of fit with Pascal.
2022-23: Looks like he was shopping Pascal & Fred around, with no real substantial returns, and ends up trading for Yak (team desperately needing a C). End of the season, Houston drops the bag on Fred's lap. Wise move for Masai not to match that offer.
2023-24: Unload's Pascal and OG for IQ, RJ & picks
2024-25: Starting with a base of Barnes, IQ, RJ, Dick, Yak, Ja'Kobe, and Raps have all their picks going into stronger upcoming drafts, along with Indy's pick.

Not a bad job considering Kawhi walked after winning the chip with the Raps, and Giannis resigned in Milwaukee.

That 21-22 team was projected to win 35.5 games before the season. If they had sucked as bad as projected, I think it would have been highly likely Masai would have pulled the plug, moved at least 2 of those guys and likely entered more of a rebuild. That team massive outperforming expectations is really what kept Masai more in that wait and see, give them a chance mode.

[HoopAndTheHarm]

All I hope is that they keep Ed Rogers as far away as possible from anything to do with the operations and decisions of any of the teams. A restraining order would be nice. lol
He thinks he's a sports guy. He desperately wants to be a sports guy. He's not a sports guy. He's clueless and any leagues where he's tried to interject himself have basically seen him as a joke and just ignore him and speak to Larry T.
I'm curious as to whether Keith Pelley survives after this deal is completed. It's widely presumed he was brought in to be the buffer between ownership and operations. With Rogers working its way toward 100% ownership (buying BCE out in 2025 with an option to purchase Kilmer's 25% in 2026), I'm betting Ed wants unfettered access to get his grubby little hands all over everything.