Pelly24 wrote:OhayoKD wrote:Pelly24 wrote:I kind of got this sense just thinking about the impact stats (BPM, ws/48)
BPM and WS/48 are not impact stats. Though I guess your reliance on them explains why you massively overrate guards.their two-way play
You do realize you are talking about 3 guards right? Neither Butler or Jordan or Wade are on the same scale defensively.and their ability to run an offense and close games out in the fourth quarter.
Jordan was not even running the bulls offense but alright.No other players besides I guess MJ and Wade were like that in my eyes. These are guys that are basically flawless.
If you disregard that they are below average at the most important aspect of defense and are vastly inferior playmakers...sure. "Basically flawless".
TBH all of this is just semantics.
TBH you should address what is being argued rather than misuse English. My post was the opposite of semantics.
The real point is that LeBron, Wade and MJ ... and Jimmy were three-level scoring wings who could get to the free throw line a lot, make shots from a variety of places on the court, create off the dribble, mostly hit free throws
Neither Jordan or Wade were good(even for their era) three-point shooters or three-level scorers. The rest describes every all-time great perimeter offensive engine.
The real point which you ignored is you're comically cherrypicking to come up with bizarre assertions like this
Basically, they have no substantial flaws when it comes to basketball.
Let me repeat this again. They are below average at the most important aspect of defense and are substantially worse at creating for others than folks like Nash, Lebron, Magic, or even Steph. Those are two substantial flaws which keep them much lower in actual impact(as demonstrated in the largest samples) than they look in bpm or ws/48.
make game-changing plays on both ends of the ball and keep their turnover rate very low seemingly no matter the circumstances.
They keep their turnover rate very low by not being as involved offensively in the development of possessions as GOAT tier creators.
They can't be taken advantage of on defense
Yes they can:
Spoiler:
One-leg Clyde Drexler is capable of taking advantage of these "flawless" players. But again, none of this would show up in BPM or WS/48.
and they don't have many weaknesses when it comes to offense.
Neither does Kevin Garnett. What is your point.
They all have proven ability to lead bad teams to much better records than what they would have otherwise. They all raised their game or kept it the same during the playoffs. Jimmy is in rare company in this way, don't be obtuse.
You have just described most top 20 players ever, some of whom do both as well and one or both of the two better(Russell, Hakeem, ect). How does this make the guards more similar to Lebron again?
A two-way wing that can pass, shoot and dribble and play on or off ball and has plus size is extremely valuable.
They do not have plus-size, they are guards. Giannis Antetokounmpo is a much better facsimile of Lebron on offense than anyone you listed imitates him (or any actual all-time wing) on defense.
