Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23
MrDollarBills wrote:stuporman wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:
Mark Dollar store Price
Comparing Kolek to Mark Price is kinda racist now that I think about it
I'm not trying to get canceled before the season begins
E-Balla wrote:mpharris36 wrote:E-Balla wrote:In his career KAT holds opponents to -2.3% shooting at the rim. The last 3 years it's -1.8%. Randle holds opponents to -2.3% in his career and in the last 3 years it's -1.9%. KAT only contests 0.7 more shots per 100 too.
Blocks per game is meaningless.
to be fair....you are putting career stats
I didn't just put career stats. I put last 3 year stats too, and Randle is ahead of KAT at PF.and KAT has had to play way more center (it wasn't to way recently when he switched to PF). Playing bigger guys generally results in more shots closer to the rim in terms of shot profile (so contested similar amount of shots per 100 doesn't mean they are contested the same type of shots). More shots closer to the rim are usually more EFF shots.
The stat is how much they hold opponents under their average it already accounts for this.Just look at KAT's shots at the rim attempts before Gobert got there. They were sometimes 2-3 FGA more than randle for a season.
Yes but if Randle moved to C his FGA defended at the rim would also increase, and at -2% that's not necessarily a good thing.So the comparison isn't apples to apples. Randle is guarding 4's who are less likely to take shots closer at the rim in his career. KAT has mostly faced centers in his career.
These stats aren't derived from looking at the position they're guarding. It's done by tracking how close a player is between the scorer and the rim, if they're within 3 feet it counts as a basket defended.As a 4 man you are less likely to have to defend and lob dunks or put backs...ect...shots that have very high EFF FG% shots. The few shots Randle is facing at the rim are probably vs smaller 4's since there aren't that many traditional 4 man in the NBA anymore. So he shouldn't be having to really battle for size and positioning.
So just because Randle has similar FG% at the rim doesn't mean he's a better interior defender...they are going up against completely different size players.
1. I posted last 3 year stats so we can see KAT at PF. It's similar to Randle.
2. The opponent quality and their ability to finish is already taken into account.
3. I'm not saying Randle is better. They're about even. Both of them suck.
Buttah304 wrote:Good to see RealAgenda is alive again after the summer
Genuinely loathe the doom & gloom opinions along with the groundhogs day bait style postings
Can’t wait for the season to start
Also screw this guy
Deeeez Knicks wrote:LA had Anthony Davis who shot 38% from 3 during their run
Denver has Jokic, Gordon shot 39% from 3
I'll give you Dray, but Warriors are maybe one of the greatest shooting teams ever and def won with elite spacing. So small ball, and 3's were def a key to their recipe.
Both are def important and defense will always be important. The key is really finding the balance. I mean, even in your examples your listing players that can do a bit of both. KAT is closer to that type of mold then Randle as a C. He is not perfect and def not guaranteed to work out.
The key is really when Mitch comes back it'll give the Knicks more versatility to play big or small and match up. Another key to those championship teams is that they do play both big and small, and can play both styles well.
god shammgod wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:god shammgod wrote:i'm sure some of you guys on your high horse have criticized a member of the knicks once or twice. you must have wanted them to fail at the time. sad.
We can't even have healthy debates with metrics on here anymore. What happened to this place
this place is just like everywhere else, this is discourse in this country nowadays. "i don't want to hear anything i don't fully agree with. and i want the people saying it gone if they don't stop saying it"
mpharris36 wrote:I'm saying if Randle went more full time 5 his shot at the rim numbers would get significantly worse then they already are since he now would probably have to defend more 1/5 P&R and guarding guys with significantly more size and weight then him...its not a linear effect where if he defends more shots he would stay at the same DFA at the rim by switching positions.
Also Towns still wasn't a full time 4 last year (he played a majority of his minutes there but he plays a handful of minutes at the 5 every game.
Also Gobert has only been on Minny for 2 years..so in your 3 year sample size you have a full year of KAT at center.
NiceLikeChrist wrote:robillionaire wrote:I like Randle and Towns so I don’t even know what to say to some of these people
Towns is going to be a 20 10 all star all nba player and people are going to look silly for doubting him based on nothing. He is a 4x all star 2x all nba and will be both again this season. So change gears now in the preseason or look silly soon
I don't think anybody is doubting Towns ability as a player. I also expect him to be a 20/10 guy the same way I expect Julius to be a 20/10/5 guy.
What most are worried about is whether Towns' 20/10 makes this team better than Julius'. Time will tell but I liked how we played with Julius and a traditional defensive minded, glass crashing center. Now we have a completely different team so we're waiting to see how it turns out. Nothing wrong with speculation and guessing though.
The KnicksFix wrote:Kolek deuce shamet precious ̶S̶i̶m̶s̶ not looking like a bad bench. First three can score and the bottom two can rebound. We can stagger starter minutes with them
WaltFrazier wrote:JJ Redick had promised to work with Josh Hart this summer on his three. I'm sure that fell through after JJ got the Laker job. It's disappointing that Josh's shot doesn't look any better so far, because that's one thing that would be a huge boost to his game, and to the team's offense.
evevale wrote:the only kat "hater" whose posts i take @ face value is e-balla - i learned to trust his judgment during the reddish saga
the rest are masking their very obvious biases under lazy usage of analytics and flawed historical perspective - seen this same act countless times from the same posters about different players
in the end it's just annoying to be ridiculed for rooting for your team and being branded as ignorant/casual for simply trying to have a positive outlook - many of us understand that things won't go as we want them to and to get spammed literally every day reminding us that we'll be "wrong" gets pretty tiring
anyway i usually try to stay out of the imaginary factions wars but i feel like a lot of folks are fed up w/ this ****
E-Balla wrote:mpharris36 wrote:I'm saying if Randle went more full time 5 his shot at the rim numbers would get significantly worse then they already are since he now would probably have to defend more 1/5 P&R and guarding guys with significantly more size and weight then him...its not a linear effect where if he defends more shots he would stay at the same DFA at the rim by switching positions.
Also Towns still wasn't a full time 4 last year (he played a majority of his minutes there but he plays a handful of minutes at the 5 every game.
Also Gobert has only been on Minny for 2 years..so in your 3 year sample size you have a full year of KAT at center.
The 3 year sample size helps KAT. He's at -1.3 the last 2 years.
And you're right Randle's numbers will be worse, they'd probably be as bad as KAT's numbers at C if his numbers at PF are as bad as KAT's.
E-Balla wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:LA had Anthony Davis who shot 38% from 3 during their run
He made 1.1 3s a game on 2.9 attempts a game in that run and he was PF. Dwight and Javale - non shooters - were at C next to him.Denver has Jokic, Gordon shot 39% from 3
AG is 32% from deep in his career like Draymond on 3.2 attempts a game. He shot 29% last season on under 2 attempts a game. He's not a spacing threat he didn't even make 1 3 pointer a game in that run. And Jokic isn't a shooter too. Again Denver was LAST in 3 pointers attempted in 2023. Like I know your opinion, I'm talking actual facts here. A hot streak - something any non shooter can do on low attempts - doesn't change anything.I'll give you Dray, but Warriors are maybe one of the greatest shooting teams ever and def won with elite spacing. So small ball, and 3's were def a key to their recipe.
Both are def important and defense will always be important. The key is really finding the balance. I mean, even in your examples your listing players that can do a bit of both. KAT is closer to that type of mold then Randle as a C. He is not perfect and def not guaranteed to work out.
No he isn't. He can't do both. Not even remotely. He's one of the worst rim protecting bigs in the league.The key is really when Mitch comes back it'll give the Knicks more versatility to play big or small and match up. Another key to those championship teams is that they do play both big and small, and can play both styles well.
Agree here, but we don't need to rewrite history to say rim protecting bigs matter less than stretch bigs. Objectively speaking that's completely false.
mpharris36 wrote:E-Balla wrote:mpharris36 wrote:I'm saying if Randle went more full time 5 his shot at the rim numbers would get significantly worse then they already are since he now would probably have to defend more 1/5 P&R and guarding guys with significantly more size and weight then him...its not a linear effect where if he defends more shots he would stay at the same DFA at the rim by switching positions.
Also Towns still wasn't a full time 4 last year (he played a majority of his minutes there but he plays a handful of minutes at the 5 every game.
Also Gobert has only been on Minny for 2 years..so in your 3 year sample size you have a full year of KAT at center.
The 3 year sample size helps KAT. He's at -1.3 the last 2 years.
And you're right Randle's numbers will be worse, they'd probably be as bad as KAT's numbers at C if his numbers at PF are as bad as KAT's.
so KATs best rim defending season in the last 3 years was when he played full time center....
E-Balla wrote:mpharris36 wrote:E-Balla wrote:The 3 year sample size helps KAT. He's at -1.3 the last 2 years.
And you're right Randle's numbers will be worse, they'd probably be as bad as KAT's numbers at C if his numbers at PF are as bad as KAT's.
so KATs best rim defending season in the last 3 years was when he played full time center....
Nah his best was the first year Gobert got there he was holding opponents to -4.8% at the rim. Last year it was +0.4% so the last 2 year average is bad. He was -3.1% his last year at C. Good try tho.
evevale wrote:the only kat "hater" whose posts i take @ face value is e-balla - i learned to trust his judgment during the reddish saga
the rest are masking their very obvious biases under lazy usage of analytics and flawed historical perspective - seen this same act countless times from the same posters about different players
in the end it's just annoying to be ridiculed for rooting for your team and being branded as ignorant/casual for simply trying to have a positive outlook - many of us understand that things won't go as we want them to and to get spammed literally every day reminding us that we'll be "wrong" gets pretty tiring
anyway i usually try to stay out of the imaginary factions wars but i feel like a lot of folks are fed up w/ this ****
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Jokic doesn't protect the rim at all and is one of the greatest offensive Centers in history.
He is waaaay more of an offensive C then defensive C. Teams need to cover him everywhere on the floor. Despite his 3 point percentage he is a major threat. Not even sure how that one is debatable.
