Where do you stand on tanking this season?

[Iverson Armband]

you need a borderline perfect team to win with anyone if you are going to pedantic about it.

No one is flawless. You need a team that can cover those flaws. Giannis got wall'd for years because Bledsoe was an ass PG . They got him Jrue and then PJ to take the load off on the perimeter and Bropez being the perfect floor spacing and rim protector allowed Giannis to roam. Middleton was the closer for that run as well. Portis also fit well. ...Middleton fell apart, Jrue got old and then traded, and they never replaced PJ...and suddenly first round exits galore.

Jokic is the best in the world right now. But doesn't win **** without them trading for Aaron Gordon who is able to not only protect the rim but also guard up and down...as well as being a lob threat. KCP and their gaggle of wing defenders covers for Jokic' lack of foot speed and also are all great release valves. AGain he also had a closer in Playoff Jamal Murray. Murray may be washed and their wings aren't as good and now they don't look like world beaters anymore.

I am not absolving Biid of his own ****. I have said for damn near a decade that he needed to try to be Tim Duncan and not the stupid Kobe Shaq Dirk homunculus he has attempted to be...and that required loosing some weight and be less ball dominant. He didn't do that and has to hold that L. HOWEVER I don't think its neigh impossible to have built a better more cohesive roster around him either. They damn near did so twice and I wouldn't call those perfect rosters by no stretch of the imagination, there was always something that was just outright bad and you have to live with it (normally the bench lol) but both time we had those good rosters were also the both times we were close to breaking through IMO. Each of the recent champs all went through some playoff failure....and most of it was due to their star's flaws imo. Giannis lack of bag. Jokic' defense. Tatum/Brown's lack of playmaking. Their FOs constantly tweaked their teams to help hide those flaws WHILE enhancing their strengths...ours took for granted that Biid could always just elevate other players with his gravity and his playstyle that relies on tough shot making and grifting would just never fall off while also expecting him to lead a top defense too as they constantly looked for the BIG MOVE down the line. They made small and quiet additions (Derrick White, Jrue twice, guys like Bruce Brown, the aforementioned Aaron Gordon trade); we every year hope for the buy out market to get us a not washed old dude because we used all of our ammo on bad moves prior.

Thats the difference IMO.

Obviously, no player can do it by themselves. Hell, Jordan couldn’t. The difference with Joel is he seems to….need everything. He needs an elite guard. He needs elite wings. He needs another big who can shoot. He needs another big that can pass and rebound because he can’t. He needs an above average backup because he’s unreliable .. you get my point. He needs leaders because he isn’t one. At some point it’s like damn.


And you even said so yourself, Biid had some of those teams we all agree fit him to tee and what happened? You blame the FO for tinkering, but I think they saw those results and how unreliable/small Joel came up and probably panicked a bit trying to get pieces around him. It didn’t work but I don’t think it’s from lack of trying. All parties have their fair share of blame but the failures of this era fall squarely at his feet IMO

Joel Embiid fits best on a team like Team USA, where they don’t rely on him to carry the load every game. They can handle stretches when he’s not fully engaged, and he can step up in specific matchups or clutch moments. In this setup, he’s more of a “final piece” rather than the “centerpiece”.

The issue with building around Embiid is his unpredictability. Sometimes he’s dominant, but other times he might not even show up mentally or physically. It’s like rolling dice—you don’t know if he’ll play, be locked in, or if his jumper will fall. So, the best setup for him is a team that doesn’t completely depend on him. They should be good enough to compete without him and let him add value as needed, like icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.

Well said.

[Mik317]

again I don't agree

Even at his worse prior to this season even a bad Joel Embiid game is helpful to the team. He was lowkey **** in that Toronto series and we won his minutes. He was on one leg and half a face and was not the reason we lost the Knicks series.

Its not about having an elite super team. You get him a Derrick White and a Tari Eason...two guys we had a "realistic" shot at getting at various points, Maxey and even a washed PG and I think that is a core you can win with. Get a stretch five like Jay Huff off the street. Oubre, Yabu, McCain off the bench. Council and if you can find a bigger backup PG (Dinwiddie?) and you have an ok bench unit. Thats not an elite unit in terms of names, nor would it be a super team imo. That would require the FO to have some foresight instead of just chasing names or former rockets.

The above roster still requires Biid to be great but with actual shooters, better defenders, and just better scorers/playmakers...it requires less perfection and just less taxing overall which COULD in theory mean less wear and tear and we could get the January Biid in the playoffs instead of a broken down one for once.

I also don't get why he is penalized for needing elite teammates...as if the last few champs havent had elite talent around them.

[76ciology]

again I don't agree

Even at his worse prior to this season even a bad Joel Embiid game is helpful to the team. He was lowkey **** in that Toronto series and we won his minutes. He was on one leg and half a face and was not the reason we lost the Knicks series.

Its not about having an elite super team. You get him a Derrick White and a Tari Eason...two guys we had a "realistic" shot at getting at various points, Maxey and even a washed PG and I think that is a core you can win with. Get a stretch five like Jay Huff off the street. Oubre, Yabu, McCain off the bench. Council and if you can find a bigger backup PG (Dinwiddie?) and you have an ok bench unit. Thats not an elite unit in terms of names, nor would it be a super team imo. That would require the FO to have some foresight instead of just chasing names or former rockets.

The above roster still requires Biid to be great but with actual shooters, better defenders, and just better scorers/playmakers...it requires less perfection and just less taxing overall which COULD in theory mean less wear and tear and we could get the January Biid in the playoffs instead of a broken down one for once.

I also don't get why he is penalized for needing elite teammates...as if the last few champs havent had elite talent around them.

This is all under the assumption that Jojo will play most games and maintain consistent performance.

But what happens when Jojo misses significant time, including playoff games, or when his performance fluctuates dramatically?

That’s where we’ve consistently fallen short—until moves like the Horford-Ben lead non Jojo minutes/games, which minimized the on-off drop-off, and later, the Jimmy and Harden trades. Those trades provided an alpha who could step up when Jojo wasn’t available or when his performance dipped, ensuring the team had a reliable offensive engine even in his absence. You need a team that can run without Jojo. An alternative engine for our unreliable engine.

Building around Jojo requires more than just assuming his availability; it demands contingency plans for his inconsistencies.

Jojo didn’t carry much of the load in the Olympics, playing alongside Durant, LeBron, and Steph, yet he still re-injured his knee. That raises serious doubts about whether load management can ever fully guarantee his health, especially with a decade-long sample of injury struggles. I’m not sure I want to take that bet anymore. Honestly, when we inevitably face another early playoff exit—whether it’s the second round or even the play-in tournament—I think you’ll look back and share the same feelings I have right now.

It’s dark, depressing and its the reality.

[Mik317]

again if he had less of an incentive to be the whole offense and the whole defense, he could do like most stars and coast a few games throughout the season...except he can due to roster construction

and he didn't get hurt in the Olympics, he simply never fully recovered from the injury sustained last season which came due to overwork due to Morey's capspace plan.

This has been years in the making man. prior to that Biid, injured or not, could lead us to 50 wins every season.

You are all so quick to blame him for everything that you are ignoring this context. It is driving me nuts here as it feels like you are ignoring half the **** I have posted at this point to keep going "well i guess he just needs a perfect roster then" over and over again lol.

The current state of Biid is due to years of just thinking that he will always overcome the injuries and that the workload wouldn't catch up to him. And YES he has a major role to play in that with his own fitness and probably wanting to play that way...he is not faultless in this. Its like giving a QB a bad offensive line but he somehow makes it work for years but eventually the wear and tear starts to take its toll...but then you go "well i guess he never was that good, huh?" This is bar for bar the same **** people did to Iverson . Yes he should have practiced more. Yes, he should have gotten rid of his off court antics...that doesn't change the fact that the roster around him was buns. Same thing with Iggy. Fans desperately wanted him to be a first option top tier scorer and ignored the fact that those teams had some of the worst spacing in history...and then he goes elsewhere with actual spacing and thrives.

I cannot stand this Philly WIP Fan brain of "well hes the best player so he just gotta do it" and the moment you try to explain why he can't its..."well he's not a real alpha and thus should be traded and you should stop coddling him".

For Biid it is simply probably too late. His body is cooked and the outbursts earlier this season shows he is probably just tired of it all, so I don't even disagree that we should begin looking to the future. I vehemently disagree that the FO did everything they could to prevent this tho. This is years of terrible decisions coming home to roost imo.

[Arsenal]

Just demote all the washed old guys (Lowry, Gordon, Jackson, Drummond, etc.), let the young athletes play, and let the chips fall where they may. If that's not good enough to make a run, pull the plug and tank hardcore beginning in January.

[Ferry Avenue]

Joel Embiid fits best on a team like Team USA, where they don’t rely on him to carry the load every game. They can handle stretches when he’s not fully engaged, and he can step up in specific matchups or clutch moments. In this setup, he’s more of a “final piece” rather than the “centerpiece”.

The difference between Embiid and players like Nikola Jokic and Giannis Antetokounmpo is that those guys can be the engine of their teams. When their teams make the playoffs, you can count on them to rarely miss games and bring 101% effort every night. These are the type of players you can build around as the “centerpiece,” where you just need to surround them with the right role players to succeed.

The issue with building around Embiid is his unpredictability. Sometimes he’s dominant, but other times he might not even show up mentally or physically. It’s like rolling dice—you don’t know if he’ll play, be locked in, or if his jumper will fall. So, the best setup for him is a team that doesn’t completely depend on him. They should be good enough to compete without him and let him add value as needed, like icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.

All true, but how do you afford the players necessary for that configuration when Embiid makes the salary he does?

[Jailblazers7]

To be fair, Giannis has missed playoff time the past two year leading to his teams elimination. But his effort when on the court vs. Embiid is obviously different.

[Ferry Avenue]

Obviously, no player can do it by themselves. Hell, Jordan couldn’t. The difference with Joel is he seems to….need everything. He needs an elite guard. He needs elite wings. He needs another big who can shoot. He needs another big that can pass and rebound because he can’t. He needs an above average backup because he’s unreliable .. you get my point. He needs leaders because he isn’t one. At some point it’s like damn.


And you even said so yourself, Biid had some of those teams we all agree fit him to tee and what happened? You blame the FO for tinkering, but I think they saw those results and how unreliable/small Joel came up and probably panicked a bit trying to get pieces around him. It didn’t work but I don’t think it’s from lack of trying. All parties have their fair share of blame but the failures of this era fall squarely at his feet IMO

Joel Embiid fits best on a team like Team USA, where they don’t rely on him to carry the load every game. They can handle stretches when he’s not fully engaged, and he can step up in specific matchups or clutch moments. In this setup, he’s more of a “final piece” rather than the “centerpiece”.

The issue with building around Embiid is his unpredictability. Sometimes he’s dominant, but other times he might not even show up mentally or physically. It’s like rolling dice—you don’t know if he’ll play, be locked in, or if his jumper will fall. So, the best setup for him is a team that doesn’t completely depend on him. They should be good enough to compete without him and let him add value as needed, like icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.

Well said.

Yes, and also well said by me five years ago and regularly between then and now.

Back then it was "trolling" -- now it's "well said."

[Iverson Armband]

To be fair, Giannis has missed playoff time the past two year leading to his teams elimination. But his effort when on the court vs. Embiid is obviously different.

If Joel had even one title under his belt like Giannis, I don’t think we’d be having this discussion. Atleast from me anyway.

[Iverson Armband]

Joel Embiid fits best on a team like Team USA, where they don’t rely on him to carry the load every game. They can handle stretches when he’s not fully engaged, and he can step up in specific matchups or clutch moments. In this setup, he’s more of a “final piece” rather than the “centerpiece”.

The issue with building around Embiid is his unpredictability. Sometimes he’s dominant, but other times he might not even show up mentally or physically. It’s like rolling dice—you don’t know if he’ll play, be locked in, or if his jumper will fall. So, the best setup for him is a team that doesn’t completely depend on him. They should be good enough to compete without him and let him add value as needed, like icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.

Well said.

Yes, and also well said by me five years ago and regularly between then and now.

Back then it was "trolling" -- now it's "well said."

I never said you were trolling. But it seems as though you’re on a rampage revenge tour right now, so go off.

[76ciology]

Joel Embiid fits best on a team like Team USA, where they don’t rely on him to carry the load every game. They can handle stretches when he’s not fully engaged, and he can step up in specific matchups or clutch moments. In this setup, he’s more of a “final piece” rather than the “centerpiece”.

The difference between Embiid and players like Nikola Jokic and Giannis Antetokounmpo is that those guys can be the engine of their teams. When their teams make the playoffs, you can count on them to rarely miss games and bring 101% effort every night. These are the type of players you can build around as the “centerpiece,” where you just need to surround them with the right role players to succeed.

The issue with building around Embiid is his unpredictability. Sometimes he’s dominant, but other times he might not even show up mentally or physically. It’s like rolling dice—you don’t know if he’ll play, be locked in, or if his jumper will fall. So, the best setup for him is a team that doesn’t completely depend on him. They should be good enough to compete without him and let him add value as needed, like icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.

All true, but how do you afford the players necessary for that configuration when Embiid makes the salary he does?

This team does not have a poverty of talent or assets so they can build that type of team if they want to.

First off, the key is finding a player who can be an engine of the offense, someone who can run the offense and then have a reliable third scoring option—maybe George or Maxey fills that role. Surround that duo with strong shooting across the lineup and minimize defensive liabilities (it’s OK to have Hauser type players). The Harden-led team from Game 1 against the Celtics was a glimpse of this approach, but with our upgraded talent, we can aim even higher. Another blueprint to consider is how the Heat operate with Jimmy Butler as their centerpiece.

A simple (and controversial) solution could be trading Maxey for Butler, but I get why that might be off-limits. But you guys may have better Ideas like McCain and picks for Luka Doncic.

I think Morey has experience with this kind of scenario. Back when he had Yao Ming, who was on and off on the Rockets, he brought in T-Mac as a lead playmaker because players like Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley couldn’t run the offense at that level. That Rockets team thrived when Yao was unavailable because they had backup centers like Mutombo or Asik and surrounded T-Mac with shooters. Maybe Morey is trying to recreate that here, with George or Maxey stepping into a T-Mac-like role and Drummond (and Yabu?) anchoring the team when Embiid is unavailable.

Where were failing now is neither Maxey or George can be the engine of this team when Embiid is out.

[SixersSince82]

again if he had less of an incentive to be the whole offense and the whole defense, he could do like most stars and coast a few games throughout the season...except he can't due to roster construction

I think you're on an island, man.

Most stars that can take a game off can do that because they have another star to pick up the slack not cause of a bunch of role players. Plus the real stars make their teammates better on offense. Joel's lack of court vision and slow decision making doesn't help matters.

It was earlier in his career but Joel said (paraphrasing) "I'm not a big man, I'm a big guard. I can do it all". He then spent more time working on individual "guard skills" like turnaround fade-away jumpers instead of working on team guard skills like passing and improving his court vision which would have enhanced his teammates ability to impact the game and made it easier for him.

If you wanted him to take games off he'd need another star to step up not role players which is 76ciology and a lot of folks point.

But that doesn't even get into his injuries. The man simply isn't available and healthy enough, especially in the post-season, because hasn't taken his health seriously enough both on court and off court. We've watched Joel check back into blowouts because he wanted to chase his 30-10 streak (thats got nothing to do with the ability of his teammates). Often you can pinpoint the exact moment he did something reckless on the court and hurts himself. (diving into a scrum for loose ball, the off the backboard dunk, not to mention defying the med staff and playing when he shouldn't cause he's so sensitive about the injury prone label). He's been hit in the face twice, which might just come down to bad luck. Heck, he missed 2 seasons before playing a minute of NBA basketball. His injuries are a combination of not taking his health serious enough, making reckless decisions on the court and perhaps just plain bad luck. He's injury prone. Period.

This stuff just makes him a really tough player to build around. (and pairing him with maxey is tough too because he's got just as serious albeit very different issues)

[Mik317]

again if he had less of an incentive to be the whole offense and the whole defense, he could do like most stars and coast a few games throughout the season...except he can't due to roster construction

I think you're on an island, man.

Most stars that can take a game off can do that because they have another star to pick up the slack not cause of a bunch of role players. Plus the real stars make their teammates better on offense. Joel's lack of court vision and slow decision making doesn't help matters.

It was earlier in his career but Joel said (paraphrasing) "I'm not a big man, I'm a big guard. I can do it all". He then spent more time working on individual "guard skills" like turnaround fade-away jumpers instead of working on team guard skills like passing and improving his court vision which would have enhanced his teammates ability to impact the game and made it easier for him.

If you wanted him to take games off he'd need another star to step up not role players which is 76ciology and a lot of folks point.

But that doesn't even get into his injuries. The man simply isn't available and healthy enough, especially in the post-season, because hasn't taken his health seriously enough both on court and off court. We've watched Joel check back into blowouts because he wanted to chase his 30-10 streak (thats got nothing to do with the ability of his teammates). Often you can pinpoint the exact moment he did something reckless on the court and hurts himself. (diving into a scrum for loose ball, the off the backboard dunk, not to mention defying the med staff and playing when he shouldn't cause he's so sensitive about the injury prone label). He's been hit in the face twice, which might just come down to bad luck. Heck, he missed 2 seasons before playing a minute of NBA basketball. His injuries are a combination of not taking his health serious enough, making reckless decisions on the court and perhaps just plain bad luck. He's injury prone. Period.

This stuff just makes him a really tough player to build around. (and pairing him with maxey is tough too because he's got just as serious albeit very different issues)

I agree with some of this tbf. Great Post. I have called Jo out on his need to be Giant Kobe many times

However going to push back against some of it as the reality is we probably never will know the real answer either way.

LeBron hasn't guarded the best player on offense in over a decade. Giannis has played the roaming game as Bropez has been the rim protector and has had his creation duties cut down. Jokic plays kick ball on defense. Steph has Draymond to run the offense and has been hidden on defense. Each of these guys you can consider to be better players than Jo, correct? Meanwhile we have asked Jo to not only anchor the defense but also be the hub on offense, take the most shots, be the PG at times. That takes a toll is all I am saying. And again yes this falls on him too as I suspect he wants that roleset himself.

i also push back on him not making others better. he has elevated many of others by just being there. Doesn't mean he couldn't be better but he does make others better imo.

[youngcrev]

There are some very valid criticisms of Joel Embiid, but it just seems like some people get lost in those criticisms and somehow can no longer recognize him for the ridiculously awesome player that he is when they talk about him. As in, most talented player to play here in the last 30+ years. This team has been frustrating as hell during his era, but you know what they've also been? Relevant. And I'm not eager to slide back into selling myself on the hope of landing an MVP caliber guy through the draft or to watch a try hard team that fights it's way to 43 wins and has a clear and obvious ceiling on them.

Is it hard to build a championship team around him? Absolutely. It's hard to build a championship team in general.

[76ciology]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

it a disservice to the fans to not tank

[Wilfried]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

it a disservice to the fans to not tank

Proper care doesn't match with Joel, and luck doesn't match with Philadelphia.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Just tank man.

[M2J]

Just tank man.

https://thesixersense.com/76ers-finally-get-positive-joel-embiid-injury-news

Joel expected to return with George Friday.

I think it will help the tank

[youngcrev]

Just tank man.

https://thesixersense.com/76ers-finally-get-positive-joel-embiid-injury-news

Joel expected to return with George Friday.

I think it will help the tank

Nope

Read on Twitter

[M2J]

Just tank man.

https://thesixersense.com/76ers-finally-get-positive-joel-embiid-injury-news

Joel expected to return with George Friday.

I think it will help the tank

Nope

Read on Twitter

WTF happened to Bona? Tank in full effect