With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo

[WiggOuts]

Derozan started off with worse athleticism, worse defense, worse offensive skill set, worse b-ball IQ, yet we made that bum our franchise player and he turned into an all-star.

Masai not thinking he would reach this level doesn't mean he didn't see potential in him, otherwise why would we draft Siakam over the highly touted Skal.

Pre-draft, scouts and journalists were already commenting on Siakam's potential. It's not like zero people recognized the possibility of a high upside. Many players don't have this upside and are projected to be a role player. Pre-draft there were scouts reporting on Siakam having high two-way upside, including being elite defensively, only that it was a big question mark on if he could ever get there.

Then why was he drafted in the late first round ? Do you realize he's better than the 1st overall pick in his draft class ? Let me guess, scouts expected that as well ? Siakam overachieved point blank.

Every player who reaches their peak overachieves. Derozan also overachieved. What's your point? In context, is it rare for players to reach their potential?

High upside doesn't mean they're likely to get there. With Siakam there were a ton of question marks mainly because of his age. If he was doing the same thing at 18/19 instead of 22, he'd go higher.

Also, the athletic 6'8/6'9 archetype wasn't exactly highly coveted at the time. Kawhi and Giannis were drafted at 15, and at a much younger age. It was also mainly Masai trying to go after these players. Look at him taking Bruno, OG, Scottie.

It doesn't seem like anything will change your mind, just remember he was drafted 27th and he most likely goes 1st in a redraft, that alone contradicts everything you're saying. Scouts and GMs flat out didn't expect this type of growth. Saying that you did is like saying you knew the winning lottery numbers after the prize was already won

[RoteSchroder]

Then why was he drafted in the late first round ? Do you realize he's better than the 1st overall pick in his draft class ? Let me guess, scouts expected that as well ? Siakam overachieved point blank.

Every player who reaches their peak overachieves. Derozan also overachieved. What's your point? In context, is it rare for players to reach their potential?

High upside doesn't mean they're likely to get there. With Siakam there were a ton of question marks mainly because of his age. If he was doing the same thing at 18/19 instead of 22, he'd go higher.

Also, the athletic 6'8/6'9 archetype wasn't exactly highly coveted at the time. Kawhi and Giannis were drafted at 15, and at a much younger age. It was also mainly Masai trying to go after these players. Look at him taking Bruno, OG, Scottie.

It doesn't seem like anything will change your mind, just remember he was drafted 27th and he most likely goes 1st in a redraft, that alone contradicts everything you're saying. Scouts and GMs flat out didn't expect this type of growth. Saying that you did is like saying you knew the winning lottery numbers after the prize was already won

Answer the following yes or no questions.

1. Numerous players have had exceeded their expected trajectories and would jump up several spots in a redraft.

2. Did Siakam have a solid foundation of speed+athleticism, touch around the basket, footwork to begin with in the NBA.

3. Was he touted as a high upside player early on:
e.g. https://fansided.com/2016/06/20/2016-nba-draft-scouting-report-pascal-siakam-new-mexico-state/

Siakam has high upside on both ends

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2016-nba-mock-draft/

Is becoming a force in the paint and has an intriguing amount of upside.

https://www.raptorshq.com/2016/8/30/12712048/nba-rookie-survey-toronto-raptors-pascal-siakam-jakob-poeltl

an unsexy low-ceiling big man [Poeltl] and an obscure if high-upside forward [Siakam]

4. Is it "extremely rare" for a high upside player to reach his potential (odds are stacked against any player, but every good player is an example of someone reaching their potential)

5. If player A receives more hype and than player B, despite starting and ending at the same level, does that make player's A developmental arc "normal" and player B's development arc "extremely rare".


Most of the board and many scouts/mock boards were propping up Skal, who was likely propped up by agents. Any idiot who fell for that crap should never be allowed to have an opinion. Just because people are idiots and the unexpected occurs something doesn't make it "extremely rare". You can ask BoyzNTheHood who pops up every draft time if he was able to perceive basic logic when it was being explained to him why Siakam was a much better pick than the obvious bust Skal.

[OakleyDokely]

Deflections (Per 36, min 200 minutes)
1. A Caruso: 7.2
2. D Daniels: 7.2
3. M Smart: 5.5
4. J Mogbo: 5.4

He's the biggest guy on this list.

Offensive Rebounds (Per 36, min 200 minutes)
1. K Looney: 8.8
2. D Clingan: 6.7
3. M Diabate: 6.7
4. Z Edey: 5.5
5. C Capela: 5.5
6. J Mogbo: 5.3

He's the smallest guy on this list.

[niQ]

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[Psubs]

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Get him on the Ochai Agbaji shooting program.

[sidsid]

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Get him on the Ochai Agbaji shooting program.

This is the whole ball game for these wing/forwards. Precious had a tantalizing progression as a late growth spurt guard-play type with the OG body. The 3 just didn't stick and that just tanks a lot of impact.

Get that corner 3 to respectability and you have yourself the most valuable type of role player.

[Psubs]

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Get him on the Ochai Agbaji shooting program.

This is the whole ball game for these wing/forwards. Precious had a tantalizing progression as a late growth spurt guard-play type with the OG body. The 3 just didn't stick and that just tanks a lot of impact.

Get that corner 3 to respectability and you have yourself the most valuable type of role player.

Adou Thiero had a late growth spurt and adjusting. We'll see if he's a legit 6'8 without shoes and 220 lbs. He hasn't been able to get that 3 going consistently, or else he'd be in the lottery. Thiero attacks the rim, why has Mogbo stopped? Mogbo was aggressive the first few games.

[myzticle]

In comparison to Siakam's rookie year:

JMogbo: 15.8 MIN, 5.2 PPG, 4.3 REB, 1.4 AST, 0.8 BLK, 0.4 STL, .485 FG, .300 3PT, .727 FT, .563 TS, 14.3 USG
Siakam: 15.6 MIN, 4.2 PPG, 3.4 REB, 0.3 AST, 0.8 BLK, 0.5 STL, .502 FG, .143 3PT, .688 FT, .523 TS, 13.1 USG

Does anyone recall why Siakam's USG was quite so low as a rookie?

Mogbo's usage seems about right for a guy in college who was only at 22 USG in his final year, but Siakam was a pretty typical star in college his final year at 29 USG (and was at 22 USG as a freshman).

I think Mogbo looks a really solid player, but it's hard to see him becoming a serious scorer like Siakam, just from an aggressiveness and mid-range shooting/moves standpoint.

On the other hand, his free throw rate is as high as Siakam's was in his 3rd year, when we won the title and he was getting 17 a night and the #2 scorer on the team, so who the hell knows?

They didn't design any plays for him. Everything came from him hustling.

[djsunyc]

using rookie mogbo as the middle guy vs a zone is a big show of confidence

[HangTime]

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Get him on the Ochai Agbaji shooting program.

We're creating all the programs.

The Gradey Development Program -
Give him some reps at the NBA Level, then send him to the 905, playing the same role, but with uptick him usage.
This way, when he returns to the Raptor,

The Ochai (Older-Young player) Program -
3 point shooting and defense,
-work out in summer, with the player you told (Gradey) "whoever takes over this room, be great" (who just happens your teammate).

The Ulrich Development Program -
Guy with major potential, but doesn't have the game reps. Sign him to a 2-way deal, and let's develop him slowly in the G-League.

The Ja'kobe First year summary to date - being designed on the fly, not the plan they had in mind
-Sitting out of Training camp, pre-season, and the first 4 games,

-Got Assigned Raptors 905 Training Camp, to practice, and get extended run with the 905.

-But instead, with Scottie's injury, the Raptors need him, but doesn't travel to Charlotte for 1 game, and instead, stays home, and waits to debut against the Bron and Bronny's Lakers (Two of Kobe Bryant's former teams
-- struggles from the field, but there's a lot of intrigue

- plays 3 more games, and gets hurt again (Misses 2 weeks)

-Active for the game vs Minny, doesn't play.
--- Get's assigned to the 905, play 1 games with all his fellow rookie's
-Stays behind and plays 1 more game, as the Raptors are in Detroit.

--They find out Gradey will out for while, so they re-call Ja'kobe
--He gets to Detroit during the 4th quarter, but wasn't on the active roster, because the team didn't know if he'd get there in time. [size=85(]Possible Hero Moment)[/size]

- He's Finally able to play again, in his 2nd stint with the Raptors, and Darko starts him in New Orleans.

--He's been starting ever since, and he plays like an advanced court mapper, struggling to make shots, and doesn't shy away from attacking the paint, drawing contact.

That's 7 NBA games. and 2 G-League games in

All this, and it's only Game 21 into the NBA season.

[niQ]

using rookie mogbo as the middle guy vs a zone is a big show of confidence

He's got pretty good vision for a rookie. But he is also older than most rookies.

[Wutang_CMB]

impressed with Mogbo. High IQ and stupid athletic. Offense will come in time.

[Dexjackson]

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The shot looks like it's getting smoother and a bit quicker. He seems like the kind of guy who will put the work in. I think he'll get to the point where he shoots respectable from 3 based mostly on that. If he develops his finishing around the rim (needs a lot of work obviously) as well, he could become a starter in the league I think. He's already showing that he belongs in the league with hardly any scoring whatsoever which is really encouraging.

[FunkaRaptor]

using rookie mogbo as the middle guy vs a zone is a big show of confidence

He's got pretty good vision for a rookie. But he is also older than most rookies.

Yes but you can't teach court vision. He has a natural feel for passing.

[OakleyDokely]

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[OakleyDokely]

In games he's played more than 20 minutes:

6 GMS, 22 MIN, 10.5 PPG, 5.5 REB, 2.2 AST, 1.2 STL, 1.0 BLK, .510 FG (7.2 ATT), .400 3PT (0.8 ATT), .700 FT (4.0 ATT)

[PushDaRock]

Watch on YouTube

Showed a bit of everything there, the willingness to attempt some of that stuff is encouraging more than anything else. He even had a step back middy that rimmed out in garbage time that looked pretty good. There are some elite traits he has that just pop when he plays, I think we eventually will be talking about him as part of the core rather than the role player most project him to be.

[bonjovi0308]

Watch on YouTube

Showed a bit of everything there, the willingness to attempt some of that stuff is encouraging more than anything else. He even had a step back middy that rimmed out in garbage time that looked pretty good. There are some elite traits he has that just pop when he plays, I think we eventually will be talking about him as part of the core rather than the role player most project him to be.

Mogbo could either be the team's starting SF/PF, or the 6th man. His skillet is needed for a championship team

[Psubs]

In games he's played more than 20 minutes:

6 GMS, 22 MIN, 10.5 PPG, 5.5 REB, 2.2 AST, 1.2 STL, 1.0 BLK, .510 FG (7.2 ATT), .400 3PT (0.8 ATT), .700 FT (4.0 ATT)

Just waive Boucher if you're not going to trade him. Give Mogbo 30mpg off the bench if not starting him.

[raptorforlife88]

I would not have guessed he would be hitting some threes at this point. He hit zero his entire college career. He's hit 7 so far, and in a obviously ridiculously small sample size, but he's hitting them at 39% after tonight.

Impressively quick work to get the makings of a jumper going for Mogbo. Have to see how it holds up over the season, but him hitting threes will raise his ceiling.