PG: Knicks vs. Thunder: BELT-TO-ASS GAME

[NiceLikeChrist]

Bench sucks, Thibs suck. Both can be true at the same time you dont have to pick a side lol

Nobody has ever said the bench is good, that's just a strawman argument these posters use to defend Tom. Everyone says the bench needs to play, regardless of outcome, like the Celtics don't have a good bench at all but they still play more than ours.

Exactly. People seem to think us saying the bench should play more means we’re saying the bench is going to save us. No, the bench is going to save the starters and they are the ones who are going to save us.

Right now we’re just running our top guys into the dirt and it’s clearly taking a toll on them not even halfway through the season

[Gravy]

Making up arguments just to defend Thibs, you may as well call that man Daddy with how hard you're going for him. The damage is already done to those two, Mikal averaged 41mpg from December until maybe 2 games ago. The starters got annihilated, the two wings were 2-17 and couldn't guard anyone, that is obviously the bench's fault, it's also the bench's fault the starting 5 can't shoot threes anymore. It's the bench' fault that our defensive scheme on threes is horrific and almost always leads to 1-2 passes away from an open shot for the opponents.


In 2018, Jimmy Butler literally sat out the all-star game cause he was tired, that was obviously the bench's fault

Yall told me Shamet?

Who? Everyone keeps saying the bench needs to play regardless, because we want to keep the starters fresh. You keep saying over and over again that random Boogeyman posters are saying we have the 2016 Warriors bench, because you need to misrepresent things just to defend your lord and savior. The starters got destroyed in this game, but that is the bench's fault?


Mikal and OG have dead legs, the team as a whole have dead legs which is why we cannot shoot now. Mikal from November 1st to Jan 1st averaged 40mpg, Jimmy Butler literally asked out of the all-star game because he averaged 37mpg and had tired legs playing for Thibs. You no doubt defended the absurd minutes these guys were playing, and now you're trying your hardest to deflect from the results of doing it.

Yep, the starters should be playing less than 30mpg like the new flavor of the month coach Daigneault. Our roster is exactly as talented as theirs right? Evil Thibs is playing them 37 minutes for no reason at all because the bench is awesome. We got people here saying Kolek is better than Brunson . You promised us for years the next coach will be a Steve Kerr and make everything right. Whenever they make that change I'll be waiting for it all to be fixed and win championships

[ScienceOfLosing]

Their offense was simple… put KAT in the pick and roll and attack his drop coverage for an easy floater 65% shot.

If you get the Brunson switch against SGA or Jdub, attack it straight away with no pick. 70% shooting against that.

Rinse and repeat.

That’s why Brunson and KAT can never work. Two black holes on defense.

Afraid you are right. Adding Mitch will help some in the paint though.
Brunson is a bit weak as a defender, so the point of attack will always be weak defensively.

And there is our other problem. Too bad we let Bryant go.

[Luv those Knicks]

So.... what is the plan?

How about, hit more than 12% of our 3 pointers. Especially when they hit 51%


- - -

It's just one game. Adjust. Get Mitch back. Win enough games to coast into the playoffs and see what happens there.

[JayTWill]

Every time we say the team is out of options they bring someone in we never thought they could. So I'll wait and see if they can do it again.

If you think the kids have some high potential that will never be developed here all I can say is that has not been proven true yet under Thibs. IQ, RJ, Deuce have developed to their potential here. But like Sham said you may keep hoping these new guys turn into great players too. with a brand new coach that will save them

I'm not saying the kids have high potential but guys like Shamet, Payne, Precious and Sims aren't exactly a high bar to clear imo. You want to keep Thibs and continue what we are doing but you say we need better players? Ok. Give me an example of a better player that would take the Knicks to true contender status with Thibs as a coach and tell me how the Knicks will acquire that player.

I dont even know how we got the players we have now lol. Thats why I dont do trades and transactions. If you believe Atkinson or anyone except Thibs would have us with the same record as the Cavs, ok, I cant really prove or disprove that. I've noticed in the last 20 years of Knicksdom we always blame the coach first then years later after he's fired we realize the players he had were actually not that good. Happens every time

So you continue to shoot down the idea of a coaching change possibly improving the team but you can't think of a single trade idea to possibly improve the team? You might be the Tom Thibodeau of posters with your lack of imagination and stubbornness. Just kidding....

It's not about simply blaming the coach. I was one of the few people that has been critical of the moves they have made after the OG trade. I was not a fan of the team they had built and the way they had managed their assets but none of that can be changed now. They can't bring Grimes and those second round picks back. They can't bring those 5 1sts, a swap, and high 2nd back. They can't stop iHart from walking. They can't bring DDV back. I don't want them to bring Randle back.

They have limited trade assets to make a significant improvement to the roster. They have limited room for internal growth outside of the rookies. More vet min additions are unlikely to make a bigger impact than the guys currently on the bench. So where else can I look to possibly improve the team?

How can you watch OKC manhandle the Knicks with young depth and not think investing time in developing the youth on the court could be beneficial?

How could you watch OKC switch, trap, blitz, double-team, play zone etc with a historically great defense while the other coach has been running the same defense forever no matter the personnel and not think there could be some possible improvements to the coach's defensive strategy?

How could you watch Brunson pound the air out of the ball year after year no matter how much talent he has around him while the team plays near the slowest pace in the league once again and not think there could possibly be some improvement in the coach's offensive strategy?

[Gravy]

I'm not saying the kids have high potential but guys like Shamet, Payne, Precious and Sims aren't exactly a high bar to clear imo. You want to keep Thibs and continue what we are doing but you say we need better players? Ok. Give me an example of a better player that would take the Knicks to true contender status with Thibs as a coach and tell me how the Knicks will acquire that player.

I dont even know how we got the players we have now lol. Thats why I dont do trades and transactions. If you believe Atkinson or anyone except Thibs would have us with the same record as the Cavs, ok, I cant really prove or disprove that. I've noticed in the last 20 years of Knicksdom we always blame the coach first then years later after he's fired we realize the players he had were actually not that good. Happens every time

So you continue to shoot down the idea of a coaching change possibly improving the team but you can't think of a single trade idea to possibly improve the team? You might be the Tom Thibodeau of posters with your lack of imagination and stubbornness. Just kidding....

It's not about simply blaming the coach. I was one of the few people that has been critical of the moves they have made after the OG trade. I was not a fan of the team they had built and the way they had managed their assets but none of that can be changed now. They can't bring Grimes and those second round picks back. They can't bring those 5 1sts, a swap, and high 2nd back. They can't stop iHart from walking. They can't bring DDV back. I don't want them to bring Randle back.

They have limited trade assets to make a significant improvement to the roster. They have limited room for internal growth outside of the rookies. More vet min additions are unlikely to make a bigger impact than the guys currently on the bench. So where else can I look to possibly improve the team?

How can you watch OKC manhandle the Knicks with young depth and not think investing time in developing the youth on the court could be beneficial?

How could watch OKC switch, trap, blitz, double-team, play zone etc with a historically great defense while the other coach has been running the same defense forever no matter the personnel and not think there could be some possible improvements to the coach's defensive strategy?

How could you watch Brunson pound the air out of the ball year after year no matter how much talent he has around him while the team plays near the slowest pace in the league once again and not think there could possibly be some improvement in the coach's offensive strategy?

Who is the new coach you want to get?

[El Poochio]

Bench sucks, Thibs suck. Both can be true at the same time you dont have to pick a side lol

Nobody has ever said the bench is good, that's just a strawman argument these posters use to defend Tom. Everyone says the bench needs to play, regardless of outcome, like the Celtics don't have a good bench at all but they still play more than ours.

Not you but I definitely saw some wild takes like our bench isnt some of the worst in the league, we havent been aggresive enough to address it and coach predictably fails to unearth diamond from the rough

I dont know which one is a more wild take though, that or people claiming players excessive minutes arent a problem

[NiceLikeChrist]

Their offense was simple… put KAT in the pick and roll and attack his drop coverage for an easy floater 65% shot.

If you get the Brunson switch against SGA or Jdub, attack it straight away with no pick. 70% shooting against that.

Rinse and repeat.

That’s why Brunson and KAT can never work. Two black holes on defense.

Afraid you are right. Adding Mitch will help some in the paint though.
Brunson is a bit weak as a defender, so the point of attack will always be weak defensively.

And there is our other problem. Too bad we let Bryant go.

Plenty of teams are defensively weak at the 1-2 and still have better defense than us. Those teams are flaring, trapping, active hands, rotating, switching, mixing in zones and other coverages. All things that are possible when your team is energized and able to give max effort.

The Cavs were running a lineup with garland, okoro, dean wade, Ty Jerome, and Allen out there in the clutch against OKC starters. Threw some zone in there and played competitive defense. They closed the game with garland, Mitchell, and strus all on the floor. Go back and watch how active they are and flying all around the perimeter. None of them are great defenders.

OKC offense isn’t anything incredible. We just lack the energy and coaching required to defend any reasonably good offense.

[Besart19]

whoever coaches this team needs to realise that Jalen Brunson is a mix of Iverson, Harden, Curry and Billups and not a mix of Stockton, Payton, Kidd and Nash... If you want him to be a superstar and MVP caliber player you need at least one more fascilitator who can also shoot above 40% from three with him constantly on the floor and run him more off curls, back screens and finding him open on the weaksides off the ball like Curry does and was doing in the playoffs after struggling might in his first 2 or 3 postseasons runs... at least when the opponent puts a big wing on him or traps and double teams all the time... or even when he is full court pressured... you also cant leave the opp defense to settle down with having him dribbling the ball for 10+ seconds just to bring the ball up court... thats all coaching... dont forget that they are only actors and they can only do so little to improvise something when the script is broken or they forget a line or two of the script

[NiceLikeChrist]

Memphis: 24-14, 15 guys avg 10 mpg or more, no player over 30 mpg

Houston: 25-12, 11 players avg 10 mpg or more. Only one starter over 33 mpg

OKC: 31-6, 13 guys 10 mpg or more, only one starter over 33 mpg

Cleveland: 33-4, 11 guys 10 mpg or more, no starter over 31 mpg

Knicks: 25-14, easiest strength of schedule in the league by the way. 4 out of 5 starters 35 mpg+. KAT will join the club soon

We have a championship caliber starting 5. We don’t need the best bench in the league. It’s okay if our bench is less talented than others. Our starters make up for that. The coaches job is to figure out how to utilize the bench to put the starters in position to win the game for us.

Nobody is asking for the bench to come in and go up 20. We just want the starters to get more rest since we know the game is ultimately on their backs. It’s really not rocket science.

[Reign23]

even without a clear cut overreation I think this was our worst loss and defense in the last 2-3 years.
OG and Mikals performance might be the worst I've seen a Knicks wingduo play in my 25 years as a fan... and I saw plenty of bad ones
jesus..what a stinkbomb.

[Reign23]

sad

wb

[whocares1]

Problem - Teams have adjusted to Brunson from last year & they have the big guards to slow him down. Thibs is still running the offense through Brunson even though the team as a whole has changed.

Solution - Run the offense through KAT and incorporate more of an inside out game which forces opposing teams to react to Towns and his ability spread the ball.

Just doing motion and read and react isn’t going to work with Mikal, Towns & OG. You have to actually tailor your offense to the players on your team.

OG excels with post ups and backdoor cuts with the occasional catch and shoot. Relegating him to catch and shoots, ISO’s and a post ups here and there is misusing him. Mikal works as a secondary playmaker for others who does backdoor cuts and midrange catch and shoots. Relegating him to the corner with ISO’s and catch and shoots is mis using him. I could keep going. The bench is weak but this is why you stagger minutes. It’s common sense that the average fan understands but an nba coach doesn’t is perplexing. Tom probably understands this and just doesn’t give a fu*k, he’s doing it his way.

Well this idiot is about to find a mutiny on his hand because OG & Mikal are doing silent protests if anyone is really paying attention.

This is just wrong on all fronts. Brunsons struggles aren’t bc teams adjusted. We literally watched Brunson drop 40+ multiple games in a row with a bigger defender on him and an elite rim protector to meet him at the rim in the PLAYOFFS.

Secondly we run our offense through him bc it has worked…in the playoffs. You know what’s never worked before? Running an offense through Towns. He is a great complimentary offensive player but he is not Giannis. I repeat he is not Giannis. He is not someone you give extra responsibility to. He is a scoring juggernaut with some passing ability but running an offense through Towns has never worked in any meaningful game ever.

Honestly scheme wise, the Knicks need to run the 1/5 pick and roll way more and I mean way more. KAT and Brunson have been great at times but there’s too many times KAT is just being used as a floor spacer for Brunson when he should be freeing him up like Hartenstein did the season before.

The biggest issue is what happened to Brunsons three point shot. None of this works if Brunson doesn’t take and make threes at HIGH VOLUME. If he isn’t playing like he did against New Orleans this season, we are significantly worse basketball team. The other guys like OG and Mikal will find their way if he’s able to play the way he did last season he just hasn’t.

[Reign23]

Took my dad to the game today as a christmas present. Row 1 right under the hoop. Unfortunate they decided to play their worst game of the year lmao. Didnt expect the highlight of the night to be shaking Tracey Morgan’s hand a chopping it up for a few minutes. The guy behind us was giving Mikal the business with the heckling lmao

damn, how much was 1 ticket for those seats?

[Reign23]

make the jimmy butler trade

who do you give up?
both teams are first apron and can't take on more salary.

[Kampuchea]

Missed the game, didn't miss much. Lets recover and take it out on the Bucks tomorrow.

[Adelheid]

whoever coaches this team needs to realise that Jalen Brunson is a mix of Iverson, Harden, Curry and Billups and not a mix of Stockton, Payton, Kidd and Nash... If you want him to be a superstar and MVP caliber player you need at least one more fascilitator who can also shoot above 40% from three with him constantly on the floor and run him more off curls, back screens and finding him open on the weaksides off the ball like Curry does and was doing in the playoffs after struggling might in his first 2 or 3 postseasons runs... at least when the opponent puts a big wing on him or traps and double teams all the time... or even when he is full court pressured... you also cant leave the opp defense to settle down with having him dribbling the ball for 10+ seconds just to bring the ball up court... thats all coaching... dont forget that they are only actors and they can only do so little to improvise something when the script is broken or they forget a line or two of the script

That is what Towns and Mikal are supposed to be. They can create and facilitate, but the captain seems to have a different idea

[kNicksGmen]

not trying to compare to last year, but i remember one cool stat about last year's team was they almost never got blown out. all of their losses were by like 4-8 points. at least post OG trade, don't remember before that. but I remember when we got blown out by the pacers in the playoffs it was like o **** this is the first time we've been blown out in forever.

this year it feels like it's happened a lot. even if maybe we came back in some games to make the score look more respectable.

[MrDollarBills]

This is the most accountability I’ve seen from him. He must feel the pressure from Leon.

Read on Twitter

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The team looked completely unprepared to play from a physical and mental standpoint. The first game against these guys the level of activity and focus was playoff level. Last night looked like a team that didn't even want to be there. I'll go out on a limb and say that the team we saw in Game 1 was the actual Knicks and not the tired and sluggish group from yesterday.

I've talked about minutes to death, so I'm over it and i don't wanna get involved in the stuff being said back and forth, but both OG and Mikal looked burnt out. Not good.

Tom has gotta get the guys back on the same page and figure out how to pace them. I'm also a bit concerned about Josh's comments. He was by far the only guy who was hustling and trying to compete. What's happening in the locker room?

[Iron Mantis]

This is the most accountability I’ve seen from him. He must feel the pressure from Leon.

Read on Twitter

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He might be losing the team.

Tom is a cool guy. They need to "promote" him to an office job.

As head coach, he cannot take the Knicks, or any team, to the promised land.