Hawks Interested In Brandon Ingram

[RealGM Wiretap]

The Atlanta Hawks could pursue a trade at the deadline for Brandon Ingram following the season-ending injury to Jalen Johnson. Atlanta is attempting to make the playoffs this season as they owe their first round pick outright to the San Antonio Spurs. The Hawks are currently in ninth place in the Eastern Conference.

"Brandon Ingram is a guy who's been on the trade block for months, but with these last few days, and in addition to Zack LaVine, same case, they've been on the trade [block], I'm seeing a little bit of a warmup out there in some talks between involving these two players.

"Specifically, keep an eye on the Atlanta Hawks. They just lost their star wing Jalen Johnson for the season, they may start to get interested in making a move especially for Brandon Ingram. Keep an eye on that."

Ingram is on a $36 million expiring contract, which could allow him to effectively be a rental player. Ingram is averaging 22.2 points, 5.6 rebounds and 5.2 assists in 33.1 minutes over 18 games this season.

Via Brian Windhorst/ESPN

[Rek]

If true, I have to assume they want to build a package around Capella.

Question is - who are they willing to give up that makes NOP say Yes?

[puja21]

If true, I have to assume they want to build a package around Capella.

Question is - who are they willing to give up that makes NOP say Yes?

Question is what are OTHER teams offering NOP

At this point, Hawks just have to be the best offer even if it's all poo poo platters

Pelicans should be tanking; already out of it, Zion not doing B2Bs, Murray has missed a ton of time and Herb done for the year.

Pels also need to prioritize keeping mins maxed for Missi, Trey3, Hawkins, and BBJ

having Ingram only hurts them

[Cassius]

One of the requirements would be for him to take out his braids and grow a small afro like the rest of their rotation.

[Rek]

If true, I have to assume they want to build a package around Capella.

Question is - who are they willing to give up that makes NOP say Yes?

Question is what are OTHER teams offering NOP

At this point, Hawks just have to be the best offer even if it's all poo poo platters

Pelicans should be tanking; already out of it, Zion not doing B2Bs, Murray has missed a ton of time and Herb done for the year.

Pels also need to prioritize keeping mins maxed for Missi, Trey3, Hawkins, and BBJ

having Ingram only hurts them

I don't disagree with any of that.

But, I have to assume that the only reason that BI is still on their roster is because they have convinced themselves that they can land a better haul than what has been offered.

Not saying I think they're right. Just seems to be how they are operating.

[Pickled Prunes]

If true, I have to assume they want to build a package around Capella.

Question is - who are they willing to give up that makes NOP say Yes?

Question is what are OTHER teams offering NOP

At this point, Hawks just have to be the best offer even if it's all poo poo platters

Pelicans should be tanking; already out of it, Zion not doing B2Bs, Murray has missed a ton of time and Herb done for the year.

Pels also need to prioritize keeping mins maxed for Missi, Trey3, Hawkins, and BBJ

having Ingram only hurts them

I don't disagree with any of that.

But, I have to assume that the only reason that BI is still on their roster is because they have convinced themselves that they can land a better haul than what has been offered.

Not saying I think they're right. Just seems to be how they are operating.

The offer has to be fairly decent to be better than cap space/relief. People worry about players "walking for nothing", but cap space is better than a late 1st and salary filler.

If NOP lets Ingram walk and renounce Jordan Hawkins' $4.7m team option, they will be just under the projected 25/26 cap. If they trade Ingram for $36m in salaries they don't want... that is a high price for a few draft assets. I think they have been comfortable letting him walk all along.

[puja21]

Question is what are OTHER teams offering NOP

At this point, Hawks just have to be the best offer even if it's all poo poo platters

Pelicans should be tanking; already out of it, Zion not doing B2Bs, Murray has missed a ton of time and Herb done for the year.

Pels also need to prioritize keeping mins maxed for Missi, Trey3, Hawkins, and BBJ

having Ingram only hurts them

I don't disagree with any of that.

But, I have to assume that the only reason that BI is still on their roster is because they have convinced themselves that they can land a better haul than what has been offered.

Not saying I think they're right. Just seems to be how they are operating.

The offer has to be fairly decent to be better than cap space/relief. People worry about players "walking for nothing", but cap space is better than a late 1st and salary filler.

If NOP lets Ingram walk and renounce Jordan Hawkins' $4.7m team option, they will be just under the projected 25/26 cap. If they trade Ingram for $36m in salaries they don't want... that is a high price for a few draft assets. I think they have been comfortable letting him walk all along.

Cap space overrated IMO

When was the last time a premiere player got to unrestricted free agency?

Problem (Irving), undervalued (Brunson), and old/injured (George) players hit UFA but it's been a few years since top guys were going that route (Lebron, DWade). Recently, more players are doing the sign and force (Dame, KD, AD, Harden etc)

I'd much rather have picks to get those force-out guys via trade, rather than signing PG13 to a max (or maybe Zion next time, only to have him flame out like Ben SImmons did)

Bigger issue is Pelicans are over the cap next year with or without Ingram -- him leaving via UFA provides no salary cap relief to add other guys

[Pickled Prunes]

I don't disagree with any of that.

But, I have to assume that the only reason that BI is still on their roster is because they have convinced themselves that they can land a better haul than what has been offered.

Not saying I think they're right. Just seems to be how they are operating.

The offer has to be fairly decent to be better than cap space/relief. People worry about players "walking for nothing", but cap space is better than a late 1st and salary filler.

If NOP lets Ingram walk and renounce Jordan Hawkins' $4.7m team option, they will be just under the projected 25/26 cap. If they trade Ingram for $36m in salaries they don't want... that is a high price for a few draft assets. I think they have been comfortable letting him walk all along.

Cap space overrated IMO

When was the last time a premiere player got to unrestricted free agency?

Problem (Irving), undervalued (Brunson), and old/injured (George) players hit UFA but it's been a few years since top guys were going that route (Lebron, DWade). Recently, more players are doing the sign and force (Dame, KD, AD, Harden etc)

I'd much rather have picks to get those force-out guys via trade, rather than signing PG13 to a max (or maybe Zion next time, only to have him flame out like Ben SImmons did)

Bigger issue is Pelicans are over the cap next year with or without Ingram -- him leaving via UFA provides no salary cap relief to add other guys

I wouldn't call Ingram "premier" and I didn't say NOP didn't want to trade him. I just said the offer had to be fairly decent. NOP will not take the best of all the "poo poo platters" as was suggested earlier in this thread. It will be a real offer or they'll let him walk... Even then, they will probably have the option to get something back in a S&T.

Players don't often get signed as a free agent because very few teams have cap space each year; for good teams it's almost never. With that in mind, I would consider a S&T to be a free agent acquisition. Sooo...

KD, twice
Lebron, twice
Kawhi
Shaq
Nash
Bosh
Horford
Aldridge
Do you count Kobe if he was a FA but re-signed with LAL?

And even though PG13 is old and injured, most GM's would rather have had him last summer than BI, who is also often injured and has played 12 fewer games than PG this season. Only in his rookie year did BI play more than 64 games. It's pretty bleak!

[dubbmotta]

I don't disagree with any of that.

But, I have to assume that the only reason that BI is still on their roster is because they have convinced themselves that they can land a better haul than what has been offered.

Not saying I think they're right. Just seems to be how they are operating.

The offer has to be fairly decent to be better than cap space/relief. People worry about players "walking for nothing", but cap space is better than a late 1st and salary filler.

If NOP lets Ingram walk and renounce Jordan Hawkins' $4.7m team option, they will be just under the projected 25/26 cap. If they trade Ingram for $36m in salaries they don't want... that is a high price for a few draft assets. I think they have been comfortable letting him walk all along.

Cap space overrated IMO

When was the last time a premiere player got to unrestricted free agency?

Problem (Irving), undervalued (Brunson), and old/injured (George) players hit UFA but it's been a few years since top guys were going that route (Lebron, DWade). Recently, more players are doing the sign and force (Dame, KD, AD, Harden etc)

I'd much rather have picks to get those force-out guys via trade, rather than signing PG13 to a max (or maybe Zion next time, only to have him flame out like Ben SImmons did)

Bigger issue is Pelicans are over the cap next year with or without Ingram -- him leaving via UFA provides no salary cap relief to add other guys

I agree cap space is overrated when you are a poverty team like the Pelicans..no1 that is top tier trying to play for them

[Pickled Prunes]

The offer has to be fairly decent to be better than cap space/relief. People worry about players "walking for nothing", but cap space is better than a late 1st and salary filler.

If NOP lets Ingram walk and renounce Jordan Hawkins' $4.7m team option, they will be just under the projected 25/26 cap. If they trade Ingram for $36m in salaries they don't want... that is a high price for a few draft assets. I think they have been comfortable letting him walk all along.

Cap space overrated IMO

When was the last time a premiere player got to unrestricted free agency?

Problem (Irving), undervalued (Brunson), and old/injured (George) players hit UFA but it's been a few years since top guys were going that route (Lebron, DWade). Recently, more players are doing the sign and force (Dame, KD, AD, Harden etc)

I'd much rather have picks to get those force-out guys via trade, rather than signing PG13 to a max (or maybe Zion next time, only to have him flame out like Ben SImmons did)

Bigger issue is Pelicans are over the cap next year with or without Ingram -- him leaving via UFA provides no salary cap relief to add other guys

I agree cap space is overrated when you are a poverty team like the Pelicans..no1 that is top tier trying to play for them

I think you both misunderstand my point... and the value of cap space/relief. The NOP would be foolish to take back salary beyond this season if it's for players on negative contracts. They will be above the salary floor next season without adding a dollar. Why would they take on $36m next season (and possibly beyond) just to land a couple of picks? My response was to the suggestion that NOP would be taking back a "poo poo platter". All I said was that the offer would have to be decent.

At this point, the cap space/relief isn't to try and sign a free agent. If they can get below the cap, they can get picks by renting out their cap space. Better picks than they can get by trading Ingram. And if the heavens open up and give Zion a healthy season, they would have the space/picks to bring someone in via trade. Why would they give up that flexibility for a late 1st and/or a couple of 2nds?

[puja21]

The offer has to be fairly decent to be better than cap space/relief. People worry about players "walking for nothing", but cap space is better than a late 1st and salary filler.

If NOP lets Ingram walk and renounce Jordan Hawkins' $4.7m team option, they will be just under the projected 25/26 cap. If they trade Ingram for $36m in salaries they don't want... that is a high price for a few draft assets. I think they have been comfortable letting him walk all along.

Cap space overrated IMO

When was the last time a premiere player got to unrestricted free agency?

Problem (Irving), undervalued (Brunson), and old/injured (George) players hit UFA but it's been a few years since top guys were going that route (Lebron, DWade). Recently, more players are doing the sign and force (Dame, KD, AD, Harden etc)

I'd much rather have picks to get those force-out guys via trade, rather than signing PG13 to a max (or maybe Zion next time, only to have him flame out like Ben SImmons did)

Bigger issue is Pelicans are over the cap next year with or without Ingram -- him leaving via UFA provides no salary cap relief to add other guys

I wouldn't call Ingram "premier" and I didn't say NOP didn't want to trade him. I just said the offer had to be fairly decent. NOP will not take the best of all the "poo poo platters" as was suggested earlier in this thread. It will be a real offer or they'll let him walk... Even then, they will probably have the option to get something back in a S&T.

Players don't often get signed as a free agent because very few teams have cap space each year; for good teams it's almost never. With that in mind, I would consider a S&T to be a free agent acquisition. Sooo...

KD, twice
Lebron, twice
Kawhi
Shaq
Nash
Bosh
Horford
Aldridge
Do you count Kobe if he was a FA but re-signed with LAL?

And even though PG13 is old and injured, most GM's would rather have had him last summer than BI, who is also often injured and has played 12 fewer games than PG this season. Only in his rookie year did BI play more than 64 games. It's pretty bleak!

I think you’re misunderstanding my comment about top players

I was saying cap space (which NOP doesn’t even get by letting BI go) doesn’t give teams as much as in the last CBA bc top stars dont go UFA

[puja21]

At this point, the cap space/relief isn't to try and sign a free agent. If they can get below the cap, they can get picks by renting out their cap space. Better picks than they can get by trading Ingram. And if the heavens open up and give Zion a healthy season, they would have the space/picks to bring someone in via trade. Why would they give up that flexibility for a late 1st and/or a couple of 2nds?

New Orleans — without including any cap holds or rookie salary slots— is already millions over the salary cap, even if you erase BI from the books

Flexibility and/or having sufficient cap space to rent out would require other (major) moves on top of this

e.g. moving out an entire other salary slot without taking back any money… or trading another salary slot just for a matching-size cap space rental + picks.

(And the latter is something any non tax paying team can do without having cap space anyway, so exists in a vacuum from letting Ingram walk)

[Pickled Prunes]

At this point, the cap space/relief isn't to try and sign a free agent. If they can get below the cap, they can get picks by renting out their cap space. Better picks than they can get by trading Ingram. And if the heavens open up and give Zion a healthy season, they would have the space/picks to bring someone in via trade. Why would they give up that flexibility for a late 1st and/or a couple of 2nds?

New Orleans — without including any cap holds or rookie salary slots— is already millions over the salary cap, even if you erase BI from the books

Flexibility and/or having sufficient cap space to rent out would require other (major) moves on top of this

e.g. moving out an entire other salary slot without taking back any money… or trading another salary slot just for a matching-size cap space rental + picks.

(And the latter is something any non tax paying team can do without having cap space anyway, so exists in a vacuum from letting Ingram walk)

They could easily get under the cap if they decide to tank next season. But even if they don't, they would have to take back $30m+ to get anything in a BI trade. I don't see them bringing in that kind of money to next seasons salary if it is for players they don't want. This is a cost conscious (cheap) organization. I don't see them paying $36m for a poo poo platter of assets. That is real money coming out of peoples pockets. Money scheduled to come off the books in a couple of months. They save $36m and gain flexibility by letting BI walk. They would need to be offered something decent to keep that money on the books.

They can take on money if they are under the tax, but I think NOP might be too cheap to do this. If they are tanking, I expect them to live as close to the salary floor as possible. If they are trying to win next season, they need space under the tax or real assets back. Neither situation suggests that they would/should take back a poo poo platter for BI. Once again, I'm not suggesting that an offer would be good or great, just decent. That doesn't seem controversial to me.

[Pickled Prunes]

Cap space overrated IMO

When was the last time a premiere player got to unrestricted free agency?

Problem (Irving), undervalued (Brunson), and old/injured (George) players hit UFA but it's been a few years since top guys were going that route (Lebron, DWade). Recently, more players are doing the sign and force (Dame, KD, AD, Harden etc)

I'd much rather have picks to get those force-out guys via trade, rather than signing PG13 to a max (or maybe Zion next time, only to have him flame out like Ben SImmons did)

Bigger issue is Pelicans are over the cap next year with or without Ingram -- him leaving via UFA provides no salary cap relief to add other guys

I wouldn't call Ingram "premier" and I didn't say NOP didn't want to trade him. I just said the offer had to be fairly decent. NOP will not take the best of all the "poo poo platters" as was suggested earlier in this thread. It will be a real offer or they'll let him walk... Even then, they will probably have the option to get something back in a S&T.

Players don't often get signed as a free agent because very few teams have cap space each year; for good teams it's almost never. With that in mind, I would consider a S&T to be a free agent acquisition. Sooo...

KD, twice
Lebron, twice
Kawhi
Shaq
Nash
Bosh
Horford
Aldridge
Do you count Kobe if he was a FA but re-signed with LAL?

And even though PG13 is old and injured, most GM's would rather have had him last summer than BI, who is also often injured and has played 12 fewer games than PG this season. Only in his rookie year did BI play more than 64 games. It's pretty bleak!

I think you’re misunderstanding my comment about top players

I was saying cap space (which NOP doesn’t even get by letting BI go) doesn’t give teams as much as in the last CBA bc top stars dont go UFA

You are misunderstanding me. The space/relief isn't because anyone would "chose" to go to NOP. (Highly unlikely!) The space/relief is valuable because 1) NOP is cheap and that is $36m they don't have to spend. 2) The further you are under the tax, the more flexible you are. If they are going to reset, they need to get their salary down asap. (This conversation began before the Murray injury, but it's even more true now.) Letting BI walk would put them about $72m under the 1st apron.... not that I would expect them to use it.

Can you imagine a team (if it were allowed) just paying $36m cash for a late 1st? That is what NOP would be doing if they took on players they didn't want beyond this season. The offer would have to be decent to be better than the space/relief.

Including Ingram's $38m, NOP will have $67m in cap holds and are projected to be $69m over the cap. That's pretty close. What will become of Zion? I doubt they waive him, but they could easily take back less money in a deal. Someone will want CJ as well.

The bottom line is, this isn't BOS, this is NOP. They are cheap and won't spend a dime more than they need to.

[puja21]

I wouldn't call Ingram "premier" and I didn't say NOP didn't want to trade him. I just said the offer had to be fairly decent. NOP will not take the best of all the "poo poo platters" as was suggested earlier in this thread. It will be a real offer or they'll let him walk... Even then, they will probably have the option to get something back in a S&T.

Players don't often get signed as a free agent because very few teams have cap space each year; for good teams it's almost never. With that in mind, I would consider a S&T to be a free agent acquisition. Sooo...

KD, twice
Lebron, twice
Kawhi
Shaq
Nash
Bosh
Horford
Aldridge
Do you count Kobe if he was a FA but re-signed with LAL?

And even though PG13 is old and injured, most GM's would rather have had him last summer than BI, who is also often injured and has played 12 fewer games than PG this season. Only in his rookie year did BI play more than 64 games. It's pretty bleak!

I think you’re misunderstanding my comment about top players

I was saying cap space (which NOP doesn’t even get by letting BI go) doesn’t give teams as much as in the last CBA bc top stars dont go UFA

You are misunderstanding me. The space/relief isn't because anyone would "chose" to go to NOP. (Highly unlikely!) The space/relief is valuable because 1) NOP is cheap and that is $36m they don't have to spend. 2) The further you are under the tax, the more flexible you are. If they are going to reset, they need to get their salary down asap. (This conversation began before the Murray injury, but it's even more true now.) Letting BI walk would put them about $72m under the 1st apron.... not that I would expect them to use it.

Can you imagine a team (if it were allowed) just paying $36m cash for a late 1st? That is what NOP would be doing if they took on players they didn't want beyond this season. The offer would have to be decent to be better than the space/relief.

Including Ingram's $38m, NOP will have $67m in cap holds and are projected to be $69m over the cap. That's pretty close. What will become of Zion? I doubt they waive him, but they could easily take back less money in a deal. Someone will want CJ as well.

The bottom line is, this isn't BOS, this is NOP. They are cheap and won't spend a dime more than they need to.

The comments about the Pels being cheap are true -- just not relevant to BI

Cap space is better than a late 1st and salary filler.

No, because they have to move off other guys still to have any cap space to rent

Can you imagine a team (if it were allowed) just paying $36m cash for a late 1st?

This doesn't even make sense.
1) There are 22 games left in the Pels' season. He's owed <$10M of his expiring deal.
2) This happens all the time -- Raptors just dumped Siakam when he was in the last year of a 38M deal with 41 games remaining
They got 3 FRPs and only had to take on expiring Bruce Brown (they exercised the team option however).

That is what NOP would be doing if they took on players they didn't want beyond this season.

This is the flaw IMO -- you're assuming they have to take on salary beyond 24/25 to move Ingram.
And you're assuming they can (or even will) move other guys in the next 3 days to make that "rentable" cap space appear.
It's going to be hard to move CJM by Feb 6.
Hard to make a decision on Zion.

There just aren't many scenarios where NOP keeps BI past the deadline and it "helps" them financially.

They would have to blow everything up this summer -- dump CJ and Zion or Murray. Maybe even Herb.
And Trey3's money stll starts next year (between 25 and 31M for each of the next 4 seasons).
He's not going anywhere.