Official Immanuel Quickley Thread

[PushDaRock]

how far away is IQ from trae? could he get into that area of impact?

Let's not compare him to Trae. Trae is a low efficiency, no defense, empty stats player.

I'm hoping IQ will be a better overall player, even if he's not as good offensively.

I’m not sure how you can call Trae an inefficient player when he’s at 58 TS% while averaging 25 PPG for his career thus far. That is really good for a player of his size and position — especially on high volume — and even in a down year so far he’s at 56 TS%. He turns the ball over a lot (2nd most in the NBA this season), but he also leads the league in assists by a wide margin (2.3 more than Jokic and Cade who are 2 and 3). The big issue with Trae has always been on the defensive end, but he has been only a slightly negative impact player on that end the past few seasons.

When it comes to Quickley, he’s probably never going to reach Trae’s level on the offensive end because he doesn’t have the same playmaking abilities. I think he can be a really good player that gives you 20/5/7 type numbers in his prime while holding his own on the defensive end though which would be a really good #3. He’s probably our 2nd best player now, so it’s been wild to me that so many people were trashing his game/predicting that Shead and/or Mitchell could replace him.

Issue with Trae is his game is really difficult to translate over to the playoffs. His 58 TS% is above league average which is good especially for his position but his eFG% of 50.5% career is not so great. Relying on FT's in the Playoffs is not really the recipe for success as we have seen with someone like Derozan. He's played 27 playoff games and he's put up 46 eFG% and 53 TS% so it's a pretty significant drop.

[gp2015]

how far away is IQ from trae? could he get into that area of impact?

Let's not compare him to Trae. Trae is a low efficiency, no defense, empty stats player.

I'm hoping IQ will be a better overall player, even if he's not as good offensively.

I’m not sure how you can call Trae an inefficient player when he’s at 58 TS% while averaging 25 PPG for his career thus far. That is really good for a player of his size and position — especially on high volume — and even in a down year so far he’s at 56 TS%. He turns the ball over a lot (2nd most in the NBA this season), but he also leads the league in assists by a wide margin (2.3 more than Jokic and Cade who are 2 and 3). The big issue with Trae has always been on the defensive end, but he has been only a slightly negative impact player on that end the past few seasons.

When it comes to Quickley, he’s probably never going to reach Trae’s level on the offensive end because he doesn’t have the same playmaking abilities. I think he can be a really good player that gives you 20/5/7 type numbers in his prime while holding his own on the defensive end though which would be a really good #3. He’s probably our 2nd best player now, so it’s been wild to me that so many people were trashing his game/predicting that Shead and/or Mitchell could replace him.

Okay maybe not low efficiency but about league average efficiency. Add in the fact that he turns the ball over a lot (even though he has a lot of assists) and is a not a good defensive player, that doesn't equal a winning player to me.

I also get the feeling that he thinks he's a superstar level player so it's difficult for other players to play with him because he's so ball dominant (minus this season). That's just my opinion though.

Agreed about IQ. Not so sure why so many people are so quick to trash him. Thinking Shead and Mitchell could replace him is laughable.

[Ell Curry]

how far away is IQ from trae? could he get into that area of impact?

I think a more similar type of guy is Jamal Murray with adequate instead of bad defence. Murray is at like 20-6-4 on like 46/39/86 splits the last 5 years, and if Jokic wasn't on his team he'd grab another cheap assist or 2 a night. Quickley is at like 16/4/4 on 44/38/84 splits since he broke out as a 3rd year player (basically 2 full seasons) but that was in 29 minutes a game so bump up the raw numbers like 20% to match Murray/normal starting PG numbers and obviously he was off-ball more with Brunson around so add a couple assists (maybe fairly cheap PG ones, but they'll be there).

Quickley has been a worse long-2 shooter than Murray and so his 2pt shooting is worse, but Quickley also gets up more 3s and draws more fouls, and you want a guy to pull up from 3 and not 19 feet anyways (especially if he's a good 3pt shooter). Their shooting stats at the rim, from 3-10 and 10-16 are pretty damn similar.

Actually looking at where they shoot from, he and Coby White shoot almost the identical diet of shots.

So, I'd say with no Jokic as our #1, it's asking a lot for him to be a #2 on a contender. But Quickley should be a very solid #3 scorer and starting PG who doesn't elevate your game with his passing but can be your #2/#3 playmaker. And unlike White, he should have a complimentary all-star frontcourt player in Barnes instead of an aging Vucevic or Demar doing his own thing.

If we nail a pick this year or next (extra first from Pacers) and get a #1 or #2 level of player, we're in solid shape. If we don't, and say come out of these 2 drafts with only say another #3, a #4 and a good bench guy, and Quickley is our 2nd best player, we're basically going have to make a Mitchell or Gobert style trade where we move 4 or 5 firsts and say one of Dick or Walter to go after a proper star with Barnes. On a multiple playoff series winning team, IQ is a #3 or #4, and over the 2nd half of his contract, he'll be making #3 money, whereas right now he's making exactly after #2 money. Barnes will be making right around bottom of the barrel #1 money (along with Cade, Wagner and Mobley) so we should be able to fit in another weak #1 or high #2 in terms of money, just need to turn Barrett + Olynyk's 40M into that guy, presumably with picks and young talent to do it.

[RaptorLakerJay]

Didn't watch the game, but can someone tell me how IQ's defense was against the Clippers?

[aminiaturebuddha]

Didn't watch the game, but can someone tell me how IQ's defense was against the Clippers?

It was a small sample because he's still on a minutes restriction and only played 17 minutes, but I thought he looked much better.

I think playing with Davion and Shead in practice this year, and seeing how those guys play is really going to help him. IQ doesn't quite have the lateral quickness of those two, but he's got more length which should help him compensate a bit. I think he's got the ability to become at minimum an average defender, and possibly a bit better than that.

[RaptorLakerJay]

Didn't watch the game, but can someone tell me how IQ's defense was against the Clippers?

It was a small sample because he's still on a minutes restriction and only played 17 minutes, but I thought he looked much better.

I think playing with Davion and Shead in practice this year, and seeing how those guys play is really going to help him. IQ doesn't quite have the lateral quickness of those two, but he's got more length which should help him compensate a bit. I think he's got the ability to become at minimum an average defender, and possibly a bit better than that.

Awesome, thank you so much!!

Glad to hear that he's improved in that area. I agree that having dogs like Davion and Shead is super beneficial. IQ talked about how he gets dogged by them lol.

[YogurtProducer]

Only was half watching - did IQ get hurt or just mins restricted still?

[Jerry Lucas]

A lot of posters are putting way too much stock into IQ vs. Davion starting in terms of the difference in W/L results between them this season. I've posted this elsewhere before, but it's the starting trio of IQ-Gradey-RJ at the 1-2-3 that doesn't work in general.

If Gradey or RJ were swapped with Ochai, IMO there would be no difference between IQ-RJ-Ochai, IQ-Gradey-Ochai, or Davion-Gradey-RJ. If anything it would be reasonable to expect that the 2 non-Davion combos would be superior.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Only was half watching - did IQ get hurt or just mins restricted still?

Just minutes restriction according to Darko in the post-game presser.

[dballislife]

he can really dribble the ball and pass the ball and shoot it, a player like this is automatically very useful

[YogurtProducer]

A lot of posters are putting way too much stock into IQ vs. Davion starting in terms of the difference in W/L results between them this season. I've posted this elsewhere before, but it's the starting trio of IQ-Gradey-RJ at the 1-2-3 that doesn't work in general.

If Gradey or RJ were swapped with Ochai, IMO there would be no difference between IQ-RJ-Ochai, IQ-Gradey-Ochai, or Davion-Gradey-RJ. If anything it would be reasonable to expect that the 2 non-Davion combos would be superior.

If IQ played 30 more games this year I would bet we have like 4-6 more wins? IQ playing means less minutes for Davion, less mins for Shead, less mins for Walter, etc. Those are all net "wins" as IQ is just a way, way, way better player.

You can argue fit or whatever, but simply having more actual NBA caliber players is huge.

That early stretch in the year without IQ and Barnes where we went like 2-11 when both were out and we lost 4 or 5 games by less than a possession or two almost all could've entirely flipped right there. We played A LOT of basketball this year with no one on the floor you could count on to initiate offence.

[tsherkin]

[
Issue with Trae is his game is really difficult to translate over to the playoffs. His 58 TS% is above league average which is good especially for his position but his eFG% of 50.5% career is not so great. Relying on FT's in the Playoffs is not really the recipe for success as we have seen with someone like Derozan. He's played 27 playoff games and he's put up 46 eFG% and 53 TS% so it's a pretty significant drop.

I know this was a while back, but just to add...

Trae is a little dude. Little dudes struggle to score effectively in the playoffs, especially if they don't have a huge caboose like Jalen Bruson, or they aren't among the greatest mid-range shooters in league history (like Paul). Or they're Steph, but both he and Brunson are also taller than Trae. Young doesn't have a lot in the middle, and he isnt an ATG 3pt shooter. He draws well, but he can't actually make shots a lot, so yeah, the DeRozan analogy is quite apt.

Trae would be much better as a #2 to a real high-quality volume scorer. That would be a much more tenable setup, given his playmaking ability.

[WuTang_CMB]

slowly rounding into shape.

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[ArthurVandelay]

slowly rounding into shape.

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The narrative on IQ went way too negative.

He may be overpaid a bit but he isn't an albatross if he's healthy. Raptors paid for the belief his numbers as a starter in a small sample size would translate over a full season. He hasn't been healthy enough to show that...yet. If he is averaging 18/5/7 on good percentages, he's well worth the deal. Going to have to start looking at contracts % of cap vs total until the new financial reality of the league sinks in.

[Thaddy]

He should be pumping more threes and abusing the pick and roll with Barnes as the roller. I don't get why that isn't our bread and butter. We should find a stretch 4 we can play the size we would have on the floor would change our defense for the better.

[KillaSham23]

I went to last night's game. IQ and dick looked awful

[MEDIC]

IQ looks to have the making of an elite role player at best. It's purely dependent of if he is hitting 3's at a high volume & on good %. He has a bit or an in between floater game as well.

After that, things kind of get questionable. Lacks strength, lacks elite handles, lacks a quick first step, lacks above average playmaking skills.

He seems like a Lou Will combo guard. They should be working with him on mastering that role.

[dballislife]

quickley can get to places with his handles, but hes not big or athletic enough to finish over ppl inside consistently, he will often dribble it back out and pass it...he is a good ball handler, passer, and 3 point shooter but then thats about it, he can score a bit at times, hes a 15-16 5-6 guy when everyone is healthy...if a big defender that can shoot is available, im totally ready to move quick

[Ell Curry]

[
Issue with Trae is his game is really difficult to translate over to the playoffs. His 58 TS% is above league average which is good especially for his position but his eFG% of 50.5% career is not so great. Relying on FT's in the Playoffs is not really the recipe for success as we have seen with someone like Derozan. He's played 27 playoff games and he's put up 46 eFG% and 53 TS% so it's a pretty significant drop.

I know this was a while back, but just to add...

Trae is a little dude. Little dudes struggle to score effectively in the playoffs, especially if they don't have a huge caboose like Jalen Bruson, or they aren't among the greatest mid-range shooters in league history (like Paul). Or they're Steph, but both he and Brunson are also taller than Trae. Young doesn't have a lot in the middle, and he isnt an ATG 3pt shooter. He draws well, but he can't actually make shots a lot, so yeah, the DeRozan analogy is quite apt.

Trae would be much better as a #2 to a real high-quality volume scorer. That would be a much more tenable setup, given his playmaking ability.

For whatever reason this trade gave me a Dune like premonition of Kyrie leaving this summer in a sign and trade and Trae being traded there for Max Christie and 35M in other contracts.

[Ell Curry]

quickley can get to places with his handles, but hes not big or athletic enough to finish over ppl inside consistently, he will often dribble it back out and pass it...he is a good ball handler, passer, and 3 point shooter but then thats about it, he can score a bit at times, hes a 15-16 5-6 guy when everyone is healthy...if a big defender that can shoot is available, im totally ready to move quick

I'm higher on him, but if we draft Harper or Jakucionis and they're a star and the fit with Quick doesn't look good together, I could see a deal for a 3+D wing or young center and RJ staying instead.