Djoker wrote:Yea Cousy just turned 96. By the way Pettit is also alive and 91 years old.
Pettit was recently on a podcast. He said some interesting things. ;pp=ygUUYm9iIHBldHRpdCBpbnRlcnZpZXc%3D
Moderators: penbeast0, PaulieWal, Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063
Djoker wrote:Yea Cousy just turned 96. By the way Pettit is also alive and 91 years old.
trex_8063 wrote:Way short on time this go-around, so might only do a POY ballot only....
Absolutely cannot see going lower than [#2] for Bill. Initially even had him #1, but I switched, given '59 is arguable as Pettit's absolutely PEAK, whereas it's probably not even in Bill's top 3.
fwiw, Russell does lead the league in both estimated BPM and estimated VORP this year.
Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd Points Shares
1. Bob Pettit 4 3 0 24 0.686
2. Elgin Baylor 1 2 1 12 0.343
3. Dolph Schayes 1 1 3 11 0.314
4. Bob Cousy 2 0 0 10 0.286
5. Larry Costello 0 1 0 3 0.086
6. Cliff Hagan 0 0 2 2 0.057
7. Richie Guerin 0 0 1 1 0.029
Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd Points Shares
1. Bill Russell 7 0 0 35 1.000
2. Tom Gola 0 3 1 10 0.286
3. Dolph Schayes 0 2 0 6 0.171
4. Woody Sauldsberry 0 1 2 5 0.143
5. Red Kerr 0 1 1 4 0.114
6. Walter Dukes 0 0 1 1 0.029
6. Jim Loscutoff 0 0 1 1 0.029
6. Vern Mikkelsen 0 0 1 1 0.029
Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares
1. Bill Russell 11 1 0 0 0 117 0.975
2. Dolph Schayes 0 7 2 3 0 68 0.567
3. Bob Pettit 1 4 3 4 0 65 0.542
4. Elgin Baylor 0 0 7 4 1 48 0.400
5. Bob Cousy 0 0 0 1 4 7 0.058
6. Cliff Hagan 0 0 0 0 5 5 0.042
7. Paul Arizin 0 0 0 0 2 2 0.017
AEnigma wrote:Votes are tallied. I recorded 11 voters: Djoker, Trex, AEnigma, Eminence, Dutchball97, Dr. Positivity, penbeast0, IlikeShaiGuys, Zeppelin, 70sFan, and trelos. Trex, penbeast, IlikeShaiGuys, eminence abstained from voting for Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year. Please let me know if I seem to have missed or otherwise improperly recorded a vote.
1958-59 Results
(Retro) Offensive Player of the Year — Bob Pettit (2)Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd Points Shares
1. Bob Pettit 4 3 0 24 0.644
2. Elgin Baylor 1 2 1 12 0.343
3. Dolph Schayes 1 1 3 11 0.314
4. Bob Cousy 2 0 0 10 0.286
5. Larry Costello 0 1 0 3 0.086
6. Cliff Hagan 0 0 2 2 0.057
7. Richie Guerin 0 0 1 1 0.029
(Retro) Defensive Player of the Year — Bill Russell (3) (Unanimous)Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd Points Shares
1. Bill Russell 7 0 0 35 1.000
2. Tom Gola 0 3 1 10 0.286
3. Dolph Schayes 0 2 0 6 0.171
4. Woody Sauldsberry 0 1 2 5 0.143
5. Red Kerr 0 1 1 4 0.114
6. Walter Dukes 0 0 1 1 0.029
6. Jim Loscutoff 0 0 1 1 0.029
6. Vern Mikkelsen 0 0 1 1 0.029
Retro Player of the Year — Bill RussellCode: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares
1. Bill Russell 10 1 0 0 0 107 0.973
2. Bob Pettit 1 4 3 3 0 62 0.564
3. Dolph Schayes 0 6 2 3 0 61 0.555
4. Elgin Baylor 0 0 6 4 1 43 0.391
5. Bob Cousy 0 0 0 1 4 7 0.064
6. Cliff Hagan 0 0 0 0 4 4 0.036
7. Paul Arizin 0 0 0 0 2 2 0.018
In the prior project, there were 13 votes, with Dr. Positivity and penbeast overlapping. With those two prior ballots removed, these are the aggregated results of the two projects across 22 total ballots:Spoiler:
1960 thread will open shortly.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
One_and_Done wrote:AEnigma wrote:Votes are tallied. I recorded 11 voters: Djoker, Trex, AEnigma, Eminence, Dutchball97, Dr. Positivity, penbeast0, IlikeShaiGuys, Zeppelin, 70sFan, and trelos. Trex, penbeast, IlikeShaiGuys, eminence abstained from voting for Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year. Please let me know if I seem to have missed or otherwise improperly recorded a vote.
I voted. I'm just not going to vote a full ballot if I don't feel comfortable enough to distinguish between the granular differences in some of the lower level guys.
and then as an elaboration, what I explained in the initial post in the general project thread (which all voters are expected to read):AEnigma wrote:You can vote for any of the three awards — although they must be complete votes
AEnigma wrote:You can pick the awards on which you vote thread to thread, but you must complete a full ballot to be counted: 5 ranked spots for Player of the Year, 3 ranked spots for Offensive/Defensive Player of the Year.
eminence wrote:Whew, justice for Dolph.
AEnigma wrote:eminence wrote:Whew, justice for Dolph.
As predicted, largest departure thus far (and by far) from the previous project.
Top10alltime wrote:Hey I know this is over long time but I wanted to share thoughts:
1958-59:
1. Russell: He will take this title next season is a big surprise to him though, he is prolly not FMVP though, he was great enough in RS, he should have b2b MVPs. I will say it is ok he isn't unanimous, the Celtics in PO dominated more on O than D (GOAT defender at -1.6 is bit underwhelming). His impact in RS is enough, argument against him is Celtics were 2-0 without him, (+14.4 rORtg, -5.5 rDRtg). I hold it enough against him to make it so he doesn't have to be the POY, but he left for only 2 games, so.... yeah he's my #1.
2. Petit: I am heading with Petit MVP of the szn, he was best player on O for season imo, 29.2 ppg is crazy, even if is not all that good in PO. He outplayed the second OPOY (to be fair, so did Hagan, whats up w this guys O). Petit somehow loses to Baylor though (that gives me questions about his defense if underrated or not).
3. Baylor: Turnaround in rookie season alone, terrible last seed team to finals, so don't blame for "just 2.6 offense and 1.6 defense turnaround". His defense is questionable, but his offense alone (what I'm going by) will put him at 3.
4. Schayes: Might have put him higher this season due to better O imo, but am huge believer in Baylor this season. Anchored incredible O in RS and PO, bad D tho keeps him at same spot. Also almost beat superteam celtics.
5. Cliff hagan: just an incredible offensive player statistically, and also incredible PO performer too. Most ppg in playoffs series even with petit around. Probably top three there
OPOY
1. Petit
2. Baylor
3. Schayes
DPOY
1. Russell
2. Dukes
3. Gola