RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 2)

[MikRay]

lol
These results show how little the readers know about ball

I agree. Kareem should have way more votes.

Wilt is far and away the GOAT

[Jamaaliver]

Shaq was clearly the best player on the Lakers from 1999 to at least 2002, so how does Kobe have a claim for best player in the league in any of those years?

Also, it's kind of wild to say Kobe was the best player in the game during the time his teammate won 3 straight FMVPs to his 0. I believe that's what they call revisionist history, Kobe's peak was the late-00s, not the early-00s.

You had to be there.

Read on Twitter

[SlimShady83]

Apart from Jordan and Lebron, which goat are you all taking for a 7 game series to win the championship??

[DOT]

Shaq was clearly the best player on the Lakers from 1999 to at least 2002, so how does Kobe have a claim for best player in the league in any of those years?

Also, it's kind of wild to say Kobe was the best player in the game during the time his teammate won 3 straight FMVPs to his 0. I believe that's what they call revisionist history, Kobe's peak was the late-00s, not the early-00s.

You had to be there.

Read on Twitter

You can't even remember the Finals from 6 years ago right, no way you remember the Finals from 25 years ago right

[DOT]

These dudes will really argue to your face that the guy who averaged 25/8/6 with 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks on 42% from the field was even close to winning FMVP over the dude who averaged 33/16/5 with 3.4 blocks on 57% from the field

Talk about revisionist history, I'm sure they're gonna say something like Shaq only averaged that much because Kobe shooting so poorly gave him offensive rebounds or something and act like that would be a real argument in Kobe's favor

[Jamaaliver]

These dudes will really argue to your face that the guy who averaged 25/8/6 with 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks on 42% from the field was even close to winning FMVP over the dude who averaged 33/16/5 with 3.4 blocks on 57% from the field

Talk about revisionist history, I'm sure they're gonna say something like Shaq only averaged that much because Kobe shooting so poorly gave him offensive rebounds or something and act like that would be a real argument in Kobe's favor

Shaq has gone on record as not being the best player on the title winning Lakers Teams...

Read on Twitter

[DOT]

These dudes will really argue to your face that the guy who averaged 25/8/6 with 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks on 42% from the field was even close to winning FMVP over the dude who averaged 33/16/5 with 3.4 blocks on 57% from the field

Talk about revisionist history, I'm sure they're gonna say something like Shaq only averaged that much because Kobe shooting so poorly gave him offensive rebounds or something and act like that would be a real argument in Kobe's favor

Shaq has gone on record as not being the best player on the title winning Lakers Teams...

Read on Twitter

lol show me Shaq saying that in 2002. You talk about revisionist history, this is what revisionist history is. Shaq is rewriting history because Kobe is dead and he's full of regret with the way he handled their relationship

Matter of fact, show me anyone in 2000 saying Kobe should have been the FMVP. Not people 20 years later, show me people in 2000 who said the Kobe Bryant who averaged 16 ppg on 37% from the field should have been the FMVP over Shaq who averaged 38 ppg on 61% from the field

Should be rather easy to do, seeing as it was the prevailing narrative at the time.

[DOT]

2002 is the only year you can even kind of argue that Kobe had a case for FMVP, and even then almost everybody would give it to Shaq over him. Anyone talking about Kobe should have won FMVP in 2000 is just not being serious.

[ScrantonBulls]

Watch on YouTube

We're seriously using this guy's word to make a claim at the GOAT title? Shaq is universally regarded as a moron when it comes to basketball analysis. Let's do better here and maybe use our own brains to make a point, not just the opinion of a moron.

[DOT]

You know who else thinks Kobe doesn't have a GOAT argument?

This guy:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071037

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071274

What changed in the last year and a half?

[Jamaaliver]

So, here's the thing.

You're trying to state as fact what was debated even in real time.

Shaq was an absolutely unstoppable offensive force by this point.

But he was also frequently out of shape, injury prone and distracted trying to be an entertainer in Hollywood.

There's a reason that Lakers leadership essentially chose Kobe Bryant at 24/25 over Phil Jackson or Shaq.

[DOT]

There's a reason that Lakers leadership essentially chose Kobe Bryant at 24/25 over Phil Jackson or Shaq.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071037

But in 2004, LA chose Kobe over Phil Jackson...and the Lakers immediately became mediocre. That says a lot.

So like, you're clearly just a troll. I get it, this is the thread for trolling, but still. I don't feel like keeping up the back-and-forth with a troll right now, so have fun.

[Jamaaliver]

You know who else thinks Kobe doesn't have a GOAT argument?

This guy:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071037
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071274

What changed in the last year and a half?

1. That's an absolutely wonderful find.

2. My argument has been the same...

I feel like you guys may be focused too much on a MJ vs Lebron debate.

IMHO, Lebron is closer to the Kobe/Magic/Steph Tier than the MJ/Kareem level of greatness.

ALL great players, though.

Feb 2025 - In this thread

In my observation, Tom Brady and Michael Jordan are the Greatest Players of All Time.

And I can honestly say...I rooted against both of them for their entire careers.

Feb 2025 -- In this thread

[DOT]

this dude is quoting himself saying Kobe is the tier below GOAT and saying it's consistent with his current argument that Kobe should be in the conversation for GOAT

Like I said, just a clear case of being a troll.

[bledredwine]

Then he has no place in the GOAT discussion. That is what this topic is about, if you can remember.

Kobe has as much a place in GOAT discussions as Lebron and Magic.

Best players of their respective eras.

Exactly.

[Jamaaliver]

:lol: this dude is quoting himself saying Kobe is the tier below GOAT and saying it's consistent with his current argument that Kobe should be in the conversation for GOAT...

That's...not what I said.

Surprisingly not in the GOAT conversations nearly enough on this board.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

February 2025 -- In this thread


And I am surprised more Kobe fans aren't here pushing for their guy.

[ScrantonBulls]

:lol: this dude is quoting himself saying Kobe is the tier below GOAT and saying it's consistent with his current argument that Kobe should be in the conversation for GOAT

Like I said, just a clear case of being a troll.

You're right. I expect better out of a moderator... Just blatant trolling.

[michaelm]

Then he has no place in the GOAT discussion. That is what this topic is about, if you can remember.

Kobe has as much a place in GOAT discussions as Lebron and Magic.

Best players of their respective eras.

If Kobe has no argument over MJ, there is no further discussion. Logically if one player is inferior to another in all aspects, he cannot ever be the GOAT

It's quite simple logic, I'm not sure what part you're not grasping.

If he has a case over LeBron, which Iis drawing a rather long now of course, then the logic changes.

[michaelm]

There's a reason that Lakers leadership essentially chose Kobe Bryant at 24/25 over Phil Jackson or Shaq.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071037

But in 2004, LA chose Kobe over Phil Jackson...and the Lakers immediately became mediocre. That says a lot.

So like, you're clearly just a troll. I get it, this is the thread for trolling, but still. I don't feel like keeping up the back-and-forth with a troll right now, so have fun.

Oddly only people who disagree with you seem to qualify as trolls.

[The High Cyde]

There's a reason that Lakers leadership essentially chose Kobe Bryant at 24/25 over Phil Jackson or Shaq.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071037

But in 2004, LA chose Kobe over Phil Jackson...and the Lakers immediately became mediocre. That says a lot.

So like, you're clearly just a troll. I get it, this is the thread for trolling, but still. I don't feel like keeping up the back-and-forth with a troll right now, so have fun.

Oddly only people who disagree with you seem to qualify as trolls.

Bringing up Kobe as a GOAT is trolling. Stop with the nonsense