Lamelo Ball by the numbers

[Iwasawitness]

Dyslexic me read the title as Lamelo Numbers by the balls

i thought it was lamelo has numerous balls

Lmao I actually read it the same way

[SeattleJazzFan]

he needs to stop shooting so much. period. when you are that inefficient, you need to decrease your attempts and be more selective with your shooting. especially when you are as skilled passing the ball as lamelo. he has an opportunity to lift teammates and make people better, but instead he'd rather jack up a bunch of garbage all the time.

[cupcakesnake]

Lamelo Ball has crazy rare playmaking ability. Super creative, super risky. He's one of the only players who regularly does things that I've never seen before. He's also a decent shooter- or would be- with better shot selection.

He is tough to evaluate in his context. It's a team is injured, and full of inefficient score-first types who don't play defense. With someone like Lamelo, you like him having offensive freedom, but not to this extent where he's often tasked with just doing whatever to produce a shot.

I get the temptation to write Lamelo off as a talented player who isn't really serious enough to be a real competitor or difference maker. I'd like to see him at least once in a more normal basketball environment before I feel like that evaluation has weight. What would he look like if you put him on Houston, or Minnesota. Teams with defense that could really use an aggressive playmaker? I hope we'll get to know.

Everyone is currently singing Cade Cunningham's praises and crapping on Lamelo, but swap those two and I'm not sure much changes for either of their teams (Cade is a way better defender, Lamelo is the superior playmaker).

This reads as insane to me.

Cade came into the league a year after, to a worse situation, is far more durable, and is already winning more with a group that no one in the world would consider good. Oh, and he's a straight up better player. Like they aren't even on the same tier.

Far more durable is a stretch. This is the first season we aren't worried about Cade's health. He had injury problems in each of his first 3 seasons. I agree Melo is worse here. I'd agree Melo's health has been worse lately and is more of a legit concern at this point.

Detroit actually is a functional roster this year though. Certainly not supremely talented, but very functional. Good health this year, especially amongst the vets. Tons of shooters to space for Cade drives, a nice lob threat to play pick & roll with, no more 2-center lineups with zero spacing. Really good athletes running in transition. Charlotte is simply an injured mess.

Functionally, there's not a huge difference on offense to me. Both players get massive usage. Neither are efficient with their shooting possessions (55% vs 54% ts), both are walking turnover problems (but Cade is worse). Cade is stronger on drives with a nicer midrange pull game. Melo is more dangerous from 3, though you'd like to see him improve the selection. Neither of them are efficient interior scorers, but Cade is nicer in the short midrange.

I like Cade's defense way more, so I'd pick Cade. But you're going off vibes if you think Cade is on some other level offensively. He's just in a better situation for himself and healthier. I think Lamelo has a higher ceiling than Cade offensively, but I mostly doubt he reaches that ceiling and like Cade's floor way way more.

[infinite11285]

Analogous LaMelo topics merged.

[Ambrose]

Lamelo Ball has crazy rare playmaking ability. Super creative, super risky. He's one of the only players who regularly does things that I've never seen before. He's also a decent shooter- or would be- with better shot selection.

He is tough to evaluate in his context. It's a team is injured, and full of inefficient score-first types who don't play defense. With someone like Lamelo, you like him having offensive freedom, but not to this extent where he's often tasked with just doing whatever to produce a shot.

I get the temptation to write Lamelo off as a talented player who isn't really serious enough to be a real competitor or difference maker. I'd like to see him at least once in a more normal basketball environment before I feel like that evaluation has weight. What would he look like if you put him on Houston, or Minnesota. Teams with defense that could really use an aggressive playmaker? I hope we'll get to know.

Everyone is currently singing Cade Cunningham's praises and crapping on Lamelo, but swap those two and I'm not sure much changes for either of their teams (Cade is a way better defender, Lamelo is the superior playmaker).

This reads as insane to me.

Cade came into the league a year after, to a worse situation, is far more durable, and is already winning more with a group that no one in the world would consider good. Oh, and he's a straight up better player. Like they aren't even on the same tier.

Far more durable is a stretch. This is the first season we aren't worried about Cade's health. He had injury problems in each of his first 3 seasons. I agree Melo is worse here. I'd agree Melo's health has been worse lately and is more of a legit concern at this point.

Detroit actually is a functional roster this year though. Certainly not supremely talented, but very functional. Good health this year, especially amongst the vets. Tons of shooters to space for Cade drives, a nice lob threat to play pick & roll with, no more 2-center lineups with zero spacing. Really good athletes running in transition. Charlotte is simply an injured mess.

Functionally, there's not a huge difference on offense to me. Both players get massive usage. Neither are efficient with their shooting possessions (55% vs 54% ts), both are walking turnover problems (but Cade is worse). Cade is stronger on drives with a nicer midrange pull game. Melo is more dangerous from 3, though you'd like to see him improve the selection. Neither of them are efficient interior scorers, but Cade is nicer in the short midrange.

I like Cade's defense way more, so I'd pick Cade. But you're going off vibes if you think Cade is on some other level offensively. He's just in a better situation for himself and healthier. I think Lamelo has a higher ceiling than Cade offensively, but I mostly doubt he reaches that ceiling and like Cade's floor way way more.

Cade is about to play 60 games for the 3rd time in 4 years. Lamelo will likely miss that for the 4th time in 5 years. Make of that what you will.

I don't know if I could find a single spot that picked Detroit to be better than Charlotte this year, and there isn't a massive talent difference. Certainly no one would've taken Detroit's roster over Charlotte's coming into the year and now Detroit has more than double the wins Charlotte has. That's largely because of Cade. Now obviously injuries and as you said fit play into that, but the point is still clear.

Let's grant you the premise there's not a huge difference between the two on offense. The gap in defense and leadership are massive, and durability isn't close either. So even under the premise that they're close on offense, Cade still looks considerably better. LaMelo may have more talent, but he's not on the same tier as Cade as an actual player right now.

[tsherkin]

he needs to stop shooting so much. period. when you are that inefficient, you need to decrease your attempts and be more selective with your shooting. especially when you are as skilled passing the ball as lamelo. he has an opportunity to lift teammates and make people better, but instead he'd rather jack up a bunch of garbage all the time.

To whom should he pass it who will score more efficiently?

[tamaraw08]

he needs to stop shooting so much. period. when you are that inefficient, you need to decrease your attempts and be more selective with your shooting. especially when you are as skilled passing the ball as lamelo. he has an opportunity to lift teammates and make people better, but instead he'd rather jack up a bunch of garbage all the time.

To whom should he pass it who will score more efficiently?

Seth Curry with a TS% of 61%
Josh Green 57TS%
Diabate 60TS%
Mark Williams 62TS%
For me, it's not just shooting and lack of passing but that crazy 3pt Attempt rate of almost 53% with a low 33.3% and a low 23.7FT rate.
Trae Young has lower 3PT rate of 49% but a higher FTR OF 40%
Garland has a lower 3PT rate of under 45%

[GiggitySmalls]

As a Hornets fan, if we land flagg i don't want Melo anywhere near him. Trade him. Trade miles aswell. Move on from the loser anchors. Melo is empty calories stats, and lacks a significant amount of Grey matter between the ears.

Sent from my SM-S936U using RealGM mobile app

[tsherkin]

Seth Curry with a TS% of 61%
Josh Green 57TS%
Diabate 60TS%
Mark Williams 62TS%

Seth Curry is good for exactly one thing: shooting 3s. He isn't even playing 15 mpg. Josh Green is below league average efficiency as well and can catch and shoot, sure, but such opportunities exist only so much. DIabate has no range, so he can only be spoon-fed around the rim, and those opportunities can only come up so frequently. Same same Mark Williams.

What LaMelo needs is another competent creator so he can offload some of that shooting volume. As it stands right now, there isn't a reason for him to change his approach in that regard.

For me, it's not just shooting and lack of passing but that crazy 3pt Attempt rate of almost 53% with a low 33.3% and a low 23.7FT rate.
Trae Young has lower 3PT rate of 49% but a higher FTR OF 40%
Garland has a lower 3PT rate of under 45%

Sure, you can argue he bombs 3s a little much, especially since he's having a down year from 3. That does make sense.

[EmpireFalls]

he needs to stop shooting so much. period. when you are that inefficient, you need to decrease your attempts and be more selective with your shooting. especially when you are as skilled passing the ball as lamelo. he has an opportunity to lift teammates and make people better, but instead he'd rather jack up a bunch of garbage all the time.

To whom should he pass it who will score more efficiently?

Seth Curry with a TS% of 61%
Josh Green 57TS%
Diabate 60TS%
Mark Williams 62TS%
For me, it's not just shooting and lack of passing but that crazy 3pt Attempt rate of almost 53% with a low 33.3% and a low 23.7FT rate.
Trae Young has lower 3PT rate of 49% but a higher FTR OF 40%
Garland has a lower 3PT rate of under 45%

This is cracking me up. Have you ever watched a single Hornets game? The first two are purely spot up shooters who can basically score only one way - spot up 3s created by someone else. Josh Green especially is a hilarious player who can basically only hit corner 3s. Who’s creating those shots? Thats right, LaMelo.

Diabate and Mark are bigs who have no shooting range or post game whatsoever and basically only score off rolls or rebounds. Again, who creates their shots? LaMelo.

Btw, something that your purely statistical analysis discounts is that LaMelo often gets to the rim and misses for Mark to clean it up. So it goes down as a missed shot but the action is created by LaMelo, and effectively functions as an assist. It’s something that you’d have to watch a game to realize… but you’ve proven beyond any doubt that you don’t have any interest in that.

[tamaraw08]

To whom should he pass it who will score more efficiently?

Seth Curry with a TS% of 61%
Josh Green 57TS%
Diabate 60TS%
Mark Williams 62TS%
For me, it's not just shooting and lack of passing but that crazy 3pt Attempt rate of almost 53% with a low 33.3% and a low 23.7FT rate.
Trae Young has lower 3PT rate of 49% but a higher FTR OF 40%
Garland has a lower 3PT rate of under 45%

This is cracking me up. Have you ever watched a single Hornets game? The first two are purely spot up shooters who can basically score only one way - spot up 3s created by someone else. Josh Green especially is a hilarious player who can basically only hit corner 3s. Who’s creating those shots? Thats right, LaMelo.

Diabate and Mark are bigs who have no shooting range or post game whatsoever and basically only score off rolls or rebounds. Again, who creates their shots? LaMelo.

Btw, something that your purely statistical analysis discounts is that LaMelo often gets to the rim and misses for Mark to clean it up. So it goes down as a missed shot but the action is created by LaMelo, and effectively functions as an assist. It’s something that you’d have to watch a game to realize… but you’ve proven beyond any doubt that you don’t have any interest in that.

Someone on this thread mentioned and compared Lamelo to Cade Cunningham.
Cade recognized that he is a bad shooter and therefore used his head to create MORE scoring opportunities for his LEGIT SHOOTERS.
Beasley is lighting it up this season but let me ask you this, who is shooting better from 3pt area, him or Seth Curry?
DING DING DING!!!! Curry at 45.7%
PER 100 possessions for 3pt attempts,
Cade only shoots 8.7 as compared to Lamelo's 17.7 at a low 33.3%
Beasley is taking 16.5 attempts as compared to Curry at only 9 attempts.
Josh Green who is averaging 40% is only taking 6.2 attempts!!!
So Lamelo's 2 best 3pt shooters are only combining 15.2 3pt shots while the freaking DESIGNATED POINT GUARD SHAMELESSLY takes 17.7 at a low 33.3 accuracy
So do I need to explained to you that Charlotte is ranked 29th in ORTG while Detroit improved from 27th to 14th best this year?
Just in case you missed it, Pistons didn't have shooters Beasley and THJ last season.

[EmpireFalls]

Dude just looking at bballref thinking he knows everything

[tsherkin]

Someone on this thread mentioned and compared Lamelo to Cade Cunningham.
Cade recognized that he is a bad shooter

What?

No. Cade isn't a bad shooter; shooting is his STRENGTH. He isn't an efficient scorer, but that's a separate situation.

Beasley is lighting it up this season but let me ask you this, who is shooting better from 3pt area, him or Seth Curry?
DING DING DING!!!! Curry at 45.7%
PER 100 possessions for 3pt attempts,
Cade only shoots 8.7 as compared to Lamelo's 17.7 at a low 33.3%
Beasley is taking 16.5 attempts as compared to Curry at only 9 attempts.
Josh Green who is averaging 40% is only taking 6.2 attempts!!!
So Lamelo's 2 best 3pt shooters are only combining 15.2 3pt shots while the freaking DESIGNATED POINT GUARD SHAMELESSLY takes 17.7 at a low 33.3 accuracy

So, Ball is taking 11.6 3PAg not 17.7.

And yeah, most of those guys are taking spot-up shots. Those need to be set up by other action. They don't just appear out of no where, raining out of the sky like manna from heaven.

[tamaraw08]

Someone on this thread mentioned and compared Lamelo to Cade Cunningham.
Cade recognized that he is a bad shooter

What?

No. Cade isn't a bad shooter; shooting is his STRENGTH. He isn't an efficient scorer, but that's a separate situation.

Beasley is lighting it up this season but let me ask you this, who is shooting better from 3pt area, him or Seth Curry?
DING DING DING!!!! Curry at 45.7%
PER 100 possessions for 3pt attempts,
Cade only shoots 8.7 as compared to Lamelo's 17.7 at a low 33.3%
Beasley is taking 16.5 attempts as compared to Curry at only 9 attempts.
Josh Green who is averaging 40% is only taking 6.2 attempts!!!
So Lamelo's 2 best 3pt shooters are only combining 15.2 3pt shots while the freaking DESIGNATED POINT GUARD SHAMELESSLY takes 17.7 at a low 33.3 accuracy

So, Ball is taking 11.6 3PAg not 17.7.

And yeah, most of those guys are taking spot-up shots. Those need to be set up by other action. They don't just appear out of no where, raining out of the sky like manna from heaven.

Ball is taking 11.6 3pt attempts per game but I based my numbers on per 100 possessions.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/ballla01.html#per_poss
If Lamelo is shooting 38-40% from 3 and he has NO great shooters on the team, then fire away for I care but the kid is only hitting 33.3% And you know what's crazy? Ball is shooting MORE 3' than ATG shooter Steph Curry.

[tsherkin]

Ball is taking 11.6 3pt attempts per game but I based my numbers on per 100 possessions.

Why?


Anyway, yes. We know he's bombing too much from 3, but like I said, you can't just magically replace those shots with better shots for other players. There's some room for improvement, but I think you're not appreciating that being surrounded by guys who don't score well for themselves still means that Ball needs to set up those shots himself. And that's high-energy stuff in volume over a game.

[tamaraw08]

Ball is taking 11.6 3pt attempts per game but I based my numbers on per 100 possessions.

Why?


Anyway, yes. We know he's bombing too much from 3, but like I said, you can't just magically replace those shots with better shots for other players. There's some room for improvement, but I think you're not appreciating that being surrounded by guys who don't score well for themselves still means that Ball needs to set up those shots himself. And that's high-energy stuff in volume over a game.

For me it's a mindset of these players to decide what is best for the team's offense.
The freaking 40 year old Lebron dealing with foot and ankle issues, is hitting his 2nd highest 3pt% of his 22 year career and yet is not launching 11 3's per game.
Instead of preserving his legs and just simply chuck from beyond 24 feet, he ask for 1-2 picks from teammates, hunts for mismatches then spot open teammates for a higher % shots, hence his team is 10th best in ORTG AND him 6th in assists in the league.
And it's not just James, but also older guys like CP3, James Harden and younger players like Trae Young, Haliburton, Cade, Brunson etc.
These guys don't simply just use their quick first step and blow by their defenders, it's attitude and mental approach to decide what is best for the team.
And yes, it's possible that right now, they are tanking hard so no one including their coach cares but Lamelo has been doing this crap since Oct. For November alone with both Grant and Miller healthy, Ball shot more than 13 3pt attempts/game.

[tsherkin]

For me it's a mindset of these players to decide what is best for the team's offense.
The freaking 40 year old Lebron dealing with foot and ankle issues, is hitting his 2nd highest 3pt% of his 22 year career and yet is not launching 11 3's per game.

Lebron is also like 6'9, 270. He can dominate from the post. And he's taking 4 fewer shots per game than Ball.

And it's not just James, but also older guys like CP3, James Harden and younger players like Trae Young,

I mean, not a quality place to start. Trae has a very high 3PAr and isn't a particularly efficient scorer himself, despite shooting in volume.

And yes, it's possible that right now, they are tanking hard so no one including their coach cares but Lamelo has been doing this crap since Oct. For November alone with both Grant and Miller healthy, Ball shot more than 13 3pt attempts/game.

Yeah, he has been shooting a lot of 3s this year. And they weren't going to win many games regardless. The team isn't good. That wasn't any different in October compared to now. Miller isn't good. He's been just as bad about bombing double-digit 3PA/g before going down for the season. Grant was okay, for sure, but he's roasted now.

[ChiTownHero1992]

As a Hornets fan, if we land flagg i don't want Melo anywhere near him. Trade him. Trade miles aswell. Move on from the loser anchors. Melo is empty calories stats, and lacks a significant amount of Grey matter between the ears.

Sent from my SM-S936U using RealGM mobile app

Hornets might be better off doing that period trade Ball for any assets, trade Miles for any assets, high draft pick this year with Miller returning, those would be your two pillars, try to change the dynamic of the franchise from there.

[Pacernation]

When he streamed a video smoking weed before a playin game and then stunk it up, that told me all I need to know about the guy. Sure he's talented, but he doesn't take this seriously and to be quiet honest, I think he doesn't have the intelligence to see what's wrong with his game. No defense, injury prone, lazy, low IQ chucker that want's to be a social media darling instead of a winning basketballplayer. Hornets should trade him for whatever return they get asap and build around this years pick and miller. You won't go anywhere with this kind of "point guard" play.

[JustBuzzin]

When he streamed a video smoking weed before a playin game and then stunk it up, that told me all I need to know about the guy. Sure he's talented, but he doesn't take this seriously and to be quiet honest, I think he doesn't have the intelligence to see what's wrong with his game. No defense, injury prone, lazy, low IQ chucker that want's to be a social media darling instead of a winning basketballplayer. Hornets should trade him for whatever return they get asap and build around this years pick and miller. You won't go anywhere with this kind of "point guard" play.

Melo>Hali


I can see the jealousy in your voice. You mad he's nicknamed Flashy Hali. He does everything Hali does but he's more entertaining. You mad he's a fan favorite over your guy Hali. It's fine just wait until we get Flagg. Let's see what he does with actual good talent around him.

What Melo does off the court doesn't matter. He's our best player and it ain't even a debate. Look at our roster and look at the actual decent players we have all our with injuries. Melo can't carry bums to the playoffs neither can Hali. He needs help and until we get talent around him he's gonna have to continue to play the way he does.