tsherkin wrote:scrabbarista wrote:cupcakesnake wrote:I have Duncan at #4 all-time and I think you can reasonably argue him higher than that.
Very iron-clad resume of accomplishment with tons of statistical evidence of massive impact that stacks up against anyone.
He's not the greatest offensive player ever, but he was pretty incredible with his resilient post-scoring game + all the intangibles he brought as a screener, cutter, and passer. Then on defense, he's in the GOAT discussion there. He's sort of the inverse of Kareem in this way.
Took the words right out of my mouth!
I think it's pretty hard to author a respectful argument for Duncan that high.
Up there, you're dealing with the absolute beasts of yesteryear, so unless you just piss on their accomplishments and write them off for their era, there's a bit of a cap. Kareem, Russell. Wilt's set of unmatchable achievements. Jordan. Then you still have to go through Lebron, which isn't a clear-cut thing either. And that doesn't even really address Mikan. He does get crapped on and forgotten a lot for it being so early on in the NBA, but if you do consider cross-era comparison, then you have to account for him.
I don't think it's disrespectful to have Bill Russell at #5 (I think he's a guy you can argue all the way up to #1). I have Wilt at #7, but I flip flop with him at 6. I have Mikan at #14, but acknowledge that it's pretty difficult to compare him in any argument where you want to incorporate some level of "relative to era" thinking.
I think Duncan's case against any of these guys (including Jordan and Kareem) isn't that complicated. If Duncan is your GOAT, you probably think he's the best defender ever (or at least right there with Hakeem and Russell). You probably correlate San Antonio's massive success to Duncan's basketball abilities and the intangibles he brings as a leader. The portability he brought by being able to put perimeter playmakers around and run the offense through them, despite Duncan's post-up hub work being the main offense of 2 championships. I think you have to really like the resiliency of his scoring game, and be awed by the consistency over his 19-year career (look at his per 100 numbers at age 36 and age 24... it's just ridiculous). In terms of longevity titans, his defense ages way better than Kareem's. If he's possibly a top 5-ish peak guy, and a top 3 longevity guy...we're getting into pretty clear GOAT candidacy there, no? Punish MJ for the retirmentes, add a pinch of Lebron hater-ade and we can really get cooking!
I don't have Duncan as my GOAT, so I'm not here authoring a long "respectful" argument, but I don't think it's hard to picture. We've both seen it done, no?
I think if you're a little lower on Duncan, you think he's a top-10 all-time defender rather than a GOAT candidate. You probably don't care about his offense much, and might be more inclined to giving Manu Ginobili the lion's share of credit in a handful of those playoff runs. Maybe someone is low on Duncan's peak (though the PC board fairly recently voted 2003 Duncan as the 6th best peak ever).
