Official 2024-2025 Magic General Season Thread I

[pepe1991]

What are you even talking about? I pointed out that the team has played better post-deadline. You challenged me to look at strength of schedule. I used the spread to look at strength of schedule and it highlights that we’ve over performed our strength of schedule. Check mate. Put your fingers in your ears if you want, or be the smart guy you are and adjust your argument to deal with the evidence.

They played better late in the season because the schedule was very easy post all-star break.

That's it. There's no other explanation.

Suggesting they played "better" than we think because of how they performed against the point spreads is just more of your goofy optimism schtick. You're so ready to try and find anything good to make this "BEST YOUNG CORE EVER" thing true that you cite stuff that just means nothing.

The best young core agreement is already substantiated by the team’s win rate last season relative to other young cores.

OKC 2024-25 is better by what, 20 wins than last year's Magic team?

Pistons 44 wins with Cade and bunch of C level role players this year proves winning on east isn't hard. It is so easy that Pacers won 50 with limited roster that can run a lot.

[eyriq]

They played better late in the season because the schedule was very easy post all-star break.

That's it. There's no other explanation.

Suggesting they played "better" than we think because of how they performed against the point spreads is just more of your goofy optimism schtick. You're so ready to try and find anything good to make this "BEST YOUNG CORE EVER" thing true that you cite stuff that just means nothing.

The best young core agreement is already substantiated by the team’s win rate last season relative to other young cores.

OKC 2024-25 is better by what, 20 wins than last year's Magic team?

Pistons 44 wins with Cade and bunch of C level role players this year proves winning on east isn't hard. It is so easy that Pacers won 50 with limited roster that can run a lot.

Not young cores.

[VFX]

I can’t wait for Orlando to unveil the “best young core” banner next season after OKC wins a championship

Considering the Thunder are the second youngest team by average roster age and sixth youngest team by average minutes played.

Magic are 8th in both categories and will lose in the first round after beating a bunch of tanking teams in the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes.

Keep the optimism high!

[eyriq]

I can’t wait for Orlando to unveil the “best young core” banner next season after OKC wins a championship

Considering the Thunder are the second youngest team by average roster age and sixth youngest team by average minutes played.

Magic are 8th in both categories and will lose in the first round after beating a bunch of tanking teams in the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes.

Keep the optimism high!

OKC's top three in minutes:

SGA (26) 2598 mins
JDub (23) 2237 mins
Dort (25) 2073 mins

Not a young core. Compare OKC to Orlando in 2027 postseason. You know, this really advanced concept called a "timeline".

[pepe1991]

I can’t wait for Orlando to unveil the “best young core” banner next season after OKC wins a championship

Considering the Thunder are the second youngest team by average roster age and sixth youngest team by average minutes played.

Magic are 8th in both categories and will lose in the first round after beating a bunch of tanking teams in the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes.

Keep the optimism high!

OKC's top three in minutes:

SGA (26) 2598 mins
JDub (23) 2237 mins
Dort (25) 2073 mins

Not a young core. Compare OKC to Orlando in 2027 postseason. You know, this really advanced concept called a "timeline".

So they didn't use Homgren injury as excuse? Hmm intresting.

[eyriq]

I can’t wait for Orlando to unveil the “best young core” banner next season after OKC wins a championship

Considering the Thunder are the second youngest team by average roster age and sixth youngest team by average minutes played.

Magic are 8th in both categories and will lose in the first round after beating a bunch of tanking teams in the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes.

Keep the optimism high!

OKC's top three in minutes:

SGA (26) 2598 mins
JDub (23) 2237 mins
Dort (25) 2073 mins

Not a young core. Compare OKC to Orlando in 2027 postseason. You know, this really advanced concept called a "timeline".

So they didn't use Homgren injury as excuse? Hmm intresting.

What SGA and Mark Daigneault have done is incredible. You'd think they'd be candidates for MVP and Coach of the Year.

[Knightro]

The qualifiers that have been put on what constitutes a “young core” are so narrow that frankly it’s an irrelevant talking point.

When you extend any of qualifiers just slightly, whether that’s number of players, where the players rank in minutes per game on the team, whatever - you realize almost immediately how goofy the argument actually is.

The number of NBA teams who have made three top 8 picks across just two drafts is remarkably low btw.

That’s just not something that happens often at all.

[eyriq]

The qualifiers that have been put on what constitutes a “young core” are so narrow that frankly it’s an irrelevant talking point.

When you extend any of qualifiers just slightly, whether that’s number of players, where the players rank in minutes per game on the team, whatever - you realize almost immediately how goofy the argument actually is.

The number of NBA teams who have made three top 8 picks across just two drafts is remarkably low btw.

That’s just not something that happens often at all.

It's goofy to not understand why qualifiers are required

[pepe1991]

The qualifiers that have been put on what constitutes a “young core” are so narrow that frankly it’s an irrelevant talking point.

When you extend any of qualifiers just slightly, whether that’s number of players, where the players rank in minutes per game on the team, whatever - you realize almost immediately how goofy the argument actually is.

The number of NBA teams who have made three top 8 picks across just two drafts is remarkably low btw.

That’s just not something that happens often at all.

It's goofy to not understand why qualifiers are required

Why is 23 young but 24 isn't?
Across the sports, young players stop being viewed as "young " by 21.

Lamine Yamal is top 3 winger in football. Guy is 17.

Lebron was top 10 player at 19.

Average lenght of nba career is 4,5 years, average draft age is 21. So most nba players go from "young" to "former".

[eyriq]

The qualifiers that have been put on what constitutes a “young core” are so narrow that frankly it’s an irrelevant talking point.

When you extend any of qualifiers just slightly, whether that’s number of players, where the players rank in minutes per game on the team, whatever - you realize almost immediately how goofy the argument actually is.

The number of NBA teams who have made three top 8 picks across just two drafts is remarkably low btw.

That’s just not something that happens often at all.

It's goofy to not understand why qualifiers are required

Why is 23 young but 24 isn't?
Across the sports, young players stop being viewed as "young " by 21.

Lamine Yamal is top 3 winger in football. Guy is 17.

Lebron was top 10 player at 19.

Average lenght of nba career is 4,5 years, average draft age is 21. So most nba players go from "young" to "former".

Orlando's top three players in minutes last season were 22 and younger. To appreciate how many wins can be expected of a team with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger you look for other teams with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger see what those teams did in wins and use that as a baseline. Orlando's 47 wins are in the 93rd percentile, evidence that this is one of the best young cores of all time.

[VFX]

The qualifiers that have been put on what constitutes a “young core” are so narrow that frankly it’s an irrelevant talking point.

When you extend any of qualifiers just slightly, whether that’s number of players, where the players rank in minutes per game on the team, whatever - you realize almost immediately how goofy the argument actually is.

The number of NBA teams who have made three top 8 picks across just two drafts is remarkably low btw.

That’s just not something that happens often at all.

It's goofy to not understand why qualifiers are required

You are the only person pushing this as a thing.

This is “eryiq’s qualifiers” for a specific niche metric to be excited about.

It means nothing.

[Knightro]

It's goofy to not understand why qualifiers are required

Why is 23 young but 24 isn't?
Across the sports, young players stop being viewed as "young " by 21.

Lamine Yamal is top 3 winger in football. Guy is 17.

Lebron was top 10 player at 19.

Average lenght of nba career is 4,5 years, average draft age is 21. So most nba players go from "young" to "former".

Orlando's top three players in minutes last season were 22 and younger. To appreciate how many wins can be expected of a team with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger you look for other teams with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger see what those teams did in wins and use that as a baseline. Orlando's 47 wins are in the 93rd percentile, evidence that this is one of the best young cores of all time.

How many NBA teams in history have made three top 8 picks across two drafts?

[eyriq]

The qualifiers that have been put on what constitutes a “young core” are so narrow that frankly it’s an irrelevant talking point.

When you extend any of qualifiers just slightly, whether that’s number of players, where the players rank in minutes per game on the team, whatever - you realize almost immediately how goofy the argument actually is.

The number of NBA teams who have made three top 8 picks across just two drafts is remarkably low btw.

That’s just not something that happens often at all.

It's goofy to not understand why qualifiers are required

You are the only person pushing this as a thing.

This is “eryiq’s qualifiers” for a specific niche metric to be excited about.

It means nothing.

I think you mean "basic data analysis"

[VFX]

It’s like saying the Washington Wizards have the best youngest core because they claim it is:

Bub Carrington (19)
Alex Sarr (19)
Bilal Coulibaly (20)

You just gotta wait 3 seasons…

And then the Magic won’t have “the best young core” anymore in a specific timeframe that Eyriq made up.

Very cool. Cool metric.

[eyriq]

Why is 23 young but 24 isn't?
Across the sports, young players stop being viewed as "young " by 21.

Lamine Yamal is top 3 winger in football. Guy is 17.

Lebron was top 10 player at 19.

Average lenght of nba career is 4,5 years, average draft age is 21. So most nba players go from "young" to "former".

Orlando's top three players in minutes last season were 22 and younger. To appreciate how many wins can be expected of a team with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger you look for other teams with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger see what those teams did in wins and use that as a baseline. Orlando's 47 wins are in the 93rd percentile, evidence that this is one of the best young cores of all time.

How many NBA teams in history have made three top 8 picks across two drafts?

You've asked this before, so you must have some argument in mind for this pattern. There have been 15 teams with 3 picks in the top 8 in consecutive years.

| Tm | StartYear | EndYear | TotalTop8 | Players |
|-----|-----------|---------|-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| NYK | 1965 | 1966 | 3 | Bill Bradley (Pk 2); Dave Stallworth (Pk 5); Cazzie Russell (Pk 1) |
| SFW | 1965 | 1966 | 3 | Fred Hetzel (Pk 1); Rick Barry (Pk 4); Clyde Lee (Pk 3) |
| DET | 1966 | 1967 | 3 | Dave Bing (Pk 2); Jimmy Walker (Pk 1); Sonny Dove (Pk 4) |
| DET | 1967 | 1968 | 3 | Jimmy Walker (Pk 1); Sonny Dove (Pk 4); Otto Moore (Pk 6) |
| ATL | 1974 | 1975 | 3 | Tom Henderson (Pk 7); David Thompson (Pk 1); Marvin Webster (Pk 3) |
| MIL | 1976 | 1977 | 3 | Quinn Buckner (Pk 7); Kent Benson (Pk 1); Marques Johnson (Pk 3) |
| NJN | 1979 | 1980 | 3 | Calvin Natt (Pk 8); Mike O'Koren (Pk 6); Mike Gminski (Pk 7) |
| NJN | 1980 | 1981 | 3 | Mike O'Koren (Pk 6); Mike Gminski (Pk 7); Buck Williams (Pk 3) |
| HOU | 1983 | 1984 | 3 | Ralph Sampson (Pk 1); Rodney McCray (Pk 3); Hakeem Olajuwon (Pk 1) |
| CLE | 1986 | 1987 | 3 | Brad Daugherty (Pk 1); Ron Harper (Pk 8); Kevin Johnson (Pk 7) |
| LAC | 1987 | 1988 | 3 | Reggie Williams (Pk 4); Danny Manning (Pk 1); Hersey Hawkins (Pk 6) |
| LAC | 1988 | 1989 | 3 | Danny Manning (Pk 1); Hersey Hawkins (Pk 6); Danny Ferry (Pk 2) |
| DEN | 1990 | 1991 | 3 | Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (Pk 3); Dikembe Mutombo (Pk 4); Mark Macon (Pk 8) |
| DEN | 1991 | 1992 | 3 | Dikembe Mutombo (Pk 4); Mark Macon (Pk 8); LaPhonso Ellis (Pk 5) |
| BOS | 1996 | 1997 | 3 | Antoine Walker (Pk 6); Chauncey Billups (Pk 3); Ron Mercer (Pk 6) |
| CHI | 1999 | 2000 | 3 | Elton Brand (Pk 1); Marcus Fizer (Pk 4); Chris Mihm (Pk 7) |
| CHI | 2000 | 2001 | 3 | Marcus Fizer (Pk 4); Chris Mihm (Pk 7); Eddy Curry (Pk 4) |
| MIN | 2008 | 2009 | 3 | O.J. Mayo (Pk 3); Ricky Rubio (Pk 5); Jonny Flynn (Pk 6) |
| MIN | 2009 | 2010 | 3 | Ricky Rubio (Pk 5); Jonny Flynn (Pk 6); Wesley Johnson (Pk 4) |
| CLE | 2011 | 2012 | 3 | Kyrie Irving (Pk 1); Tristan Thompson (Pk 4); Dion Waiters (Pk 4) |
| ORL | 2021 | 2022 | 3 | Jalen Suggs (Pk 5); Franz Wagner (Pk 8); Paolo Banchero (Pk 1) |
| SAS | 2023 | 2024 | 3 | Victor Wembanyama (Pk 1); Stephon Castle (Pk 4); Rob Dillingham (Pk 8) |


Here it is with the players selected as it is pretty interesting to see.

[Knightro]

Orlando's top three players in minutes last season were 22 and younger. To appreciate how many wins can be expected of a team with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger you look for other teams with their top three players in minutes 22 and younger see what those teams did in wins and use that as a baseline. Orlando's 47 wins are in the 93rd percentile, evidence that this is one of the best young cores of all time.

How many NBA teams in history have made three top 8 picks across two drafts?

You've asked this before, so you must have some argument in mind for this pattern. There have been 15 teams with 3 picks in the top 8 in consecutive years.

| Tm | StartYear | EndYear | TotalTop8 | Players |
|-----|-----------|---------|-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| NYK | 1965 | 1966 | 3 | Bill Bradley (Pk 2); Dave Stallworth (Pk 5); Cazzie Russell (Pk 1) |
| SFW | 1965 | 1966 | 3 | Fred Hetzel (Pk 1); Rick Barry (Pk 4); Clyde Lee (Pk 3) |
| DET | 1966 | 1967 | 3 | Dave Bing (Pk 2); Jimmy Walker (Pk 1); Sonny Dove (Pk 4) |
| DET | 1967 | 1968 | 3 | Jimmy Walker (Pk 1); Sonny Dove (Pk 4); Otto Moore (Pk 6) |
| ATL | 1974 | 1975 | 3 | Tom Henderson (Pk 7); David Thompson (Pk 1); Marvin Webster (Pk 3) |
| MIL | 1976 | 1977 | 3 | Quinn Buckner (Pk 7); Kent Benson (Pk 1); Marques Johnson (Pk 3) |
| NJN | 1979 | 1980 | 3 | Calvin Natt (Pk 8); Mike O'Koren (Pk 6); Mike Gminski (Pk 7) |
| NJN | 1980 | 1981 | 3 | Mike O'Koren (Pk 6); Mike Gminski (Pk 7); Buck Williams (Pk 3) |
| HOU | 1983 | 1984 | 3 | Ralph Sampson (Pk 1); Rodney McCray (Pk 3); Hakeem Olajuwon (Pk 1) |
| CLE | 1986 | 1987 | 3 | Brad Daugherty (Pk 1); Ron Harper (Pk 8); Kevin Johnson (Pk 7) |
| LAC | 1987 | 1988 | 3 | Reggie Williams (Pk 4); Danny Manning (Pk 1); Hersey Hawkins (Pk 6) |
| LAC | 1988 | 1989 | 3 | Danny Manning (Pk 1); Hersey Hawkins (Pk 6); Danny Ferry (Pk 2) |
| DEN | 1990 | 1991 | 3 | Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (Pk 3); Dikembe Mutombo (Pk 4); Mark Macon (Pk 8) |
| DEN | 1991 | 1992 | 3 | Dikembe Mutombo (Pk 4); Mark Macon (Pk 8); LaPhonso Ellis (Pk 5) |
| BOS | 1996 | 1997 | 3 | Antoine Walker (Pk 6); Chauncey Billups (Pk 3); Ron Mercer (Pk 6) |
| CHI | 1999 | 2000 | 3 | Elton Brand (Pk 1); Marcus Fizer (Pk 4); Chris Mihm (Pk 7) |
| CHI | 2000 | 2001 | 3 | Marcus Fizer (Pk 4); Chris Mihm (Pk 7); Eddy Curry (Pk 4) |
| MIN | 2008 | 2009 | 3 | O.J. Mayo (Pk 3); Ricky Rubio (Pk 5); Jonny Flynn (Pk 6) |
| MIN | 2009 | 2010 | 3 | Ricky Rubio (Pk 5); Jonny Flynn (Pk 6); Wesley Johnson (Pk 4) |
| CLE | 2011 | 2012 | 3 | Kyrie Irving (Pk 1); Tristan Thompson (Pk 4); Dion Waiters (Pk 4) |
| ORL | 2021 | 2022 | 3 | Jalen Suggs (Pk 5); Franz Wagner (Pk 8); Paolo Banchero (Pk 1) |
| SAS | 2023 | 2024 | 3 | Victor Wembanyama (Pk 1); Stephon Castle (Pk 4); Rob Dillingham (Pk 8) |


Here it is with the players selected as it is pretty interesting to see.

So 15 times in the history of the league and really that number is quite a bit less than that as several of the players you listed were actually traded on draft night without actually playing a minute for the team that “drafted” them.

Hawkins, Mihm, Mayo and Dillingham were traded away on draft night.

Rubio didn’t come over immediately from Europe.

Ferry refused to play for the Clippers.

Now all of a sudden the sample size is tiny, with the majority of the examples being pre-Jordan for goodness sake.

[eyriq]

How many NBA teams in history have made three top 8 picks across two drafts?

You've asked this before, so you must have some argument in mind for this pattern. There have been 15 teams with 3 picks in the top 8 in consecutive years.

| Tm | StartYear | EndYear | TotalTop8 | Players |
|-----|-----------|---------|-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| NYK | 1965 | 1966 | 3 | Bill Bradley (Pk 2); Dave Stallworth (Pk 5); Cazzie Russell (Pk 1) |
| SFW | 1965 | 1966 | 3 | Fred Hetzel (Pk 1); Rick Barry (Pk 4); Clyde Lee (Pk 3) |
| DET | 1966 | 1967 | 3 | Dave Bing (Pk 2); Jimmy Walker (Pk 1); Sonny Dove (Pk 4) |
| DET | 1967 | 1968 | 3 | Jimmy Walker (Pk 1); Sonny Dove (Pk 4); Otto Moore (Pk 6) |
| ATL | 1974 | 1975 | 3 | Tom Henderson (Pk 7); David Thompson (Pk 1); Marvin Webster (Pk 3) |
| MIL | 1976 | 1977 | 3 | Quinn Buckner (Pk 7); Kent Benson (Pk 1); Marques Johnson (Pk 3) |
| NJN | 1979 | 1980 | 3 | Calvin Natt (Pk 8); Mike O'Koren (Pk 6); Mike Gminski (Pk 7) |
| NJN | 1980 | 1981 | 3 | Mike O'Koren (Pk 6); Mike Gminski (Pk 7); Buck Williams (Pk 3) |
| HOU | 1983 | 1984 | 3 | Ralph Sampson (Pk 1); Rodney McCray (Pk 3); Hakeem Olajuwon (Pk 1) |
| CLE | 1986 | 1987 | 3 | Brad Daugherty (Pk 1); Ron Harper (Pk 8); Kevin Johnson (Pk 7) |
| LAC | 1987 | 1988 | 3 | Reggie Williams (Pk 4); Danny Manning (Pk 1); Hersey Hawkins (Pk 6) |
| LAC | 1988 | 1989 | 3 | Danny Manning (Pk 1); Hersey Hawkins (Pk 6); Danny Ferry (Pk 2) |
| DEN | 1990 | 1991 | 3 | Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (Pk 3); Dikembe Mutombo (Pk 4); Mark Macon (Pk 8) |
| DEN | 1991 | 1992 | 3 | Dikembe Mutombo (Pk 4); Mark Macon (Pk 8); LaPhonso Ellis (Pk 5) |
| BOS | 1996 | 1997 | 3 | Antoine Walker (Pk 6); Chauncey Billups (Pk 3); Ron Mercer (Pk 6) |
| CHI | 1999 | 2000 | 3 | Elton Brand (Pk 1); Marcus Fizer (Pk 4); Chris Mihm (Pk 7) |
| CHI | 2000 | 2001 | 3 | Marcus Fizer (Pk 4); Chris Mihm (Pk 7); Eddy Curry (Pk 4) |
| MIN | 2008 | 2009 | 3 | O.J. Mayo (Pk 3); Ricky Rubio (Pk 5); Jonny Flynn (Pk 6) |
| MIN | 2009 | 2010 | 3 | Ricky Rubio (Pk 5); Jonny Flynn (Pk 6); Wesley Johnson (Pk 4) |
| CLE | 2011 | 2012 | 3 | Kyrie Irving (Pk 1); Tristan Thompson (Pk 4); Dion Waiters (Pk 4) |
| ORL | 2021 | 2022 | 3 | Jalen Suggs (Pk 5); Franz Wagner (Pk 8); Paolo Banchero (Pk 1) |
| SAS | 2023 | 2024 | 3 | Victor Wembanyama (Pk 1); Stephon Castle (Pk 4); Rob Dillingham (Pk 8) |


Here it is with the players selected as it is pretty interesting to see.

So 15 times in the history of the league and really that number is quite a bit less than that as several of the players you listed were actually traded on draft night without actually playing a minute for the team that “drafted” them.

Hawkins, Mihm, Mayo and Dillingham were traded away on draft night.

Rubio didn’t come over immediately from Europe.

Ferry refused to play for the Clippers.

Now all of a sudden the sample size is tiny, with the majority of the examples being pre-Jordan for goodness sake.

And why is this feature relevant to you? What does this information add to your appreciation for our core? A flag on a team's season for "three top 8 picks in two years" isn't really that interesting unless you think it's related to a team having a "young core" like Orlando's to begin with? I don't really understand what your point is TBH.

Looking at wins for teams with their top three most played players having a weighted average age of 22 and younger is all the information you need.

Even so, we've done excellent relative to the teams on that list above. One of the best young cores of all time no matter how you slice it.

[Knightro]

And why is this feature relevant to you? What does this information add to your appreciation for our core? A flag on a team's season for "three top 8 picks in two years" isn't really that interesting unless you think it's related to a team having a "young core" like Orlando's to begin with? I don't really understand what your point is TBH.

Looking at wins for teams with their top three most played players having a weighted average age of 22 and younger is all the information you need.

Even so, we've done excellent relative to the teams on that list above. One of the best young cores of all time no matter how you slice it.

Because, smart guy, the vast majority of teams that end up featuring three very young guys in their top three in minutes played, they were not all high lotto picks (including the first overall pick).

The Magic *should* have a more productive “young core” than most teams because all three guys were drafted very high over two drafts, which basically never happens around the league.

[eyriq]

And why is this feature relevant to you? What does this information add to your appreciation for our core? A flag on a team's season for "three top 8 picks in two years" isn't really that interesting unless you think it's related to a team having a "young core" like Orlando's to begin with? I don't really understand what your point is TBH.

Looking at wins for teams with their top three most played players having a weighted average age of 22 and younger is all the information you need.

Even so, we've done excellent relative to the teams on that list above. One of the best young cores of all time no matter how you slice it.

Because, smart guy, the vast majority of teams that end up featuring three very young guys in their top three in minutes played, they were not all high lotto picks (including the first overall pick).

The Magic *should* have a more productive “young core” than most teams because all three guys were drafted very high over two drafts, which basically never happens around the league.

does that list confirm your hypothesis? LOL

[Knightro]

And why is this feature relevant to you? What does this information add to your appreciation for our core? A flag on a team's season for "three top 8 picks in two years" isn't really that interesting unless you think it's related to a team having a "young core" like Orlando's to begin with? I don't really understand what your point is TBH.

Looking at wins for teams with their top three most played players having a weighted average age of 22 and younger is all the information you need.

Even so, we've done excellent relative to the teams on that list above. One of the best young cores of all time no matter how you slice it.

Because, smart guy, the vast majority of teams that end up featuring three very young guys in their top three in minutes played, they were not all high lotto picks (including the first overall pick).

The Magic *should* have a more productive “young core” than most teams because all three guys were drafted very high over two drafts, which basically never happens around the league.

does that list confirm your hypothesis? LOL

Not that list, but the other list of “qualified young cores” you shared a bit back certainly did.