JK: Who's Fault Is it?

[vvoland]

It’s unreal how much people defend kuminga and refuse to hold him accountable for his play on the court.

The phantom upside is blinding people. He’s just not an additive basketball player.

Even in the wolves series where he shot the ball pretty well and made less dumb decisions, he still hardly impacted winning.

And we have a 4 year sample size.

The why did Steph/dray have a better net rating with jk than without him?

[SpreeS]

It’s unreal how much people defend kuminga and refuse to hold him accountable for his play on the court.

The phantom upside is blinding people. He’s just not an additive basketball player.

Even in the wolves series where he shot the ball pretty well and made less dumb decisions, he still hardly impacted winning.

And we have a 4 year sample size.

The why did Steph/dray have a better net rating with jk than without him?

Better question would be why Kuminga has the best nrtg with Curry/Green from main rotation players on the team in past two years. Aslo Curry/Green w/o Kuminga has the worst nrtg compared with Curry/Green w/o main rotation player (Klay/Wiggs/Podz/Hield/Paul/Moody) in last two years. This is two years data, this isn’t noisy

[vvoland]

It’s unreal how much people defend kuminga and refuse to hold him accountable for his play on the court.

The phantom upside is blinding people. He’s just not an additive basketball player.

Even in the wolves series where he shot the ball pretty well and made less dumb decisions, he still hardly impacted winning.

And we have a 4 year sample size.

The why did Steph/dray have a better net rating with jk than without him?

Better question would be why Kuminga has the best nrtg with Curry/Green from main rotation players on the team in past two years. Aslo Curry/Green w/o Kuminga has the worst nrtg compared with Curry/Green w/o main rotation player (Klay/Wiggs/Podz/Hield/Paul/Moody) in last two years. This is two years data, this isn’t noisy

Why do you think Kerr refuses to see this (despite referencing how important lineup data is)? He keeps saying it doesn't work while not even trying to play the lineups that would maximize Steph/dray/jk - a shooter and secondary ball handler?

[SpreeS]

It’s unreal how much people defend kuminga and refuse to hold him accountable for his play on the court.

The phantom upside is blinding people. He’s just not an additive basketball player.

Even in the wolves series where he shot the ball pretty well and made less dumb decisions, he still hardly impacted winning.

And we have a 4 year sample size.

Yes we have 4y sample size and numbers show thats he is the best pairing with Curry/Green combo…

[SpreeS]

The why did Steph/dray have a better net rating with jk than without him?

Better question would be why Kuminga has the best nrtg with Curry/Green from main rotation players on the team in past two years. Aslo Curry/Green w/o Kuminga has the worst nrtg compared with Curry/Green w/o main rotation player (Klay/Wiggs/Podz/Hield/Paul/Moody) in last two years. This is two years data, this isn’t noisy

Why do you think Kerr refuses to see this (despite referencing how important lineup data is)? He keeps saying it doesn't work while not even trying to play the lineups that would maximize Steph/dray/jk - a shooter and secondary ball handler?

[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube

Look slowly at this video with stops....Buddy is wide open and Jones is defending Curry. When Buddy started shooting motion Jones leaves Curry. GSW lead +20pts and this is 2nd Q....Hield will be soon in TOP10 ALLTime in made 3P on 40% shooting.

Look at Kerr reaction. This is totally not adequate.If Kerr can get frustrated in this kind of situations, can you imagine what he thinks about Kuminga??? Every time is very stressful for this dude, when Kuminga touch the ball and any statistics in the world won't l help here.

[Onus]

Better question would be why Kuminga has the best nrtg with Curry/Green from main rotation players on the team in past two years. Aslo Curry/Green w/o Kuminga has the worst nrtg compared with Curry/Green w/o main rotation player (Klay/Wiggs/Podz/Hield/Paul/Moody) in last two years. This is two years data, this isn’t noisy

Why do you think Kerr refuses to see this (despite referencing how important lineup data is)? He keeps saying it doesn't work while not even trying to play the lineups that would maximize Steph/dray/jk - a shooter and secondary ball handler?

[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube

Look slowly at this video with stops....Buddy is wide open and Jones is defending Curry. When Buddy started shooting motion Jones leaves Curry. GSW lead +20pts and this is 2nd Q....Hield will be soon in TOP10 ALLTime in made 3P on 40% shooting.

Look at Kerr reaction. This is totally not adequate.If Kerr can get frustrated in this kind of situations, can you imagine what he thinks about Kuminga??? Every time is very stressful for this dude, when Kuminga touch the ball and any statistics in the world won't l help here.

If jk just cut out contested mid range jump shots with more than 10 seconds left on the clock he’d probably get more leeway.

Really once jk gets a large extension Kerr will likely be unwilling to bench him. Kerr really only does that before the large extension. He was unwilling to bench Klay or jp on large contracts.

[DB23]

It’s unreal how much people defend kuminga and refuse to hold him accountable for his play on the court.

The phantom upside is blinding people. He’s just not an additive basketball player.

Even in the wolves series where he shot the ball pretty well and made less dumb decisions, he still hardly impacted winning.

And we have a 4 year sample size.

Yes we have 4y sample size and numbers show thats he is the best pairing with Curry/Green combo…

Let’s ignore that we are 500 or below team with that combo.

And if we simply replace kuminga with butler we become fringe contenders.

Kuminga IMO is not good. Just because his replacements on this team are weak does not mean he is good. He plays losing basketball.

[DB23]

Better question would be why Kuminga has the best nrtg with Curry/Green from main rotation players on the team in past two years. Aslo Curry/Green w/o Kuminga has the worst nrtg compared with Curry/Green w/o main rotation player (Klay/Wiggs/Podz/Hield/Paul/Moody) in last two years. This is two years data, this isn’t noisy

Why do you think Kerr refuses to see this (despite referencing how important lineup data is)? He keeps saying it doesn't work while not even trying to play the lineups that would maximize Steph/dray/jk - a shooter and secondary ball handler?

[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube

Look slowly at this video with stops....Buddy is wide open and Jones is defending Curry. When Buddy started shooting motion Jones leaves Curry. GSW lead +20pts and this is 2nd Q....Hield will be soon in TOP10 ALLTime in made 3P on 40% shooting.

Look at Kerr reaction. This is totally not adequate.If Kerr can get frustrated in this kind of situations, can you imagine what he thinks about Kuminga??? Every time is very stressful for this dude, when Kuminga touch the ball and any statistics in the world won't l help here.

Poor guy getting paid millions gets stressed at that? You guys baby him. When has he ever made this team look like a contender?

[DB23]

Just to add - Kerr did play kuminga plenty with green and curry. We weren’t very good.

We added butler and became light years better and it rarely worked with butler/kuminga/dray

It’s just my opinion but I don’t believe kuminga makes anyone better. We push the lace and he’s athletic enough to score points but in the half court is offense kind of sucks and is deceiving.

His defense is really hit or miss obviously too.

Real question for the kuminga homers, what are you wanting Kerr to have done? He’s given kuminga plenty of minutes? You want more minutes or the offense to revolve around him?

[SpreeS]

It’s unreal how much people defend kuminga and refuse to hold him accountable for his play on the court.

The phantom upside is blinding people. He’s just not an additive basketball player.

Even in the wolves series where he shot the ball pretty well and made less dumb decisions, he still hardly impacted winning.

And we have a 4 year sample size.

Yes we have 4y sample size and numbers show thats he is the best pairing with Curry/Green combo…

Let’s ignore that we are 500 or below team with that combo.

And if we simply replace kuminga with butler we become fringe contenders.

Kuminga IMO is not good. Just because his replacements on this team are weak does not mean he is good. He plays losing basketball.

How hard with these type of people to have discussion. All numbers your can find in one of my post in this topic….if you have analytical thinking you will get your answers.

[SpreeS]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/5RD3aH1Ros8?si=cO8LuGGIyOtrSbs4[/youtube]

Good question to Kerr was about plan B when Curry isn’t on the floor. And its not about the last 4 games. Its more about that 37y old player must play +40 min in tied games.

Yes Curry is our sun, everyone agree with that. But this sun will go to sunset very fast (we saw that with Minny) if you don’t limit his playing time to max 35min in PO. So what is a plan B? Looking at Kerr answers where is no plan B or C or D

[DB23]

Yes we have 4y sample size and numbers show thats he is the best pairing with Curry/Green combo…

Let’s ignore that we are 500 or below team with that combo.

And if we simply replace kuminga with butler we become fringe contenders.

Kuminga IMO is not good. Just because his replacements on this team are weak does not mean he is good. He plays losing basketball.

How hard with these type of people to have discussion. All numbers your can find in one of my post in this topic….if you have analytical thinking you will get your answers.

Yeah it’s just my opinion but if I find your posts unconvincing. I don’t form opinions purely on the basis of net rating because the sample can be too small and distorted. Actually I think how you use it perfectly illustrates the point. It’s not that kuminga is completely useless. It’s that he thinks he’s Kobe and worth 30-40mil per when he doesn’t have that kind of impact. I don’t believe you’ve shown he does and I doubt even you believe that.

At some point you just need to watch the games to tell you what you are seeing. And I think it’d be a huge mistake to pay kuminga over 15-20 mil per year. That you can’t win with him as a second option and it’s never looked like you can either.

Just to add - you seem to be saying that Kerr needs to change the offense for Kuminga and Schroeder and that’s where I disagree. They don’t have the talent level to change anything for. Would be different if he couldn’t incorporate and actual talent star but for sure you can say certain players don’t fit.

[Onus]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/5RD3aH1Ros8?si=cO8LuGGIyOtrSbs4[/youtube]

Good question to Kerr was about plan B when Curry isn’t on the floor. And its not about the last 4 games. Its more about that 37y old player must play +40 min in tied games.

Yes Curry is our sun, everyone agree with that. But this sun will go to sunset very fast (we saw that with Minny) if you don’t limit his playing time to max 35min in PO. So what is a plan B? Looking at Kerr answers where is no plan B or C or D

The team is not a championship team if curry is only playing 35 min in the po. Has there ever been a championship team where their best player only played 35 min the the po?

We just need to lighten the load in the regular season. He was having to carry a ton in the regular season and especially down the stretch trying to avoid the play in even with Jimmy.

I said we should’ve tanked the last week of the season and just accepted that we were going to be in the play to give Steph/dray and Jimmy rest before the playoffs rather than trying to win every game especially with how difficult our end of the season was with essentially no rest and a ton of travel.

We have to do better in the middle of the season so we can get more rest at the end of the season.

[vvoland]

Youre saying kerr played jk with Steph/dray plenty. I'm saying 600 possessions is just under 6 games and that's all the minutes he's played with Steph and dray in the ~60 games they were all healthy this year. I'm sorry, that's neither "enough" nor plenty. Even more frustrating, the lineups that make the most intuitive sense only saw 24 possessions together, ALL YEAR.

Don't move the goalposts. We're not saying he's Kobe or is worth $Xm/yr. I'm saying he improves the performance of our best players, he's part of our best lineups, and even if you don't believe in net rating, what other metric do you want to use to measure his on-court impact?

Sure, we were a .500 team with him but it wasn't because of the lineups where he played with Steph and dray. In fact, those three played at a level that would have been historically great if it was over a full season (+9 net rating). The difference between +7.1 (what Steph/dray had without jk) and 9.1 is massive (~30% improvement).

I show you the lineup numbers this season. Spree expanded it to a 4 year sample. Beyond the eye test, what do you need to see to think jk would fit with Steph/dray? We've been told he doesn't, I mostly believed Kerr, until I looked at the lineup data. It's pretty conclusive and, as someone who works with data, if I got that type of impact from 1 change, I'd get promoted.

[vvoland]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/5RD3aH1Ros8?si=cO8LuGGIyOtrSbs4[/youtube]

Good question to Kerr was about plan B when Curry isn’t on the floor. And its not about the last 4 games. Its more about that 37y old player must play +40 min in tied games.

Yes Curry is our sun, everyone agree with that. But this sun will go to sunset very fast (we saw that with Minny) if you don’t limit his playing time to max 35min in PO. So what is a plan B? Looking at Kerr answers where is no plan B or C or D

The team is not a championship team if curry is only playing 35 min in the po. Has there ever been a championship team where their best player only played 35 min the the po?

We just need to lighten the load in the regular season. He was having to carry a ton in the regular season and especially down the stretch trying to avoid the play in even with Jimmy.

I said we should’ve tanked the last week of the season and just accepted that we were going to be in the play to give Steph/dray and Jimmy rest before the playoffs rather than trying to win every game especially with how difficult our end of the season was with essentially no rest and a ton of travel.

We have to do better in the middle of the season so we can get more rest at the end of the season.

35 mpg in the PO is unrealistic but so is cutting back on his RS minus unless our kids step up. The West is getting even harder and we'll need to keep pace, seeding was super important.

Remember that one game where we had the lead, the opponent didn't want to foul, and there was less than a 2 second difference between shot and game clock? Steph shot a J with like 9 seconds left, they got the rebound, called TO, and won on a buzzer beater? I think we all knew it at the time but that decision really cost us. Sure, there were other moments but none as stark as that one. We could have been 6, rested for a week, ran through LA, and waited for hou/Minny to maim each other.

[jaymo123]

I give Kuminga a pass for the first year, year and a half maybe. He has to be held accountable for his lack of growth as he has not adapted his game to what the Dubs need from him. Maybe he's thinking too much about the contract but it seems when he''s on the court, his focus is to get his and not do what is best for the team.

Another thing is his defense and rebounding. His on-ball D is ok most of the times when he's not reaching or jumping at every pump fake, but his team D and rotations are horrible. When it comes to rebounding, Curry should never be a better rebounder than a guy who is 6'8", 225 to 230 with above-average leaping ability.

Kuminga has the tools to be great if he ever puts it together but I don't think he can do that with the Dubs.

[Onus]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/5RD3aH1Ros8?si=cO8LuGGIyOtrSbs4[/youtube]

Good question to Kerr was about plan B when Curry isn’t on the floor. And its not about the last 4 games. Its more about that 37y old player must play +40 min in tied games.

Yes Curry is our sun, everyone agree with that. But this sun will go to sunset very fast (we saw that with Minny) if you don’t limit his playing time to max 35min in PO. So what is a plan B? Looking at Kerr answers where is no plan B or C or D

The team is not a championship team if curry is only playing 35 min in the po. Has there ever been a championship team where their best player only played 35 min the the po?

We just need to lighten the load in the regular season. He was having to carry a ton in the regular season and especially down the stretch trying to avoid the play in even with Jimmy.

I said we should’ve tanked the last week of the season and just accepted that we were going to be in the play to give Steph/dray and Jimmy rest before the playoffs rather than trying to win every game especially with how difficult our end of the season was with essentially no rest and a ton of travel.

We have to do better in the middle of the season so we can get more rest at the end of the season.

35 mpg in the PO is unrealistic but so is cutting back on his RS minus unless our kids step up. The West is getting even harder and we'll need to keep pace, seeding was super important.

Remember that one game where we had the lead, the opponent didn't want to foul, and there was less than a 2 second difference between shot and game clock? Steph shot a J with like 9 seconds left, they got the rebound, called TO, and won on a buzzer beater? I think we all knew it at the time but that decision really cost us. Sure, there were other moments but none as stark as that one. We could have been 6, rested for a week, ran through LA, and waited for hou/Minny to maim each other.

2 day extra rest which is the difference between the 6th seed and winning the first play in game is negligible to me. I’m talking about at least a week off and then playing 1 game for the play in.

I don’t think we played in the same city in the last month of the season. While playing every other day at best.

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

I give Kuminga a pass for the first year, year and a half maybe. He has to be held accountable for his lack of growth as he has not adapted his game to what the Dubs need from him. Maybe he's thinking too much about the contract but it seems when he''s on the court, his focus is to get his and not do what is best for the team.

Another thing is his defense and rebounding. His on-ball D is ok most of the times when he's not reaching or jumping at every pump fake, but his team D and rotations are horrible. When it comes to rebounding, Curry should never be a better rebounder than a guy who is 6'8", 225 to 230 with above-average leaping ability.

Kuminga has the tools to be great if he ever puts it together but I don't think he can do that with the Dubs.

I wouldn't say great because I don't see him anywhere near a top 20 player in the league at his peak.

Since I've decided to follow Butler, I've seen a situation like this. Andrew Wiggins was one of these players, ownership pushed the coaching staff to hand him minutes (which they did), the owner personally gave him a max contract and soon after figured out it was a mistake and sent him with a trade asset (who became Kuminga) to GS to bring in D-Lo (and filler) who was great friends with Towns (that didn't work either). For Wiggins, It took some humbling like a trade and obviously not being a top talent on the team before he started playing witin his skill set vs being a top option he wanted to be.

Kuminga needs to have his ego put in check and that's not happening in Golden State. Kerr is trying to do it while the owner seems to be sending different signals to Kuminga (basically wait your turn), I wouldn't doubt this owner resigns Kuminga with an understanding with Kuminga's camp to wait his turn for a couple of seasons (maybe put Kuminga in a 6th man scorers role but paid as a young star) for Curry to retire and then hand over the reins to Kuminga. If that's the plan by ownership... and it doesn't work out you not only lose Curry, Butler and Draymond all at once, you don't even get all their cap space to use because now Kuminga will be eating up a good chunk and possibly give ownership 1 year of him as a starter or top player to decide if they're going to extend him on his 3rd contract or possibly lose him for nothing in FA after his 4th year of his deal is up (I'm expecting this 2nd deal to be 3-4 years and probably having a player's option to entice him to sign it).

[DAWill1128]

I wanted the Warriors to draft Kuminga. But every step of the way I wanted him traded for immediate help.

But what did people see in this Wolves series? Most of the guys were absolutely terrible and Kuminga was electric. Kuminga was the biggest reason we had any shot. Kuminga was able to match up with Edwards on both ends, nobody else could.

Who else played well? Jimmy is a very good player and helped on both ends. After that most guys looked terrible. Kuminga looked way better than most all of the roster in that Wolves series.

[SpreeS]

Spoiler:

I give Kuminga a pass for the first year, year and a half maybe. He has to be held accountable for his lack of growth as he has not adapted his game to what the Dubs need from him. Maybe he's thinking too much about the contract but it seems when he''s on the court, his focus is to get his and not do what is best for the team.
In
Another thing is his defense and rebounding. His on-ball D is ok most of the times when he's not reaching or jumping at every pump fake, but his team D and rotations are horrible. When it comes to rebounding, Curry should never be a better rebounder than a guy who is 6'8", 225 to 230 with above-average leaping ability.

Kuminga has the tools to be great if he ever puts it together but I don't think he can do that with the Dubs.

I wouldn't say great because I don't see him anywhere near a top 20 player in the league at his peak.

Since I've decided to follow Butler, I've seen a situation like this. Andrew Wiggins was one of these players, ownership pushed the coaching staff to hand him minutes (which they did), the owner personally gave him a max contract and soon after figured out it was a mistake and sent him with a trade asset (who became Kuminga) to GS to bring in D-Lo (and filler) who was great friends with Towns (that didn't work either). For Wiggins, It took some humbling like a trade and obviously not being a top talent on the team before he started playing witin his skill set vs being a top option he wanted to be.

Kuminga needs to have his ego put in check and that's not happening in Golden State. Kerr is trying to do it while the owner seems to be sending different signals to Kuminga (basically wait your turn), I wouldn't doubt this owner resigns Kuminga with an understanding with Kuminga's camp to wait his turn for a couple of seasons (maybe put Kuminga in a 6th man scorers role but paid as a young star) for Curry to retire and then hand over the reins to Kuminga. If that's the plan by ownership... and it doesn't work out you not only lose Curry, Butler and Draymond all at once, you don't even get all their cap space to use because now Kuminga will be eating up a good chunk and possibly give ownership 1 year of him as a starter or top player to decide if they're going to extend him on his 3rd contract or possibly lose him for nothing in FA after his 4th year of his deal is up (I'm expecting this 2nd deal to be 3-4 years and probably having a player's option to entice him to sign it).

About eating a cap…140mln for 3 +35y players is disaster incoming. This is written on the wall that this team is max 2nd exit, b/c no role players will help these grandpa’s