2025 NBA Combine ****

[clyde21]

I said length, not wingspan. I bolded it so you won't miss it. Make sure to read carefully.

not sure what that means but ok

Wingspan is measured with your arms out, but when reaching up or out in front, your arm length is largely what's being used functionally on the floor.

It's why the NFL measures arm length rather than wingspan and why it's an especially important marker for lineman who play largely with their arms out in front them.

i am well aware of what wingspan is, how it "understates length" is where i'm confused.

and the NFL measures wingspan, not sure where you got that from. it's especially important at positions like OT and WR and CBs.

[EvanZ]

Keep in mind we were all originally walking on all 4 limbs. So our arms and legs should be proportionate length. Longer arms means longer legs, shorter torso, higher hips, etc. it’s all important for biomechanics. I think about these things when I walk my dog lol.

[RipCity71252]

not sure what that means but ok

Wingspan is measured with your arms out, but when reaching up or out in front, your arm length is largely what's being used functionally on the floor.

It's why the NFL measures arm length rather than wingspan and why it's an especially important marker for lineman who play largely with their arms out in front them.

i am well aware of what wingspan is, how it "understates length" is where i'm confused.

and the NFL measures wingspan, not sure where you got that from. it's especially important at positions like OT and WR and CBs.

I donr know how else to explain so not sure what to say....

And the NFL looks at Arm Length as a more relevant marker. Look at any NFL draft prospect profile and Arm Length is listed, not wingspan.

[clyde21]

Wingspan is measured with your arms out, but when reaching up or out in front, your arm length is largely what's being used functionally on the floor.

It's why the NFL measures arm length rather than wingspan and why it's an especially important marker for lineman who play largely with their arms out in front them.

i am well aware of what wingspan is, how it "understates length" is where i'm confused.

and the NFL measures wingspan, not sure where you got that from. it's especially important at positions like OT and WR and CBs.

I donr know how else to explain so not sure what to say....

And the NFL looks at Arm Length as a more relevant marker. Look at any NFL draft prospect profile and Arm Length is listed, not wingspan.

I haven't seen you explain how wingspan "understates length" anywhere. Try again.

and here are NFL combine measurements, wingspan listed right next arm length for all prospects, and in some positional cases it's more important: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/full-list-of-nfl-combine-2025-measurements-and-40-yard-dash-times-plus-winners-and-losers-from-every-position/

[RipCity71252]

i am well aware of what wingspan is, how it "understates length" is where i'm confused.

and the NFL measures wingspan, not sure where you got that from. it's especially important at positions like OT and WR and CBs.

I donr know how else to explain so not sure what to say....

And the NFL looks at Arm Length as a more relevant marker. Look at any NFL draft prospect profile and Arm Length is listed, not wingspan.

I haven't seen you explain how wingspan "understates length" anywhere. Try again.

and here are NFL combine measurements, wingspan listed right next arm length for all prospects, and in some positional cases it's more important: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/full-list-of-nfl-combine-2025-measurements-and-40-yard-dash-times-plus-winners-and-losers-from-every-position/

Take two guys with a 6'11" wingspan. If one has super broad shoulders and chest and the other has super narrow shoulders and chest, the one with narrow shoulders / chest is going to have a longer reach when reaching out in front of them and reaching above their head.. That's why the NFL...while yes measuring both wingspan and arm length...uses arm length as a more relevant benchmark for length for offensive lineman....because they play with their arms out in front of them most often and for receivers because they are often reaching above their head.

This would warrant the comment of wingspan underestimating length of players with narrow shoulders / chest. And to be clear, I'm not the original guy that you were arguing this point with.

Not to be rude, but this is basic body proportions and biomechanics

[eminence]

In basketball arm length is also notable for getting your hands closer to the floor, a significant factor in dribbling potential.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I donr know how else to explain so not sure what to say....

And the NFL looks at Arm Length as a more relevant marker. Look at any NFL draft prospect profile and Arm Length is listed, not wingspan.

I haven't seen you explain how wingspan "understates length" anywhere. Try again.

and here are NFL combine measurements, wingspan listed right next arm length for all prospects, and in some positional cases it's more important: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/full-list-of-nfl-combine-2025-measurements-and-40-yard-dash-times-plus-winners-and-losers-from-every-position/

Take two guys with a 6'11" wingspan. If one has super broad shoulders and chest and the other has super narrow shoulders and chest, the one with narrow shoulders / chest is going to have a longer reach when reaching out in front of them and reaching above their head.. That's why the NFL...while yes measuring both wingspan and arm length...uses arm length as a more relevant benchmark for length for offensive lineman....because they play with their arms out in front of them most often and for receivers because they are often reaching above their head.

This would warrant the comment of wingspan underestimating length of players with narrow shoulders / chest. And to be clear, I'm not the original guy that you were arguing this point with.

Not to be rude, but this is basic body proportions and biomechanics

this was a great explanation and another reason why wingspan alone isn't everything. The way I see it, WS is to defend passing lanes and reach is for shot-blocking and dribbling. That said, unless they're gimping their own reach to accentuate their vertical, most guys with great reach have equally great wingspan and vice versa so it's not really a debate that is relevant except for very extreme cases. imho wingspan matters more for guards and wings than it does for bigs and reach matters more for bigs than guards and wings though of course it matters some for everyone.

[clyde21]

I donr know how else to explain so not sure what to say....

And the NFL looks at Arm Length as a more relevant marker. Look at any NFL draft prospect profile and Arm Length is listed, not wingspan.

I haven't seen you explain how wingspan "understates length" anywhere. Try again.

and here are NFL combine measurements, wingspan listed right next arm length for all prospects, and in some positional cases it's more important: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/full-list-of-nfl-combine-2025-measurements-and-40-yard-dash-times-plus-winners-and-losers-from-every-position/

Take two guys with a 6'11" wingspan. If one has super broad shoulders and chest and the other has super narrow shoulders and chest, the one with narrow shoulders / chest is going to have a longer reach when reaching out in front of them and reaching above their head.. That's why the NFL...while yes measuring both wingspan and arm length...uses arm length as a more relevant benchmark for length for offensive lineman....because they play with their arms out in front of them most often and for receivers because they are often reaching above their head.

This would warrant the comment of wingspan underestimating length of players with narrow shoulders / chest. And to be clear, I'm not the original guy that you were arguing this point with.

Not to be rude, but this is basic body proportions and biomechanics

I think your mistake was taking on argument someone else made who himself didn't want to continue because the premise was bad from the beginning.

First of all, wingspan is not overstating or understating anything. It's a neutral measurement that's meant to measure width of shoulders + arms. You could just as easily say short arms understate wingspan but you're not, and we both know why.

Wingspan is measuring length of shoulders+arm length when the individual is stretching their arms wide. In that context, it doesn't matter if someone has 6-11 wingspan with shorter or longer arms, a 6-11 wingspan is a 6-11 wingspan. Nothing is being "understated".

And again, many people make the argument that wingspan is more important for NFL OTs than arm length because they have to deal with wide-angled speed rushers and OTs need to have the wingspan to deal with them. Will Campbell who was just drafted 4th overall for the Pats - his biggest issue is the wingspan not arm length and this has been highlighted by a lot of people that understand what it means for OTs (wingspan much less relevant for interior OLs).

[RipCity71252]

I haven't seen you explain how wingspan "understates length" anywhere. Try again.

and here are NFL combine measurements, wingspan listed right next arm length for all prospects, and in some positional cases it's more important: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/full-list-of-nfl-combine-2025-measurements-and-40-yard-dash-times-plus-winners-and-losers-from-every-position/

Take two guys with a 6'11" wingspan. If one has super broad shoulders and chest and the other has super narrow shoulders and chest, the one with narrow shoulders / chest is going to have a longer reach when reaching out in front of them and reaching above their head.. That's why the NFL...while yes measuring both wingspan and arm length...uses arm length as a more relevant benchmark for length for offensive lineman....because they play with their arms out in front of them most often and for receivers because they are often reaching above their head.

This would warrant the comment of wingspan underestimating length of players with narrow shoulders / chest. And to be clear, I'm not the original guy that you were arguing this point with.

Not to be rude, but this is basic body proportions and biomechanics

I think your mistake was taking on argument someone else made who himself didn't want to continue because the premise was bad from the beginning.

First of all, wingspan is not overstating or understating anything. It's a neutral measurement that's meant to measure width of shoulders + arms. You could just as easily say short arms understate wingspan but you're not, and we both know why.

Wingspan is measuring length of shoulders+arm length when the individual is stretching their arms wide. In that context, it doesn't matter if someone has 6-11 wingspan with shorter or longer arms, a 6-11 wingspan is a 6-11 wingspan. Nothing is being "understated".

And again, many people make the argument that wingspan is more important for NFL OTs than arm length because they have to deal with wide-angled speed rushers and OTs need to have the wingspan to deal with them. Will Campbell who was just drafted 4th overall for the Pats - his biggest issue is the wingspan not arm length and this has been highlighted by a lot of people that understand what it means for OTs (wingspan much less relevant for interior OLs).

Singularly no, but wingspan underestimates the length of your arms when in any other orientation other than stretched out to the side of you if you have a narrow chest/shoulders. That's all previous poster was trying to say.

I'm sorry if you don't understand that. And maybe you do and you just refuse acknowledge it so we can move this conversation on because I can't put it any more plainly. Its why guys with the same height and wingspan can have vastly different standing reaches.

But continue on with the attitude if you wish.

[clyde21]

Take two guys with a 6'11" wingspan. If one has super broad shoulders and chest and the other has super narrow shoulders and chest, the one with narrow shoulders / chest is going to have a longer reach when reaching out in front of them and reaching above their head.. That's why the NFL...while yes measuring both wingspan and arm length...uses arm length as a more relevant benchmark for length for offensive lineman....because they play with their arms out in front of them most often and for receivers because they are often reaching above their head.

This would warrant the comment of wingspan underestimating length of players with narrow shoulders / chest. And to be clear, I'm not the original guy that you were arguing this point with.

Not to be rude, but this is basic body proportions and biomechanics

I think your mistake was taking on argument someone else made who himself didn't want to continue because the premise was bad from the beginning.

First of all, wingspan is not overstating or understating anything. It's a neutral measurement that's meant to measure width of shoulders + arms. You could just as easily say short arms understate wingspan but you're not, and we both know why.

Wingspan is measuring length of shoulders+arm length when the individual is stretching their arms wide. In that context, it doesn't matter if someone has 6-11 wingspan with shorter or longer arms, a 6-11 wingspan is a 6-11 wingspan. Nothing is being "understated".

And again, many people make the argument that wingspan is more important for NFL OTs than arm length because they have to deal with wide-angled speed rushers and OTs need to have the wingspan to deal with them. Will Campbell who was just drafted 4th overall for the Pats - his biggest issue is the wingspan not arm length and this has been highlighted by a lot of people that understand what it means for OTs (wingspan much less relevant for interior OLs).

Wingspan underestimates the length of your arms when in any other orientation other than stretched out to the side of you if you have a narrow chest/shoulders.

I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I can't put any more plainly.

But continue on with the attitude if you wish

Wingspan doesn't do anything other than measure the length of your shoulders+arm when stretched out to the side. That's literally it. It's not under or overstating any other metric.

if your argument is that *wide shoulders* understate straight/standing reach, you'd still be largely wrong but at least we can have that debate. but wingspan is not doing anything other than what it's supposed to do.

re: standing reach metrics at the combine, they are trash anyways considering half the players tank this measurement to get ahead on the vert, so even if you want to use standing reach to prove the "understated" argument you can't.

[CptCrunch]

All of these measurement deltas, gaming are just silly. NBA should just be publishing calibrated photographic measurements. You cannot game a photograph with computer assisted pixel measurements. You know how swimming and athletic events use high speed cameras for precise measurements.

Take 3 photographs on a calibrated background (literally a wall with scale markers).

Standing upright (height without shoes)
Wingspan (which then allows for arm and shoulder measurement)
One arm reach (measures standing reach)

This also solves the issue of afro/hairdo gaming, wingspan/reach gaming, just start measuring eye levels to calibrate heights across prospects. If the NBA doesn't want to do this, a team should literally do this for all the prospects they bring in. Just 3 photographs, takes 2 minutes to finish max.

[RipCity71252]

I think your mistake was taking on argument someone else made who himself didn't want to continue because the premise was bad from the beginning.

First of all, wingspan is not overstating or understating anything. It's a neutral measurement that's meant to measure width of shoulders + arms. You could just as easily say short arms understate wingspan but you're not, and we both know why.

Wingspan is measuring length of shoulders+arm length when the individual is stretching their arms wide. In that context, it doesn't matter if someone has 6-11 wingspan with shorter or longer arms, a 6-11 wingspan is a 6-11 wingspan. Nothing is being "understated".

And again, many people make the argument that wingspan is more important for NFL OTs than arm length because they have to deal with wide-angled speed rushers and OTs need to have the wingspan to deal with them. Will Campbell who was just drafted 4th overall for the Pats - his biggest issue is the wingspan not arm length and this has been highlighted by a lot of people that understand what it means for OTs (wingspan much less relevant for interior OLs).

Wingspan underestimates the length of your arms when in any other orientation other than stretched out to the side of you if you have a narrow chest/shoulders.

I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I can't put any more plainly.

But continue on with the attitude if you wish

Wingspan doesn't do anything other than measure the length of your shoulders+arm when stretched out to the side. That's literally it. It's not under or overstating any other metric.

if your argument is that *wide shoulders* understate straight/standing reach, you'd still be largely wrong but at least we can have that debate. but wingspan is not doing anything other than what it's supposed to do.

re: standing reach metrics at the combine, they are trash anyways considering half the players tank this measurement to get ahead on the vert, so even if you want to use standing reach to prove the "understated" argument you can't.

Haha. Yeah, I'm done. You're explaining a point that I've already made previously to prove a point I'm not disagreeing with.

Yes, wingspan is wingspan. You win the argument no one was having with you.

[clyde21]

Wingspan underestimates the length of your arms when in any other orientation other than stretched out to the side of you if you have a narrow chest/shoulders.

I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I can't put any more plainly.

But continue on with the attitude if you wish

Wingspan doesn't do anything other than measure the length of your shoulders+arm when stretched out to the side. That's literally it. It's not under or overstating any other metric.

if your argument is that *wide shoulders* understate straight/standing reach, you'd still be largely wrong but at least we can have that debate. but wingspan is not doing anything other than what it's supposed to do.

re: standing reach metrics at the combine, they are trash anyways considering half the players tank this measurement to get ahead on the vert, so even if you want to use standing reach to prove the "understated" argument you can't.

Haha. Yeah, I'm done. You're explaining a point that I've already made previously to prove a point I'm not disagreeing with.

Yes, wingspan is wingspan. You win the argument no one was having with you.

This is the original point that I was disagreeing with:

Guys like Noa Essengue, Mikal Bridges, and Tayshaun Prince have narrow shoulders and therefore have wingspans that understate their "length."

This doesn't make any sense. Narrow shoulders understate wingspan if anything. Wingspan is a measurement on its own and it doesn't under or overstate any other measurement.

and it sounds like at this point you agree with me, so cool

[JMAC3]

The internet: where if you get proven wrong you change the topic instead of admitting you learned something

[RipCity71252]

Wingspan doesn't do anything other than measure the length of your shoulders+arm when stretched out to the side. That's literally it. It's not under or overstating any other metric.

if your argument is that *wide shoulders* understate straight/standing reach, you'd still be largely wrong but at least we can have that debate. but wingspan is not doing anything other than what it's supposed to do.

re: standing reach metrics at the combine, they are trash anyways considering half the players tank this measurement to get ahead on the vert, so even if you want to use standing reach to prove the "understated" argument you can't.

Haha. Yeah, I'm done. You're explaining a point that I've already made previously to prove a point I'm not disagreeing with.

Yes, wingspan is wingspan. You win the argument no one was having with you.

This is the original point that I was disagreeing with:

Guys like Noa Essengue, Mikal Bridges, and Tayshaun Prince have narrow shoulders and therefore have wingspans that understate their "length."

This doesn't make any sense. Narrow shoulders understate wingspan if anything. Wingspan is a measurement on its own and it doesn't under or overstate any other measurement.

and it sounds like at this point you agree with me, so cool

I can't believe I'm re-explaining this. Narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length. That is the length the previous poster was referring to. I know this because he and oned my posts.

If two players have the same wingspan but one has a very narrow chest and shoulder region. Who do you think has a longer arm length?

And please just answer the question.

[clyde21]

Haha. Yeah, I'm done. You're explaining a point that I've already made previously to prove a point I'm not disagreeing with.

Yes, wingspan is wingspan. You win the argument no one was having with you.

This is the original point that I was disagreeing with:

Guys like Noa Essengue, Mikal Bridges, and Tayshaun Prince have narrow shoulders and therefore have wingspans that understate their "length."

This doesn't make any sense. Narrow shoulders understate wingspan if anything. Wingspan is a measurement on its own and it doesn't under or overstate any other measurement.

and it sounds like at this point you agree with me, so cool

I can't believe I'm re-explaining this. Narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length. That is the length the previous poster was referring to. I know this because he and oned my posts.

If two players have the same wingspan but one has a very narrow chest and shoulder region. Who do you think has a longer arm length?

And please just answer the question.

Do you think you're doing something with that question? No **** the dude with the smaller shoulders would have the longer arms in that scenario. You're not adding any new ideas to the conversation here my guy.

And no, narrow shoulders don't understate arm length because arm length is measured FROM the shoulder. That's why wingspan measurements exist because they *include* shoulders in the measurements. If anything, it's the other way around, narrow shoulders understate wingspan. Wingspan doesn't under or overstate anything on its own.

It's honestly weird af what you're arguing but again that's what happens when you hijack a conversation without understanding what was being argued

[RipCity71252]

This is the original point that I was disagreeing with:



This doesn't make any sense. Narrow shoulders understate wingspan if anything. Wingspan is a measurement on its own and it doesn't under or overstate any other measurement.

and it sounds like at this point you agree with me, so cool

I can't believe I'm re-explaining this. Narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length. That is the length the previous poster was referring to. I know this because he and oned my posts.

If two players have the same wingspan but one has a very narrow chest and shoulder region. Who do you think has a longer arm length?

And please just answer the question.

Do you think you're doing something with that question? No **** the dude with the smaller shoulders would have the longer arms in that scenario. You're not adding any new ideas to the conversation here my guy.

And no, narrow shoulders don't understand arm length because arm length is measured FROM the shoulder. That's why wingspan measurements exist because they *include* shoulders in the measurements.

It's honestly weird af what you're arguing but again that's what happens when you hijack a conversation without understanding what was being argued

Sorry I meant narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length when referring to just a wingspan measurement.

I'm sorry my previous post didn't already make that clear.

But hey we're getting somewhere.

So if two guys have the same wingspan but one has longer arms would you say that wingspan measurement of a player with a narrow chest and shoulder region is underestimating that player's length? Since players apply their length in many other ways other than with their arms out wide?

[clyde21]

I can't believe I'm re-explaining this. Narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length. That is the length the previous poster was referring to. I know this because he and oned my posts.

If two players have the same wingspan but one has a very narrow chest and shoulder region. Who do you think has a longer arm length?

And please just answer the question.

Do you think you're doing something with that question? No **** the dude with the smaller shoulders would have the longer arms in that scenario. You're not adding any new ideas to the conversation here my guy.

And no, narrow shoulders don't understand arm length because arm length is measured FROM the shoulder. That's why wingspan measurements exist because they *include* shoulders in the measurements.

It's honestly weird af what you're arguing but again that's what happens when you hijack a conversation without understanding what was being argued

Sorry I meant narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length when referring to just a wingspan measurement.

I'm sorry my previous post didn't already make that clear.

But hey we're getting somewhere.

So if two guys have the same wingspan but one has longer arms would you say that wingspan measurement of a player with a narrow chest and shoulder region is underestimating that player's length? Since players apply their length in many other ways other than with their arms out wide?

yes, narrow shoulders can understate wingspan, no one ever argued that, but that wasn't what original argument was.

again, the original argument was this:

Guys like Noa Essengue, Mikal Bridges, and Tayshaun Prince have narrow shoulders and therefore have wingspans that understate their "length."

if the argument is narrow shoulders = shorter wingspan then we agree

if the argument is "wingspan understates length" then we don't agree.

wingspan is strictly a measurement of arm length + shoulder width. nothing more nothing less.

and it sounds like we agree

[RipCity71252]

Do you think you're doing something with that question? No **** the dude with the smaller shoulders would have the longer arms in that scenario. You're not adding any new ideas to the conversation here my guy.

And no, narrow shoulders don't understand arm length because arm length is measured FROM the shoulder. That's why wingspan measurements exist because they *include* shoulders in the measurements.

It's honestly weird af what you're arguing but again that's what happens when you hijack a conversation without understanding what was being argued

Sorry I meant narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length when referring to just a wingspan measurement.

I'm sorry my previous post didn't already make that clear.

But hey we're getting somewhere.

So if two guys have the same wingspan but one has longer arms would you say that wingspan measurement of a player with a narrow chest and shoulder region is underestimating that player's length? Since players apply their length in many other ways other than with their arms out wide?

yes, narrow shoulders can understate wingspan, no one ever argued that, but that wasn't what original argument was.

again, the original argument was this:

Guys like Noa Essengue, Mikal Bridges, and Tayshaun Prince have narrow shoulders and therefore have wingspans that understate their "length."

if the argument is narrow shoulders = shorter wingspan then we agree

if the argument is "wingspan understates length" then we don't agree.

wingspan is strictly a measurement of arm length + shoulder width. nothing more nothing less.

and it sounds like we agree

We don't and the disconnect is that I'm still not sure you understand the point I'm making.

My argument is that wingspan understates length when comparing two players of equal height and wingspans, but vastly different frames.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Sorry I meant narrow chest and shoulders understate arm length when referring to just a wingspan measurement.

I'm sorry my previous post didn't already make that clear.

But hey we're getting somewhere.

So if two guys have the same wingspan but one has longer arms would you say that wingspan measurement of a player with a narrow chest and shoulder region is underestimating that player's length? Since players apply their length in many other ways other than with their arms out wide?

yes, narrow shoulders can understate wingspan, no one ever argued that, but that wasn't what original argument was.

again, the original argument was this:

Guys like Noa Essengue, Mikal Bridges, and Tayshaun Prince have narrow shoulders and therefore have wingspans that understate their "length."

if the argument is narrow shoulders = shorter wingspan then we agree

if the argument is "wingspan understates length" then we don't agree.

wingspan is strictly a measurement of arm length + shoulder width. nothing more nothing less.

and it sounds like we agree

We don't and the disconnect is that I'm still not sure you understand the point I'm making.

My argument is that wingspan understates length when comparing two players of equal height and wingspans, but vastly different frames.

I think his point is a 6'10" wingspan in a 6'10" wingspan regardless of how wide a players torso is. Yes, technically, the player with the wider torso and same wingspan will have shorter arms, but it doesn't matter because they're still capable of taking up 6'10" of space left to right. However, it does mean that wider torso guy will likely have a shorter reach so in that aspect there is a difference. This doesn't matter imho for wings and guards like it does for bigs.