Dylan Harper

[vincecarter4pres]

First off, DLo was a great prospect. The fact that he never fully lived up to expectations in the NBA does not mean that a prospect comparable to DLo coming out of college isn't a great prospect.

Second, the comparison really does not make a ton of sense when it comes to athleticism. DLo was so highly sought after in large part because of his projected shooting ability (in addition to his creative playmaking). That's not what people expect from Harper.

The difference in terms of athleticism is easily illustrated by two simple metrics. First, Harper's FTr is 0.419 compared to DLo's 0.303. Second and most notably, Harper's 2P% is 57.4 compared to DLo's 47.9. That's almost 10 percentage points difference, and that's with DLo being the better midrange shooter. The difference stems from Harper getting to the rim a lot more often and converting a lot better when he's there, and that's a function of his athleticism (size, strength, burst).

So no, Harper is not comparable to DLo as an athlete. Does that make him a better prospect? That's debatable – but not because Harper isn't a great prospect but because DLo was a great prospect, too.

Said perfectly.

[Upperclass]

Harper is not a great athlete, but DLo? C’mon now. Everyone knew DLo was getting by with size and craftiness at OSU and was going to struggle getting into the paint in the pros. Harper is not going to have that problem. I think he’ll have some other issues, but that’s not one of them.

Would actually say Harper indeed is a great athlete. In the same sense Harden, young prime D Will, Fox, etc., were/are great athletes.

He just isn’t a jump out of the gym freak like Vince Carter or Giannis.

He’s not top of the league elite tier, but he’s gonna be way up there.

He’s beyond a Jamal Murray, who is an above average, but not standout athlete.

We'll see. Harper has nothing in common with those athletes other than 2 of the 3 also being left-handed. Seems like a guy whos best performances will be on low expectation teams.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Dlo with a driven mindset and desire to get into the paint is an All-NBA player.

[vincecarter4pres]

Dlo with a driven mindset and desire to get into the paint is an All-NBA player.

Let alone DLo’s athleticism was always considered super suspect, especially for a lead guard.

He makes Andre Miller look like Baron Davis.

[vincecarter4pres]

Harper is not a great athlete, but DLo? C’mon now. Everyone knew DLo was getting by with size and craftiness at OSU and was going to struggle getting into the paint in the pros. Harper is not going to have that problem. I think he’ll have some other issues, but that’s not one of them.

Would actually say Harper indeed is a great athlete. In the same sense Harden, young prime D Will, Fox, etc., were/are great athletes.

He just isn’t a jump out of the gym freak like Vince Carter or Giannis.

He’s not top of the league elite tier, but he’s gonna be way up there.

He’s beyond a Jamal Murray, who is an above average, but not standout athlete.

We'll see. Harper has nothing in common with those athletes other than 2 of the 3 also being left-handed. Seems like a guy whos best performances will be on low expectation teams.

He actually has a lot in common with them.

[tontoz]

Harper is who everyone thinks Kon is. Slow, cant turn the corner, overrated shooter, mediocre, unwilling passer. Just a dude whos game looks close enough to Hardens to go top 5.

3/4 court sprint

Harper 3.16
Kon 3.35

Lane agility time

Harper 11.07
Kon 11.92 (yikes)

Harper routinely beat the best defenders off the dribble. He absolutely shredded Alabama when they tried to single cover him. After that he got doubled a lot but frequently still got past them.

[tontoz]

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[CptCrunch]

Harper is the best finisher since Uncle Drew. Irving had a lot more juice but is quite a bit smaller.

[tmorgan]

He’s def gonna get to the rim and is thus a nice fit with Wemby. Not so great with the rest of the Spurs roster, tho, particularly whatever guard he’s playing with (Fox or Castle) and Sochan. Spurs really need to make some moves and get some snipers.

[azcatz11]

He’s def gonna get to the rim and is thus a nice fit with Wemby. Not so great with the rest of the Spurs roster, tho, particularly whatever guard he’s playing with (Fox or Castle) and Sochan. Spurs really need to make some moves and get some snipers.

They should trade Fox. He doesn’t align with the timeline and he makes a lot anyways. Who can they get for Fox? Tyler Herro?

[Bloodbather]

He’s def gonna get to the rim and is thus a nice fit with Wemby. Not so great with the rest of the Spurs roster, tho, particularly whatever guard he’s playing with (Fox or Castle) and Sochan. Spurs really need to make some moves and get some snipers.

They should trade Fox. He doesn’t align with the timeline and he makes a lot anyways. Who can they get for Fox? Tyler Herro?

They should go for the two timelines approach, imo. Wemby is already good enough to compete. If they can get KD without giving up Harper and Castle, for #14 and Vassell for example, they'll be in great shape.

[Bucks4005]

Does anyone thing a castle could play heavy minutes at SF. I mean, he’s got decent bulk, could just commit to the full on OG lineup like OKC with say a Fox-Harper-Castle lineup. I mean, part of why it works for OKC is Williams is able to play PF, SF, etc. despite being SG sized which allows them to do that, but wanted to hear thoughts on how people think am3 G starting lineup would work? Maybe you get a veteran like Lopez for spacing and bulk to bang down low to allow Wemby to play more PF at times like Holmgren, etc

Or do people think it’d just end up more as Harper or Castle as the 6th man as the primary backup guard, stay bigger with a consistent SF/PF?

[Dat2U]

Does anyone thing a castle could play heavy minutes at SF. I mean, he’s got decent bulk, could just commit to the full on OG lineup like OKC with say a Fox-Harper-Castle lineup. I mean, part of why it works for OKC is Williams is able to play PF, SF, etc. despite being SG sized which allows them to do that, but wanted to hear thoughts on how people think am3 G starting lineup would work? Maybe you get a veteran like Lopez for spacing and bulk to bang down low to allow Wemby to play more PF at times like Holmgren, etc

Or do people think it’d just end up more as Harper or Castle as the 6th man as the primary backup guard, stay bigger with a consistent SF/PF?

Harper is clearly the 2nd best player in the draft but the fit with Fox, Castle & Sochan feels clunky at best and potentially development stunting at worst. Castle, Fox, Sochan & Vasell were already an awkward fit due to spacing & guys needing the ball. That only gets tougher when you add yet another elite on-the-ball slashing threat.

If the Spurs LOVE Harper, they'll need to retool the roster around him & Wemby and move off at least 2 of the 3 (Fox, Sochan & Castle) to add off the ball spacing instead.

Castle is my biggest concern because he needs to ball in his hands and his value and usefulness is significantly muted off the ball. He's not a stand in the corner guy at all, which what he becomes in a lineup with Harper & Fox.

[Bornstellar]

Does anyone thing a castle could play heavy minutes at SF. I mean, he’s got decent bulk, could just commit to the full on OG lineup like OKC with say a Fox-Harper-Castle lineup. I mean, part of why it works for OKC is Williams is able to play PF, SF, etc. despite being SG sized which allows them to do that, but wanted to hear thoughts on how people think am3 G starting lineup would work? Maybe you get a veteran like Lopez for spacing and bulk to bang down low to allow Wemby to play more PF at times like Holmgren, etc

Or do people think it’d just end up more as Harper or Castle as the 6th man as the primary backup guard, stay bigger with a consistent SF/PF?

I think Castle can eat minutes at SF. Maybe not full time, but he is 6'6", pretty strong, and has great defensive instincts/awareness. I think we will see a lot of 3 guard lineups this year with Fox/Harper/Castle on the court together

[ReggiesKnicks]

The problem with Fox/Harper/Castle minutes is Castle sucks at shooting, Fox is average at best and Harper is going to be a rookie.

[tmorgan]

The problem with Fox/Harper/Castle minutes is Castle sucks at shooting, Fox is average at best and Harper is going to be a rookie.

I suppose it’s fine if the Spurs are content with another two years of development and first round exits at best.

I’d ask Wemby if that’s cool first, though. He’s the franchise.

Castle or Fox would net a solid return. Sochan would get something, and so would Vassell. There’s a lot of potential moves to make to bring in shooting, but who knows how patient San Antonio plans to be? I’d do something, at least maneuver for one shooter, right away. Castle and Harper aren’t going to develop optimally with a packed paint.

A package for Trey Murphy seems like a really good idea.

[Bucks4005]

The problem with Fox/Harper/Castle minutes is Castle sucks at shooting, Fox is average at best and Harper is going to be a rookie.

I suppose it’s fine if the Spurs are content with another two years of development and first round exits at best.

I’d ask Wemby if that’s cool first, though. He’s the franchise.

Castle or Fox would net a solid return. Sochan would get something, and so would Vassell. There’s a lot of potential moves to make to bring in shooting, but who knows how patient San Antonio plans to be? I’d do something, at least maneuver for one shooter, right away. Castle and Harper aren’t going to develop optimally with a packed paint.

A package for Trey Murphy seems like a really good idea.

I mean, your drafting top,5 rookies. You’re saying the Spurs should complain about 2 years of development? Isn’t that to be expected? I mean, I get you can compete right away, but why would you rush it? This also presupposes Castle will never be a good shooter. I mean, he’s a rookie, it could go either way. Same with Harper. If both become league average shooters, with their physical gifts and driving games, that team looks ridiculously different.

Like, Aaron Gordon was basically a C on offense in college. Would anyone have expected him to develop a 3 point shot? Yet once he had, the defense along with that made him invaluable to a championship team. Moving on from young players because they don’t fit right now seem dumb, especially over something like shooting which can improve. Sochan even is an example, his 3 point shoot hasn’t come around yet, but he was able fix being a complete liability from the line to at least serviceable. Who’s to say he can’t extend that range out?

Plus, keeping Castle, Sochan, Harper, keeps the most valuable thing for a contender. Cost controlled contracts with the upside to develop. If Castle does develop his shot to a league average shooter next year, how valuable is that at a team? You may say “yea, but eventually you have to pay him,” but that circular logic applies to the shooter as well. The onky time it doesn’t is when they can only shoot, but don’t provide the other things Castle provides, like defense.

[tmorgan]

The problem with Fox/Harper/Castle minutes is Castle sucks at shooting, Fox is average at best and Harper is going to be a rookie.

I suppose it’s fine if the Spurs are content with another two years of development and first round exits at best.

I’d ask Wemby if that’s cool first, though. He’s the franchise.

Castle or Fox would net a solid return. Sochan would get something, and so would Vassell. There’s a lot of potential moves to make to bring in shooting, but who knows how patient San Antonio plans to be? I’d do something, at least maneuver for one shooter, right away. Castle and Harper aren’t going to develop optimally with a packed paint.

A package for Trey Murphy seems like a really good idea.

I mean, your drafting top,5 rookies. You’re saying the Spurs should complain about 2 years of development? Isn’t that to be expected? I mean, I get you can compete right away, but why would you rush it? This also presupposes Castle will never be a good shooter. I mean, he’s a rookie, it could go either way. Same with Harper. If both become league average shooters, with their physical gifts and driving games, that team looks ridiculously different.

Like, Aaron Gordon was basically a C on offense in college. Would anyone have expected him to develop a 3 point shot? Yet once he had, the defense along with that made him invaluable to a championship team. Moving on from young players because they don’t fit right now seem dumb, especially over something like shooting which can improve. Sochan even is an example, his 3 point shoot hasn’t come around yet, but he was able fix being a complete liability from the line to at least serviceable. Who’s to say he can’t extend that range out?

Plus, keeping Castle, Sochan, Harper, keeps the most valuable thing for a contender. Cost controlled contracts with the upside to develop. If Castle does develop his shot to a league average shooter next year, how valuable is that at a team? You may say “yea, but eventually you have to pay him,” but that circular logic applies to the shooter as well. The onky time it doesn’t is when they can only shoot, but don’t provide the other things Castle provides, like defense.

If you’re saying “anything can happen”, you’re right, anything can happen. Beyond that, the team clearly needs more shooting. Roll the dice on development, or make a move. That’s the choice here.

[Bucks4005]

I suppose it’s fine if the Spurs are content with another two years of development and first round exits at best.

I’d ask Wemby if that’s cool first, though. He’s the franchise.

Castle or Fox would net a solid return. Sochan would get something, and so would Vassell. There’s a lot of potential moves to make to bring in shooting, but who knows how patient San Antonio plans to be? I’d do something, at least maneuver for one shooter, right away. Castle and Harper aren’t going to develop optimally with a packed paint.

A package for Trey Murphy seems like a really good idea.

I mean, your drafting top,5 rookies. You’re saying the Spurs should complain about 2 years of development? Isn’t that to be expected? I mean, I get you can compete right away, but why would you rush it? This also presupposes Castle will never be a good shooter. I mean, he’s a rookie, it could go either way. Same with Harper. If both become league average shooters, with their physical gifts and driving games, that team looks ridiculously different.

Like, Aaron Gordon was basically a C on offense in college. Would anyone have expected him to develop a 3 point shot? Yet once he had, the defense along with that made him invaluable to a championship team. Moving on from young players because they don’t fit right now seem dumb, especially over something like shooting which can improve. Sochan even is an example, his 3 point shoot hasn’t come around yet, but he was able fix being a complete liability from the line to at least serviceable. Who’s to say he can’t extend that range out?

Plus, keeping Castle, Sochan, Harper, keeps the most valuable thing for a contender. Cost controlled contracts with the upside to develop. If Castle does develop his shot to a league average shooter next year, how valuable is that at a team? You may say “yea, but eventually you have to pay him,” but that circular logic applies to the shooter as well. The onky time it doesn’t is when they can only shoot, but don’t provide the other things Castle provides, like defense.

If you’re saying “anything can happen”, you’re right, anything can happen. Beyond that, the team clearly needs more shooting. Roll the dice on development, or make a move. That’s the choice here.

Yea, I agree. There a risk, but no moves have no risk. I just don’t think you can look at this Spurs team and just wheel and deal like it’s 2K and expect that to be a solution.

Personally, I see both sides, but I just learn towards cost controlled rookies as the way to improve. Like, if Castle and Harper become All-Star caliber players, even if the fit isn’t the best, the talent outweighing the opponents make me feel it’s more likely to jump into an elite team than focusing on the perfect fit.