Anyone think this is true?(hope it is)

[cmaff051]

The question is how many Santana-like years Santana has left, not how many Hughes has left. Santana is coming off a bad year (for him), and there is no assurance that he will be as good as Hughes going forward, or for how long.

There is no assurance than Santana will be as good as Hughes going forward? Are you joking? What has Phil Hughes ever proven?

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



This trade makes us infinitely better for the next 5 years. The only pitcher we give away is Hughes and we replace him with a horse who is still in his prime. Sorry for not caring about 10 years down the road, but that's a crappy reason as to why we shouldn't trade for Santana. Melky is at his highest value ever, he's not any good, and while we will lose a decent fielding centerfielder, we will make up the difference in better pitching.

I really don't think you realize how much of a burden having 3 pitchers with inning limitations will be next year. And I don't think you realize that the learning curve for young pitchers isn't always the same. You are assuming that Hughes will develop into a frontline pitcher. It might not happen.

That shortsightedness is the reaosn we haven't been in a good position to win a WS since 2000. We never care about 10 years from now, the reason we're a win now team as you said is because we never allow the team to become anything else. We've been a win now team for years, and if we continue to look to add the big star, we'll be a win now team for many more years. Sad thing is, we haven't been winning. Maybe that means that our way doesn't work? Just an observation.

[Curmudgeon]

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There is no assurance than Santana will be as good as Hughes going forward? Are you joking? What has Phil Hughes ever proven?

No one has proved anything going forward. Santana was a great pitcher two years ago. That means nothing.

How much to you think Hughes ought to have proven at age 21? When Santana was 21 he was 2-3 with a 6.49 ERA.

[#1knickfan]

No one has proved anything going forward. Santana was a great pitcher two years ago. That means nothing.

Try a great pitcher this past season.

It sounds like you think Santana was not great last year. You can

[PR07]

As for how to replace Melky, I

[#1knickfan]

I agree. I think Patterson might be an interesting replacement for Melky. I just hope we get Santana so we could take that chance.

[Curmudgeon]

Is this the same Corey Patterson who is (1) 5 years older than Melky Cabrera, (2) struck out 168 times in 2004, 142 times in 2002 and 118 times in 2005 while batting .215, and (3) has a career OBP that is nearly half a run lower than Cabrera's?

No thanks.

[cmaff051]

Is this the same Corey Patterson than is a 10x better fielder than Melky Cabrera? Is this the same Corey Patterson that isn't good enough to package in a trade for Johan Santana? Yes it is.

Melky has more value than Corey Patterson despite being similar players, which tels you he is being overvalued given his skillset, which means we should sell high if we can.

[Curmudgeon]

Well I never watched the Cubs much, but I don't recall Patterson winning any gold gloves or anything like that. And Cabrera did have 16 assists last year, which was among the league leaders.

So I think "10x" might be a slight exaggeration.

[nykgeneralmanager]

What is better about Patterson than Melky? He is a career .258 hitter with a career .298 OBP. For a team that is all about guys getting on and keeping the line moving, he will kill us. A .298 OBP is like having the pitcher hit 9th. And he isn't necessarily a better defender, he is just faster. His arm isn't any good. Melky has at least some room for improvement (how much can be debated). Melky can have years of a .300 average and .350 OBP, that and his arm are for more valuable than Patterson's 30 steals, which is all he will provide.

[PR07]

I'm not saying Patterson is better than Melky Cabrera, but there production was about the same last season. It wasn't like this was a product of the NL or anything like that either as Patterson put up those numbers in the AL East. If we want a stopgap for one or two seasons before Austin Jackson is ready, I think we could easily sign Corey Patterson and not lose a whole lot. I like Melky, but his numbers aren't exactly off the charts.

[Chach]

RotoWorld

According to the New York Post, the Red Sox remain "the strong favorite" to acquire Johan Santana.
The newspaper speculates that both "New York teams remain interested," but the Yankees "have become more entrenched in their unwillingness to pay the price" that includes Phil Hughes and a huge contract extension. The Yankees reportedly "have not seriously discussed players with the Twins" since the winter meetings.
Source: New York Post

So I'd have to say, no, it's not true. mahalo
~Chach~

[Wade2k6]

I'm not saying Patterson is better than Melky Cabrera, but there production was about the same last season. It wasn't like this was a product of the NL or anything like that either as Patterson put up those numbers in the AL East. If we want a stopgap for one or two seasons before Austin Jackson is ready, I think we could easily sign Corey Patterson and not lose a whole lot. I like Melky, but his numbers aren't exactly off the charts.

Yeah, his numbers aren't exactly off the charts, but he seems to be a very good fit with the Yankees. The yankees need players like Melky if they want to win. Keep Melky for the 2 years til Jackson comes up, then move him to LF with Jackson in CF. Keeps together the young OF'ers of Melky, Tabata and Jackson.

[VinnyTheMick]

RotoWorld

According to the New York Post, the Red Sox remain "the strong favorite" to acquire Johan Santana.
The newspaper speculates that both "New York teams remain interested," but the Yankees "have become more entrenched in their unwillingness to pay the price" that includes Phil Hughes and a huge contract extension. The Yankees reportedly "have not seriously discussed players with the Twins" since the winter meetings.
Source: New York Post

So I'd have to say, no, it's not true. mahalo
~Chach~

I'd have to say that was reported midweek.

mahalo

[Chach]

According to Rotoworld, it came out two days after this thread was started. Rotoworld is pretty quick about this stuff and if you follow the link to the actual article, the article is dated December 28th. If you follow my link to Santana's page on rotoworld, you'll see at the bottom of the page the news blip about the Twinkies "lowering" their demands and willing to accept Marquez. That story was from the 26th. So no, that story was pretty recent. mahalo
~Chach~

[VinnyTheMick]

According to Rotoworld, it came out two days after this thread was started. Rotoworld is pretty quick about this stuff and if you follow the link to the actual article, the article is dated December 28th. If you follow my link to Santana's page on rotoworld, you'll see at the bottom of the page the news blip about the Twinkies "lowering" their demands and willing to accept Marquez. That story was from the 26th. So no, that story was pretty recent. mahalo
~Chach~

26th would be midweek, no?

Mahalo




...just breakin' balls

[Chach]

I think I'm confused. Yeah, the article that started this thread came out midweek, definitely. The article I quoted came out on the 28th, which is the end of the week and after the original article for this thread.

Honestly, there hasn't been any new news on this situation in weeks. Every news story that is being leaked is the same stuff from the Winter Meetings. mahalo
~Chach~

[moocow007]

I'm with the group that will pass. Honestly don't believe the Red Sox are serious at all and is doing nothing more than helping the Twins try to squeeze the Yanks.

Best case for NY is for the Twins to move him to the Dodgers who also have plenty of top pitching prospects that the Twins appear to be wanting in return for Santana.